The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 331 - AVS Forum
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post #9901 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 03:44 PM
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Too much red tape for me to even try to weigh in here. Please carry on without me as the system for voting isn't too inviting for people who only want vote and not write a thesis on the matter. I feel as if I have a better chance of getting my vote counted in an Kenyan election than here. For the record Crank should stay where it is in Tier 0...
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post #9902 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post

Too much red tape for me to even try to weigh in here. Please carry on without me as the system for voting isn't too inviting for people who only want vote and not write a thesis on the matter.

Sorry to hear that. If you change your mind and decide you sincerely want to participate, I'm sure anyone here would be willing to help you get acclimated.
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post #9903 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 07:58 PM
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Zodiac (UK Import) - Will stand by my previous recommendation.

Tier-0 revisions - My list

Pirates of the Caribbean - At World's End Video: AVC | Audio: PCM | AR: 2.40:1 | Buena Vista => Bottom Tier-0

Beowulf (UK) Video: VC-1 | Audio: TrueHD | AR: 2.40:1 | Warner => Top Tier-1

TMNT Video: VC-1 | Audio: TrueHD | AR: 2.40:1 | Warner => Top Tier-1

The Host Video: VC-1 | Audio: PCM | AR: 1.85:1 | Magnolia => Top Tier-1 (entire climax has a hazy look. I think Rob may raise some objections.)

Black Snake Moan Video: AVC | Audio: DD | AR: 2.35:1 | Paramount => Need to rewatch

Rendition (UK) Video: AVC | Audio: DTS-HD MA | AR: 2.35:1 | EIV => This one is said to suffer from DNR. So can't comment.

Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl Video: AVC | Audio: PCM | AR: 2.40:1 | Buena Vista => Bottom of Tier-0 or Top of Tier-1. Doesn't look better than Incredible Hulk and few other titles listed in Top Tier-1.

Hellboy II: The Golden Army Video: AVC | Audio: DTS-HD MA | AR: 1.85:1 | Universal => Tier 1.5 or 1.75 (Poor CGI)

The Island Video: VC-1 | Audio: DD | (UK Import) | AR: 2.35:1 | Warner => Top Tier-1

Happy Feet Video: VC-1 | Audio: DD EX | AR: 2.40:1 | Warner => Identical video encodes. So can be placed above or below the UK Import.

Kill Bill: Vol. 2 Video: AVC | Audio: PCM | AR: 2.40:1 | Buena Vista => Above or Below Speed Racer in Tier-0.

Iron Man.....1.75: I happened to compare the BD Vs. a rental DVD and my god, what a difference. One poster here raised concern on Studios dumbing down DVD to showcase and market BD.

Friends,

My moniker is LGANS316 and NOT Igans316

Blu-ray : 340
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post #9904 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 357 View Post

Too much red tape for me to even try to weigh in here. Please carry on without me as the system for voting isn't too inviting for people who only want vote and not write a thesis on the matter. I feel as if I have a better chance of getting my vote counted in an Kenyan election than here. For the record Crank should stay where it is in Tier 0...

There is no need to worry as I am in agreement with your Cranky recommendation.

Blu-ray : 340
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post #9905 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 08:38 PM
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I think I will suffer a coronary if either of the Pirate movies are moved down one inch.


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post #9906 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

I think I will suffer a coronary if either of the Pirate movies are moved down one inch.

Make that a double coronary!

I think it's quite a stretch to want to move POTC:AWE down from being the #2 live action movie to the bottom of tier 0. And there is no way that POTC:COTBP is worse than The Incredible Hulk (as Igans316 noted).

My vote is to keep those titles just where they are.

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post #9907 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 09:28 PM
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I agree with both of you, so add my vote to keeping them where they are. I was sort of joking the other day about most titles have flaws and while I was being sarcastic about having only 5 titles left in tier 0 with one being non animation, that is exactly what would happen if we were extremely rigid on placements.
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post #9908 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 09:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbeck View Post

Sorry to hear that. If you change your mind and decide you sincerely want to participate, I'm sure anyone here would be willing to help you get acclimated.

