BLU-RAY SALES THREAD: Put all sales figures and comments here! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:18 PM
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For the better part of last year this forum was filled with threads discussing how HD DVD sales far exceeded BD sales. It's not fun anymore when the tables are turned is it?

Ok, the Intellectual Honesty Police are here to make an arrest. First of all, when the HD DVD supporters were doing the majority of their bragging, Bly-ray was 1000-3000 ranking points behind HD DVD, a very sizable difference. Now, HD DVD is around 200 points (give ot take) behind Blu-ray, which is far, far, far less of a difference, yet the gloating is as intense or more so. Furthermore, the first couple weeks in January, following CES, HD DVD was holding onto the lead consistently and at time was 100-150 points ahead and there was no braggadocio from them. Of course, the fallout from CES and the realization of Blu-ray momentum probably had something to do with that, but they reality is that the HD DVD gloating was at least commensurate with the advantage they held. Now, Blu-ray supporters see a little daylight between them and HD DVD and they are acting like they won the World Series. I can't help but see the parallel with how this hype matches the hype from the BDA. You do realize that HD DVD is still holding their own, don't you?, in spite of the ridiculous advantages in install base, studios, and CE's. Oh, I get it, sorry you don't have Universal also (at least yet) and another 2 or 3 million PS3 installs. Then you could brag some more. Ever think that maybe Blu-ray should have simply won on merit, and not required bludgeoning the enitre populace with the PS3, promotion, and hyperbole in order to win?
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post #62 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

I don't agree with what he and the others are doing, but there are clowns still posting that "PS3 is a failure," "Blu-ray will disappear any day now," and "BD studios will go neutral real soon."


Oh I know this.Despite me saying my opinion on this sub forum,the same holds true for the HD-DVD fanboys.I think there's a lot of un-necessary nonsense on both sides of the fence. I've never felt the need to bash a product I don't own in order to make me feel better about my choices.That reeks of insecurity to me.At the end of the day,spend your money however you see fit on whatever format(s) you choose,sit down with a beer and some freshly popped popcorn,and watch the damn movie.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #63 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

Oh I know this.Despite me saying my opinion on this sub forum,the same holds true for the HD-DVD fanboys.I think there's a lot of un-necessary nonsense on both sides of the fence. I've never felt the need to bash a product I don't own in order to make me feel better about my investment.That reeks of insecurity to me.At the end of the day,spend your money however you see fit on whatever format(s) you choose,sit down with a beer and some freshly popped popcorn,and watch the damn movie.

I agree.
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post #64 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Lampert View Post

Ever think that maybe Blu-ray should have simply won on merit, and not required bludgeoning the enitre populace with the PS3, promotion, and hyperbole in order to win?

It should have won on merit - since it was the clearly superior *format* - but it took the bludgeoning to get the job done. Well, the job's been done, and I for one am glad. When Universal starts releasing their films on BD, and HD DVD fanatics fully cognitize that the PQ advantages they lorded over with before were purely the results of studio-by-studio effort, perhaps then they can appreciate that sometimes 'just waiting' yields a result you rather live with in the long term than instant satisfaction. There must be something to it, else Toshiba themselves wouldn't be scrambling to try and get a 1.5x spinrate, TL51 version of their format ratified.
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post #65 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:25 PM
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only fanboys brats care about this anymore, I don't know why we still have to deal with these threads. Only a clueless HD-DVD buyer thought there would be more titles than BluRay after 1 year.
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post #66 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by dragonyeuw View Post

No they haven't ,I'd hate to be on this board the day EITHER format emerged victorious.

Yeah there are certain members on either side that have been so vocal, arrogant and insulting that they deserve some lambasting. Problem is, the told-u-sos will, most likely be aimed at the general public of the opposition.

I truly hope the winners will be civil, but I'm not holding my breath. Too much bad blood amongst people that would've otherwise been brothers in HT.

Personally, though I have not seen anyone on the BD side (and I've looked,) say that they will never, under any circumstances support HD DVD. While there are quite a few in the HD DVD camp that have publically stated the reverse.

What HT enthusiast could hate a corporation so much as to deny themselves so much? If this happens, I'm sure Sony will shed a tear for these lost souls.

