The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 10:21 AM
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Wait a minute, having your gear in the SIG is against the rules?

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post #812 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Are you with the sig police?

ME? no, but in a previous post, I believe someone mentioned that it's against the rules.

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post #813 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 11:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JosephD05 View Post

ME? no, but in a previous post, I believe someone mentioned that it's against the rules.

And it is in fact against the rules...

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post #814 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by JosephD05 View Post

ME? no, but in a previous post, I believe someone mentioned that it's against the rules.

Well, in bold red text on the page where you created your sig it says "NOTE...Do not list equipment in your signature." But I've seen people do it. I have one piece of gear listed. And I've seen a few people list their gear in their "Custom User Title."


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post #815 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 12:01 PM
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My bad, I'll remove it.

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post #816 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 12:02 PM
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BTW, 300 is grainy, but it looks and sounds amazing. It just feels right with the grain.

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post #817 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephD05 View Post

My bad, I'll remove it.

For the purposes of this thread, they want to know display resolution and seating distance. I think 60i, 60p or 24p might have been added to the pertinent info, but don't quote me on that.

You can list your gear in your profile. Also, many ISP's supply a few MB of personal web server space and many people put up a page or three on their system there. Follow the link in my sig for an example.


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post #818 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 12:08 PM
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60 inch 1080p. Viewing distance I would say 12 ft. I will watch the entire movie sometime this week and will post again.

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post #819 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JosephD05 View Post

60 inch 1080p. Viewing distance I would say 12 ft. I will watch the entire movie sometime this week and will post again.

You understand how the "required" information affects what one sees when judging a movie, right? The thinking is, and I concur, that artifacting due to 3:2 pulldown of the native 24p on BD (and HD-DVD) is not there on systems feeding the display the native 24p (and the display properly handling said 24p). That means that it's not the disc (movie), but the system. Resolution and viewing distance, I believe, mostly go to softness/sharpness; a movie looks different at 2x screen width than it does at 1x screen width. Ditto a 1080p source displayed at 1920x1080i than at 1920x1080i or 1280x720p (or 1366x768p).


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post #820 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 12:28 PM
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I think the PS3 is pumping it out at 1080i 60 as my TV cannot accept a 1080P source. That being said, Crank looks unreal, not sure if it was shot differently. I run my set in Pro mode, which does do a 3:2 pulldown.

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post #821 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 02:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Noted - I think both movies are stunning from what I hear; I'm not sure that 3:2 would make much difference but I've seen DMC on 1080p/24 and it looks great.

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post #822 of 21893 Old 08-13-2007, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinSTI View Post

Noted - I think both movies are stunning from what I hear; I'm not sure that 3:2 would make much difference but I've seen DMC on 1080p/24 and it looks great.

Agreed, DMC still trumps Crank and BHD in my (and others) opinion. The 3:2 wouldn't likely have a major hit on PQ - it would more likely affect non-24p material.

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post #823 of 21893 Old 08-14-2007, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by JosephD05 View Post

Well my TV is in my signiature. I didn't watch the movie, but I browsed through various parts. Maybe it's the fact that it's 2.35-1 ratio (black bars), but I still think Crank and Black hawk down look better. If I change my mind after watching the whole movie, I will let you know.

I sort of understand where you are coming from. Because Crank is 1.85 aspect ratio and was filmed on HD Video, one can make the case that in more than a few scenes it may have more pop, detail and vibrant colors. However, in other scenes there is significant edge enhancement, and many purists just don't like the look of HD Video. Overall, DMC is more consistent and more incredibly stunning in it's own right.

However, I think DMC trumps Black Hawk Down in pretty solid fashion.

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post #824 of 21893 Old 08-14-2007, 04:48 AM
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Ok, bringing back the HOFD argument. I bought Stargate yesterday on Blu-ray(only $3 at CC) and it looks HORRIBLE compared to House of Flying Daggers. I don't see how Stargate isn't in the Coal tier. It's absolutely friggin terrible. I understand it's already in the Bronze tier, but I really think it needs to be put in the very last position. Even my girlfriend said it looked like crap compared to HOFD.