You are really taking the high road and I commend you for doing so and your efforts at reaching out. That is all we can do.
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post #9909 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 09:34 PM
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To add to the Tier 0 cleanup efforts, I'm not sure why Prison Break Season 1 is so high in Tier 0. Guess not many people rated it? It's not a bad looking release or anything, but its not really a visually stimulating show, and the kind of detail it offers does not stand out enough from most other new releases for me to consider it one of my reference blu-rays. Nominating to move it down to 1.5
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post #9910 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 10:00 PM
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It wouldn't bother me at all if we whittled our reference tier down to about 10 titles.

Personally, I think we have too many in the reference tier.

We need to be tougher.

Less sentimental.

Sacrifice our sacred cows.

Take no prisoners.

Give no quarter.

Koo Koo Kajoob.
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post #9911 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 10:55 PM
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I agree with lgans316 regarding POTC:AWE. My biggest gripe is the dark scene between Miss Swann and Sao Feng in his ship. It is not visually stimulating at all and could not find the fast forward button quick enough while showing off blu-ray to my co-workers. I am very surprised by its placement above Man on Fire.

Btw, thanks all for taking the time to keep this thread going. I'm still 95% lurking, but will hopefully contribute a review soon.

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post #9912 of 21883 Old 02-01-2009, 11:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbeck View Post

So far....
The Host.....1.0 (lgans316)

I believe The Host still deserves its Tier 0 ranking. Even during the dark scenes (e.g., when the family is gathered around inside the shack before confronting the creature), facial details (pores, strands) were intact.

Having just perused through Live Free and Die Hard, I can safely say that the two movies are on par with each other, giving The Host an ever so slight edge. They did a decent job incorporating that creature too, I might add.

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post #9913 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 02:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbeck View Post




Hellboy II: The Golden Army.....1.75 (lgans316)

You can add me there on that.
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post #9914 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 02:09 AM
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Originally Posted by patrick99 View Post

I won't commit to a tier recommendation yet, since I have so far watched only about half of the movie.

Nevertheless, I would repeat my earlier comment (made when I had only watched about 20 minutes) relating to fuzziness in medium shots. This is most noticeable in scenes in the newspaper offices, but is really present throughout.

Can someone remind me what we know about what was done in the way of image processing after filiming on this? It definitely does have, to my eyes, a "filtered" look that is quite bothersome. Plus of course the extremely waxy faces in the first scene.

And some of the dark scenes do look pretty bad. The scene with the woman and baby in a car on a country road particularly sticks in my mind on that score.

I watched Zodiac nearly to the end last night. The problem I was having with the PQ continued throughout. A fuzzy, filtered look in medium shots. I will stick with 1.75.
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post #9915 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Tier-0 revisions - My list

Pirates of the Caribbean - At World's End Video: AVC | Audio: PCM | AR: 2.40:1 | Buena Vista => Bottom Tier-0

Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl Video: AVC | Audio: PCM | AR: 2.40:1 | Buena Vista => Bottom of Tier-0 or Top of Tier-1. Doesn't look better than Incredible Hulk and few other titles listed in Top Tier-1.

The Island Video: VC-1 | Audio: DD | (UK Import) | AR: 2.35:1 | Warner => Top Tier-1

Kill Bill: Vol. 2 Video: AVC | Audio: PCM | AR: 2.40:1 | Buena Vista => Above or Below Speed Racer in Tier-0.

I am comfortable with the current placement of POTC:AWE so we will have to disagree on that one. I could see POTC:COTBP a little lower in tier zero but putting it in tier one is pushing it. I totally agree on The Island and the KB 2 nominations. I do believe that whenever we get the domestic version of The Island it will be a tier zero caliber title. The import is a HD DVD-limited video encode from the early days of the format.