JMHO


EDIT: Should've read more like...

...any circumstances, regardless of who finally wins, BUY anything HD DVD.
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post #67 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:34 PM
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There is nothing "honest" or "intellectual" in your fanboy rant.

What in my post is inaccurate or dishonest?
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post #68 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Lampert View Post

Ok, the Intellectual Honesty Police are here to make an arrest. First of all, when the HD DVD supporters were doing the majority of their bragging, Bly-ray was 1000-3000 ranking points behind HD DVD, a very sizable difference. Now, HD DVD is around 200 points (give ot take) behind Blu-ray, which is far, far, far less of a difference, yet the gloating is as intense or more so. Furthermore, the first couple weeks in January, following CES, HD DVD was holding onto the lead consistently and at time was 100-150 points ahead and there was no braggadocio from them. Of course, the fallout from CES and the realization of Blu-ray momentum probably had something to do with that, but they reality is that the HD DVD gloating was at least commensurate with the advantage they held. Now, Blu-ray supporters see a little daylight between them and HD DVD and they are acting like they won the World Series. I can't help but see the parallel with how this hype matches the hype from the BDA. You do realize that HD DVD is still holding their own, don't you?, in spite of the ridiculous advantages in install base, studios, and CE's. Oh, I get it, sorry you don't have Universal also (at least yet) and another 2 or 3 million PS3 installs. Then you could brag some more. Ever think that maybe Blu-ray should have simply won on merit, and not required bludgeoning the enitre populace with the PS3, promotion, and hyperbole in order to win?

Great Post
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post #69 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:42 PM
 
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I see HD DVD and BD coexisting the same way xbox 360 and PS3 will continue to exist as gaming formats. I believe the xbox right now is selling better since it has better titles, when PS3 releases better titles it will change....same thing going on here. IMO. Both formats are showing overall upward trend on dvdwars.

It's not like people are buying 90% of common titles on BD v. HD DVD. So, that tells me the problem is available titles rather than the format losing support. A format is losing support when the same title on one format sells way more than another.

On Ddvdwars it also doesn't help that the currently #2 title - Lucky # Slevin is out of stock.

Now that dvdempire has thrown their hat in the ranking game, we should have a poll on this forum to see how many people buy what % of their disks from what source. I suspect dvdempire is in the less than 5% range, with Amazon in the 20-30% range. But we should confirm that. The contribution of a source to overall sales is important if the data is deemed representative. The only reason I give credence to dvdwars is that Amazon is the largest seller of online media - books, CD, DVD in the world and is used by all demographics in al parts of the country.

Until I read a thread on AVS, I didn't even know about dvd empire!

Anyway, I believe the BDA will put out data to support their cause in Q1. Shouldn't videoscan also have data by the end of the month?
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post #70 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by krinkle View Post

Salesrank of top 10 products: Blu-ray pulling away



Number in the top 1000: Blu-ray pulling away



Number in the top 10000: Blu-ray pulling away



Number of titles available to order: Blu-ray pulling away



This is from a site that is notoriously biased in favor of HD-DVD and has been a favorite metric used in the past by the HD-DVD camp to show that their format would win the war. The surge has become so overwhelming that even dvdwars can no longer hide the Blu-ray sales rank domination.

Congratulations on picking the best format: Blu-ray

I predicted that by May Blu-ray would be pulling WAY ahead in sales, however at this rate it may not even take that long.

Come on guys, we are only 24 days into 2007, can we give it at least 6 months? These daily and weekly graphs are completely unreliable and do not depict a clear picture at all. It takes a larger amount of data in order to be more definite.

KEEP BOTH FORMATS ALIVE!
This translates to better PQ & AQ.
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post #71 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Sketcha View Post

Personally, though I have not seen anyone on the BD side (and I've looked,) say that they will never, under any circumstances support HD DVD. While there are quite a few in the HD DVD camp that have publically stated the reverse.


That may be but I also noticed a more important trend. There are numerous HD DVD exclusive supporters that have finally broke down and brought the PS3. However, I don't see many Blu-Ray supporters going the other way.