I'm watching on a Phillips 42PFL7432D/37 1080p via HDMI. Viewing distance is about 8 feet. Using a PS3 with 24p turned off.

There were points in Stargate where it looked like a DVD. Especially inside of Ra's pyramid spaceship. The outside scenes were OK, but still mediocre. Even compared to HOFD!

If Stargate doesn't belong in the Coal tier, I'd hate to see what really belongs in that category.
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post #825 of 21893 Old 08-14-2007, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

I sort of understand where you are coming from. Because Crank is 1.85 aspect ratio and was filmed on HD Video, one can make the case that in more than a few scenes it may have more pop, detail and vibrant colors. However, in other scenes there is significant edge enhancement, and many purists just don't like the look of HD Video. Overall, DMC is more consistent and more incredibly stunning in it's own right.

However, I think DMC trumps Black Hawk Down in pretty solid fashion.

Brandon

I agree 100%. The edge enhancement kills me on this title and I for one don't like the look of HD video.
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post #826 of 21893 Old 08-14-2007, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by haste View Post

Ok, bringing back the HOFD argument. I bought Stargate yesterday on Blu-ray(only $3 at CC) and it looks HORRIBLE compared to House of Flying Daggers. I don't see how Stargate isn't in the Coal tier. It's absolutely friggin terrible. I understand it's already in the Bronze tier, but I really think it needs to be put in the very last position. Even my girlfriend said it looked like crap compared to HOFD.

I'm watching on a Phillips 42PFL7432D/37 1080p via HDMI. Viewing distance is about 8 feet. Using a PS3 with 24p turned off.

There were points in Stargate where it looked like a DVD. Especially inside of Ra's pyramid spaceship. The outside scenes were OK, but still mediocre. Even compared to HOFD!

If Stargate doesn't belong in the Coal tier, I'd hate to see what really belongs in that category.

Oh lord not HOFD AGAIN....Buy/Rent DMC and let us know how that looks

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post #827 of 21893 Old 08-14-2007, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinSTI View Post

I don't think anyone was saying put equipment in your Sig, but rather resolution, viewing distance etc. There is a differance. The latter isn't against the rules.

The thing is, it won't last. When you change you sig, it will change all of your previous messages. So, for posterity's sake, putting any information in your sig is a bad idea.

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post #828 of 21893 Old 08-14-2007, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinSTI View Post

Oh lord not HOFD AGAIN....Buy/Rent DMC and let us know how that looks


I was simply stating that Stargate looks far worse, and I don't understand why it isn't ranked lower than HOFD. There is a HUGE difference between the two.
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post #829 of 21893 Old 08-14-2007, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by JosephShaw View Post

The thing is, it won't last. When you change you sig, it will change all of your previous messages. So, for posterity's sake, putting any information in your sig is a bad idea.

If you change your sig often, that might be true, but then only if you replace the info instead of supplementing it. And putting it there means the poster can set it and forget it - it's always there. Sure it may not make sense when you post in the HTPC forum, but who cares. I've had my DVR and software version in my sig for nearly a year.

Just my $.02.


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post #830 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 05:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

If you change your sig often, that might be true, but then only if you replace the info instead of supplementing it. And putting it there means the poster can set it and forget it - it's always there. Sure it may not make sense when you post in the HTPC forum, but who cares. I've had my DVR and software version in my sig for nearly a year.

Just my $.02.

If you change your sig it doesn't change all your previous posts...look at my earlier posts and you'll see my sig isn't there....

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post #831 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 07:20 AM
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If you change your sig it doesn't change all your previous posts...look at my earlier posts and you'll see my sig isn't there....

I was wrong about that! Only things on the left around the screen name change and are updated retroactively - avatar, post count, custom user title, etc. Again, I demonstrated the dangers of a-s-s-u-m-i-n-g.