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post #9916 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

Zodiac

This was a difficult title for me to rate. The PQ can be extremely impressive at times, usually in the outdoor daylight scenes. Clarity is very, very good in those scenes. Detail is excellent. You can even read writing on the newspapers in some scenes. There are plenty of these types of shots throughout the movie. The print is absolutely spotless.

However, dark scenes are not so impressive. They have a somewhat flat look to them. Also, on several occasions I noticed what looked like some type of vertical lines in the darkest parts of the picture. Blacks are not very deep either.

Colors were pretty good. Certainly not over saturated. If anything they were just slightly on the muted side, but still natural looking overall.

It appears that this was shot on HD cams, which would explain both the incredible detail AND the less than impressive black levels.

As for the movie itself, I was very impressed. This is a very good film. The attention to detail is quite good. Part of this took place in my city (Riverside) and they actually shot those scenes here. Even the police had the Riverside logo on their sleeves.

Tier Recommendation: 1.75
(I think it's current placement at 1.25 is too high given the issues with dark scenes).


The vertical lines that I talked about in my review were confirmed in a post by eric.exe yesterday:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...5#post15710275


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post #9917 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post

I am comfortable with the current placement of POTC:AWE so we will have to disagree on that one. I could see POTC:COTBP a little lower in tier zero but putting it in tier one is pushing it.

I invite you guys to re-watch/re-assess the POTC titles in light of recent Tier-0 releases. In your copious free time, of course.

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post #9918 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 11:57 AM
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Agree -- hope we are all reassessing these titles and not just reasserting previous reviews.
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post #9919 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbeck View Post

Agree -- hope we are all reassessing these titles and not just reasserting previous reviews.


This is why I haven't chimed in *whispers* that Speed Racer should be tier 1.0. *ducks the flying objects*

I have a busy week ahead of me but I can try to review KB1&2 (watched on Blu but never reviewed) after I get around to Iron Man like I promised I would. I have a review of Bourne 2 coming up shortly as well, likely this afternoon.


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post #9920 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbeck View Post

Agree -- hope we are all reassessing these titles and not just reasserting previous reviews.

Think you may have left [b]Eagle Eye[b] off your list. I watched it last night after the game and found the overall picture quality to be very sharp. Faces with good detail and natural skin tones. Some blurring however during the almost non-stop action. I would recommend a low 1.5 placement. I think it was reviewed early in January by some other folks.

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post #9921 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Obi-UWS View Post

Think you may have left [b]Eagle Eye[b] off your list. I watched it last night after the game and found the overall picture quality to be very sharp. Faces with good detail and natural skin tones. Some blurring however during the almost non-stop action. I would recommend a low 1.5 placement. I think it was reviewed early in January by some other folks.

My set up:
Samsung 46" 550, Panny DMP-BD-35 thru an Onkyo 705 7.1 speaker set up.

Eagle Eye was NOT left off the list, because SuprSlow hasn't placed it yet. But since there were a few recommendations in early January it should be placed in the near future. So far here are the recommendations for Eagle Eye:

1.25...............patrick99
1.50...............obi-UWS
1.75...............djoberg
2.0.................Hughmc

BTW, your equipment list sounds good! I have the Onkyo 705 too with a 7.1 speaker system. I also have a Panny Blu-ray player (DMP-BD30) and a Samsung tv (50" DLP).

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post #9922 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 02:19 PM
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Well for some reason my Get Smart from Netflix had a hard time loading/reading.

It finally did, I got about halfway through the film and it kept freezing/skipping. So I didn't get to finish.

From what I saw I don't mind it being in Tier 2.5 but will wait to give my full review once I watch the whole thing.
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post #9923 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 02:20 PM
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Upper Midwest meets the Upper West Side. Ha.
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post #9924 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 02:33 PM
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Seal: Soundstage

recommendation: Tier 1.5

A somewhat obscure Blu-ray, this disc is based off a performance from the PBS program Soundstage and is only available from Sears. Released late in 2008, the 59-minute program is encoded in VC-1 on a BD-25. The video is only presented in 1080i, but that is what the program was originally broadcast at on PBS and I suspect what resolution the master is in. This is one of the higher bitrate VC-1 encodes I have witnessed. The encode goes from a low of 15.9 Mbps to many moments in the 40's as high as 46.6 Mbps. Most of the encode varies in a more stable range from 22.5 Mbps to 40.7 Mbps. I would estimate the average video bitrate to be 29 Mbps. I did not detect any problems with the compression work, as the image shows no signs of artifacting of any kind. I was worried about the appearance of banding given the nature of the material, but it never materialized.