Does price really matter if you are buying a ticket on the Titanic?
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post #72 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

I see HD DVD and BD coexisting the same way xbox 360 and PS3 will continue to exist as gaming formats. I believe the xbox right now is selling better since it has better titles, when PS3 releases better titles it will change....same thing going on here. IMO. Both formats are showing overall upward trend on dvdwars.

It's not like people are buying 90% of common titles on BD v. HD DVD. So, that tells me the problem is available titles rather than the format losing support. A format is losing support when the same title on one format sells way more than another.

On Ddvdwars it also doesn't help that the currently #2 title - Lucky # Slevin is out of stock.

Now that dvdempire has thrown their hat in the ranking game, we should have a poll on this forum to see how many people buy what % of their disks from what source. I suspect dvdempire is in the less than 5% range, with Amazon in the 20-30% range. But we should confirm that. The contribution of a source to overall sales is important if the data is deemed representative. The only reason I give credence to dvdwars is that Amazon is the largest seller of online media - books, CD, DVD in the world and is used by all demographics in al parts of the country.

Until I read a thread on AVS, I didn't even know about dvd empire!

Anyway, I believe the BDA will put out data to support their cause in Q1. Shouldn't videoscan also have data by the end of the month?

Very true.

KEEP BOTH FORMATS ALIVE!
This translates to better PQ & AQ.
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post #73 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:47 PM
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Everyone just needs to remind themselves sometimes that HD-DVD makes BR better and vice versa.


It's the competition that is pushing these rivals to make a better product that we are satisfied with. Where would BR be right now if HDDVD never existed? and would HDDVD look as promising if BR hadn't had such a rocky start?

So don't be so quick to demand the war end for the sake of ending and don't be a fool and demonize a format. They're both quite awesome and I would be satisified if either won. I used to be more in the BR camp - but all bets are off for me personally now. I'll take the side of the movies I love. Which ever format and studio puts those out will be winner.
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post #74 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

I see HD DVD and BD coexisting the same way xbox 360 and PS3 will continue to exist as gaming formats.

The problem with this is, gamers know what's what. If you want to play Halo, you get a 360, if you want MGS it's the PS3, Zelda it's Wii, controllers are different, blah blah blah.

Only severe film nerds know what studio does every film they want to watch. So, either universal players need to take off soon, every studio needs to adopt the Warner total disc thingy, or people will have to become comfortable with buying two players and popping the right disc in the right player (this seems unlikely). What won't happen for the vast majority of people is that they will just buy one player and be happy missing out on 20% of the movies they want to watch, because they are in the 'other format'. They will be freakin' pissed off when they find out that there are movies that have been released that they can't watch (or they won't buy if they hear this first).

Anyway, my point is that I don't think it's anything like gaming.

As to the graphs, sales rank is not a linear measurement. The graphs need to be plotted as just sales. Actually, this will show the rise of BD even more dramatically I suspect.
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post #75 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

I see HD DVD and BD coexisting the same way xbox 360 and PS3 will continue to exist as gaming formats.

No way. The format war is over and BD has won. It's all about content. You have three times as many releases you get three times the shelf real estate. If you can't see the competition, soon enough it's not there.
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post #76 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 02:59 PM
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Yep, no way retailers want to waste floor space stocking multiple copies of movies for two formats, especially for the format that is supposed to replace DVD. That's why Best Buy is pushing for Total HD. This isn't the same as DVD-/+R's where you can just stack spindles of discs in the corner.
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post #77 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by fa8362 View Post

Is it available for pre-order?

Casino Royale has an Order Button, click DVD Empire for more info.
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post #78 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 03:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Krinkle View Post

This is from a site that is notoriously biased in favor of HD-DVD and has been a favorite metric used in the past by the HD-DVD camp to show that their format would win the war. The surge has become so overwhelming that even dvdwars can no longer hide the Blu-ray sales rank domination.

Congratulations on picking the best format: Blu-ray

I predicted that by May Blu-ray would be pulling WAY ahead in sales, however at this rate it may not even take that long.

It just cracks me up when someone protests that the numbers were somehow biased on the one hand and then when they change and reflect your beliefs you start a thread proclaiming that they are now accurate. Too damn funny.