What's your position on posters, if for no other reason than they no longer need to remember it when posting, having display res and viewing distance in their sig? And should 60p/60i/24p be listed as well?


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post #832 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

What's your position on posters, if for no other reason than they no longer need to remember it when posting, having display res and viewing distance in their sig? And should 60p/60i/24p be listed as well?

Honestly, as much info as possible. The more the better. If we have a whole bunch of viewing info (including timestamp) with person A's opinion and conflicting info on the same film from person B with no more info than "Uh... I'm watching on a plasma. it pwns!", we're going to go with person A.

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post #833 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinSTI View Post

If you change your sig it doesn't change all your previous posts...look at my earlier posts and you'll see my sig isn't there....

Yes it does.

My old sig before I changed it 2 minutes ago:


The same post, but with my new sig after I changed it:


But I'm being pedantic. You could post the technical info in your profile under equipment if you wanted to.

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post #834 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 09:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JosephShaw View Post

Yes it does.

My old sig before I changed it 2 minutes ago:


The same post, but with my new sig after I changed it:


But I'm being pedantic. You could post the technical info in your profile under equipment if you wanted to.

I think if you didn't have one before and you create one it isn't added to all of your posts. If you have one and CHANGE it maybe it changes in your posts...just a guess

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post #835 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 09:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Mongoos150 View Post

Honestly, as much info as possible. The more the better. If we have a whole bunch of viewing info (including timestamp) with person A's opinion and conflicting info on the same film from person B with no more info than "Uh... I'm watching on a plasma. it pwns!", we're going to go with person A.

I agree - the more the better. In the end there are things that'll be different for each film and things that won't the things that won't belong in the sig; the things that change belong in a post. We do need 60i/p or 24i/p depending on your setup. I think it'll be assumed its 60 if its not included because those that view at 24 know it...

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post #836 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by JosephShaw View Post

But I'm being pedantic. You could post the technical info in your profile under equipment if you wanted to.

Nobody looks there. The thinking is that one's opinion on the matter of a particular film's tier level is easier to "qualify" and understand if the factoids in question are known. Digging around every time for the poster's system means virtually no one would do it.

Just my $.02.


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post #837 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinSTI View Post

I agree - the more the better. In the end there are things that'll be different for each film and things that won't the things that won't belong in the sig; the things that change belong in a post. We do need 60i/p or 24i/p depending on your setup. I think it'll be assumed its 60 if its not included because those that view at 24 know it...

Can we presume/deduce that certain complaints would be affected more by viewing distance and resolution than by the presence (or absence) of native frame rate passthrough? And vice versa?


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post #838 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 11:22 AM
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Can we presume/deduce that certain complaints would be affected more by viewing distance and resolution than by the presence (or absence) of native frame rate passthrough? And vice versa?

If I had to guess, I'd say the biggest influences on perceptual quality would be:

(1) Resolution. 1080 native resolution units are going to do better than 720p native units (768 pixels, typically). It's very hard to spot macroblocking or mild softness when you're losing 30% of the picture detail due to downscaling. I woud take any claims of great PQ from a 720p user with a grain of salt until it is confirmed by at least one 1080p user.

(2) Viewing distance. Sitting too far back from the display will cause you to miss the fine detail and reduce the possibility of spotting artifacts or soft transfers.

(3) Frame rate. The only artifact introduced by frame rate is judder. It doesn't impact the quality of the image itself, and most people are somewhat used to judder anyhow.

Claims of poor color balance should always be taken with a grain of salt unless coming from someone with a calibrated display, or unless the effect is obvious (Crank, Transporter 2, etc.).
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post #839 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 03:04 PM
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Aaaaand we're done. Let's get back to talking about specific films and their respective ratings. The horse is dead, people.

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post #840 of 21893 Old 08-15-2007, 03:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Aaaaand we're done. Let's get back to talking about specific films and their respective ratings. The horse is dead, people.

I agree...what came out today?

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