Shot with HD cameras in an indoor venue, the image looks good overall with very nice resolution. I would not call the image perfect, considering some of the conditions the show was shot under. While there are no smoke machines present, Seal and parts of the audience are illuminated by colored spotlights. His stark white shirt blooms just the tiniest bit under the glare of multiple spotlights focused on him during the performance. Contrast and color saturation appear excellent with solid, if slightly washed out black levels. Close-ups, almost exclusively of Seal, reveal the highlights of the picture quality here. Every minute detail of Seal's face is shown while he sings, which may be too revealing for some viewers.

Flesh tones appear very natural and accurate except for the occasions when the lighting changes color scheme. Purple light seems to be the favored choice here and there is one brief segment with the audience bathed in a dark red light. The image does not have the superior depth and dimensionality seen in the best Blu-rays and occasionally flattens out to some extent. Video noise is kept to a bare minimum and is only faintly visible in a few sporadic shots that do not last very long.

The picture quality does drop a notch when the camera angle is switched to Seal's perspective watching the audience. The audience is not lit as well and shadow detail is not that well delineated in those shots. Thankfully the director chose not to use this angle frequently and instead focuses on Seal and his backing band. I will say I had a minor quibble with how some of the shots were framed. Composition of the image looked a little too haphazard for my tastes, with tight and awkward shots interspersed throughout the program.

My final recommendation for placement is tier 1.5. I split the difference between the better moments that approached the upper end of the tier and the worst moments near the bottom of the tier for a ranking somewhere in the middle. This BD will definitely satisfy any Seal fan and lovers of good music in general who want a visually pleasing image to go along with the music.

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...stage&sLevel=0


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post #9925 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post

1.25...............patrick99
1.50...............obi-UWS
1.75...............djoberg
2.0.................Hughmc

I'm mostly trying to keep a list of titles which have been placed and keeping track of the ones where there is some support for movement, mostly down. So, the list doesn't include all of the titles that have been reviewed during the current period. Happy to add these, though, or any others if there is interest.
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post #9926 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsbeck View Post

I'm mostly trying to keep a list of titles which have been placed and keeping track of the ones where there is some support for movement, mostly down. So, the list doesn't include all of the titles that have been reviewed during the current period. Happy to add these, though, or any others if there is interest.

I knew your list was comprised of titles already placed....I listed these for the sake of obi-UWS, and for SuprSlow too if he wanted to use it for placing that title. But thanks for including it in your list anyway.

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post #9927 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 03:52 PM
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El gusto es mio.
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Outside of the facial and hair detail, what do you feel about BSM is reference?

I've been occupied the past few days with the Super Bowl. I'll watch BSM in the next few days and get back to you. Off the top of my head, a radiator and a chained young lady comes to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by geekyglassesgirl View Post

This is why I haven't chimed in *whispers* that Speed Racer should be tier 1.0. *ducks the flying objects*

***flying shoe headed too damn close to the arctic circle***
Speed Racer is a flawless, live action cartoon that belongs near the top of Tier 0! It would break my heart to see it in Tier 1, as it is "true eye candy!" (other than invisible purple outlines every now and then)
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post #9929 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 04:25 PM
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El gusto es mio.

I had to Google that one! Thanks for taking pleasure in serving us.

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post #9930 of 21883 Old 02-02-2009, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by selimsivad View Post

speed racer is a flawless, live action cartoon that belongs near the top of tier 0! It would break my heart to see it in tier 1, as it is "true eye candy!" (other than invisible purple outlines every now and then)

lol!

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