You had a 50-50 chance and you got it right. Congratulations, your name should be Kreskin not Krinkle!

Look, I started as an HD DVD fanatic. I bought two HD A1s and own over 100 HD DVD titles. The DVD Wars numbers WERE refecting a buying trend AT THE TIME. Those numbers were a pretty good statistical sample (though not scientific) of what was happening in the marketplace just as they are NOW. Blu-ray is absolutely picking up steam. It is reflected in Amazon's numbers as well as the shelves in all the retail stores that I frequent. Something is definitely happening: PS3s are selling.

In fact, in an ironic way, I happen to believe that the lack of game support at this time has actually helped Blu-ray software sales. Those units would not be readily available for movie watchers if they were being snatched up left and right by gamers. The small amount of available gaming software is making the units accessible to home theater enthusiasts as stand alone Blu-ray players and giving Sony the time to catch up with production before a glut of gaming software is released. Everyone that wants a PS3, both gamers and home theater enthusiasts will be able to get a PS3 by Christmas 2007. It has basically nullified the price advantage that HD DVD could have had for stand alone units.

Today's official announcement of the Pirates of the Caribbean films and Cars will pretty much solidify Blu-ray's continued sales lead through May. But in my opinion, I think it is highly doubtful that HD DVD will be able to pick up significant steam without Universal releasing a barrage of "A" titles. The desire of retailers, most studios and consumers for a unified high definition format makes it highly unlikely that there will be additional studio support heading towards HD DVD.
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post #79 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by GeorgeLV View Post

No way. The format war is over and BD has won. It's all about content. You have three times as many releases you get three times the shelf real estate. If you can't see the competition, soon enough it's not there.

Hello Simple Mind? BD does not have 3x the content. Where did you get that number from? Please do not post misinformation. Do your homework on the current release count and come back. Jeezz..... the idiocy!

Last Watched 3D: Oz the Great and Powerful

It should be called Violet-Ray

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post #80 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

Hello Simple Mind? BD does not have 3x the content. Where did you get that number from? Please do not post misinformation. Do your homework on the current release count and come back. Jeezz..... the idiocy!

BD: 199
HD-DVD: 170

Friends don't let friends game in SD.
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post #81 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 03:20 PM
 
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Originally Posted by LAGOSIAN View Post

Come on guys, we are only 24 days into 2007, can we give it at least 6 months? These daily and weekly graphs are completely unreliable and do not depict a clear picture at all. It takes a larger amount of data in order to be more definite.

what was that HD-DVD sarcastic chant "just wait", lol quite a role reversal now.
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post #82 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

Hello Simple Mind? BD does not have 3x the content. Where did you get that number from? Please do not post misinformation. Do your homework on the current release count and come back. Jeezz..... the idiocy!

Blu-ray has released 19 titles this year.
HD DVD has released 9.

Blu-ray has 61 more titles with annouced dates.
Hd DVD has 17.

Over 3x the content.

This mathematical formula will explain:

Sony + Disney + Fox + Lionsgate + MGM > Universal + Weinstein
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post #83 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ragnarok View Post

BD: 199
HD-DVD: 170

Maybe he meant 3X the announced upcoming releases (is it only 3X?). In any sense, having botched their launch, BD still has the stigma of being sloppy and they have to be careful about what movies they choose to release. Hence so many video-HDCAM based movies recently. I think they realized too late the nature of the launch HD DVD titles, and had to adjust their thinking. Am I the only person in the world that watched launch day FMJ in HDDVD?

OTOH, recent HD DVD releases have been accused of grain?! . So HD DVD authoring people can't let down their guards either.

Those BD exclusive studios also have substantial library of older movies, but they might have problems getting consistent quality out of them without a lot of hard work remastering some old classics. That applies to Universal as well.

Assuming both these camps learns from their mistakes, this war is going to drive prices down for gear and content. I say we enjoy it while it lasts. It should be around at least another 9 months, maybe a few years even as long as they show signs of life, money is going to be poured in by both sides.
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post #84 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Sketcha View Post


Personally, though I have not seen anyone on the BD side (and I've looked,) say that they will never, under any circumstances support HD DVD. While there are quite a few in the HD DVD camp that have publically stated the reverse.

What HT enthusiast could hate a corporation so much as to deny themselves so much? If this happens, I'm sure Sony will shed a tear for these lost souls.

JMHO


EDIT: Should've read more like...

...any circumstances, regardless of who finally wins, BUY anything HD DVD.

I never noticed that, but I think you're right. There are number of HD DVD supporters who openly express hate for anything BD and Sony....I don't see that type of emotion from the Blu-ray side towards Universal or Toshiba, etc.. That's probably why I find myself empathizing with Blu-ray on these forums even though I own and love both formats.
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post #85 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 03:33 PM
 
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Originally Posted by csmith75 View Post

I never noticed that, but I think you're right. There are number of HD DVD supporters who openly express hate for anything BD and Sony....I don't see that type of emotion from the Blu-ray side towards Universal or Toshiba, etc.. That's probably why I find myself empathizing with Blu-ray on this forums even though I own and love both formats.

True many of us blu-ray owners just want good HD, we don't deny that the launch had some crappy titles either. But the crap that HD-DVD fanatics pushing out nonsense as if it were reality today when really that was 7 months ago, or BD 50 being science fiction or MPEG2 not having the ability to look good, etc etc. Many of us don't bash HD-DVD, I for one am very open to picking one up when the prices are right if it is still needed. I thought the HD-DVD add-on was going to be the solution, bu I really want to upgrade in PQ and SQ for HD-DVD's as well.
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post #86 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 03:36 PM
 
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I see much irrationality on both sides of this fence. As I said before, tribalism rules. These forums would provide interesting fodder for someone's sociology thesis. People around here have become downright nasty and unpleasant.
It's only AV equipment, dangit.

Very sad.

Eric
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post #87 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 04:19 PM
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*giggle*

I love all the discussion about the format in war past tense. Over. Done. Finished.

So if and when the sales trend flattens again or, heaven forbid, reverses itself, will that be "Format War II" since the first one is over?

Awful lot of people counting their chickens considering how early we are in the format war...

It will be interesting to revisit this thread 6 months from now and then compare notes.

"But I want to do community service; I want to teach the handicapped how to yodel." - Hudson Hawk
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post #88 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSCH View Post

In fact, in an ironic way, I happen to believe that the lack of game support at this time has actually helped Blu-ray software sales .

I was arguing this point the other day with a friend.How many worthwhile launch games are there for someone just buying a PS3?There's even less choice if you happen to be a 360 owner as well.But the allure of blueray movies on the shelf may be too much to resist.I know that if I had a PS3 right now,I'd be buying up some movies to get some early returns on the $500-600 spent on the console.The gaming software is clearly lacking right now.

Too many systems and games....not enough time or money!

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post #89 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeLV View Post

This mathematical formula will explain:

Sony + Disney + Fox + Lionsgate + MGM > Universal + Weinstein

Really? I told you to do your homework before you came back.

Your calculations are stupid, especially since Paramount and Warner are two of the largest studios and they are format neutral. Therefore their titles count towards both. You also are not counting titles from smaller studios releasing concerts, adult films, HBO, and variety programming from companies such as HDNet. You also are not including television content in which Paramount and Universal have a ton of, along with MGM, Disney, and Fox. I am not arguing that BD will continue to have a larger library, but saying 3x the content is just an dumb statement to make, as was your little mathematical equation as you will see...

Below are the approximate number of titles each studio has rights to for distribution:

20th Century Fox - 500
Buena Vista - 300
Disney - 250
MGM/United Artists - 1900
Sony/Columbia/Tristar - 1100
Lionsgate - 300
Universal - 5000
Weinstien - 100

Sony + Disney + Fox + Lionsgate + MGM <</b> Universal + Weinstein
4350 < 5100

Last Watched 3D: Oz the Great and Powerful

It should be called Violet-Ray

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post #90 of 11556 Old 01-24-2007, 04:32 PM
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yeah the gap is going to get bigger and bigger!

PS3/Bluray Supporter!!!
Dean Martin Soldier!
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