The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 08:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andydumi View Post

Is this thread to replace fettastic's? I was gone for a few days and that one is gone and this is in its place...
I am confused. Alao I am not sure on the voting, I would rather have a few people with excellent setups and experience give their opinions, rather than every Tom Dick and Harry with a variety of setups, TVs, room conditions and eyes. I know at least several people with 27-32 inch 720p HDTVs here and I dont believe you can fully judge the quality of a Bluray on such a TV.
That being said I also dont think director's intent should play a role. Something gritty may be good for the war movie style, but this list here is about the quality of the image, and what we consider the best to show off the capabilities of the medium.

I'd like to think I have one of the better if not the best video setup around but I don't think that means myself or others who have great setups should unilaterally decide. The intent of this thread is to provide everyone feedback on what titles are great viewing experiences and represent the best BD has to offer. Not everyone runs 1080p/24 like me and so if something looks bad @ 1080p/60 it should be accounted for. Since every setup is different I'd like to see people provide input on their setups as well. If something is Tier 0 on every setup out there most can be assured that its worth picking up and reference quality.

My Setup:

Pioneer PRO-FHD1 50" Plasma
Samsung BD-P1200

They are connected directly via HDMI and all Blu-Ray's are viewed at 1080p/24

My reciever isn't worth mentioning because its 10 years old and blows It will be replaced soon.

From what I've seen on the polling so far it seems to be on the money. If it doesn't work out I'm open to adjusting or trying something different.

Directors intent can be subjective so I think for those films where there is directors intent that is known about and needs consideration those details will be included in the poll.

See how your Blu-Ray movies stack up. Visit the Blu-Ray Tier Thread Today.
Viewing Movies at 1080p/24 on a Pioneer PRO-FHD1 50" Plasma TV and a Blu-Ray Player. Viewing Distance:7-10ft.
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post #92 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 09:21 AM
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The Tier system has just become useless. Thanks a lot.

People are rating Apocalypto as Tier 0. It surely is NOT. Letting users vote is retarded. Some users may have ONLY seen Apocalypto, and therefore don't have any way of comparing it other titles. Also, HD-DVD fanboys are able to vote, hence we see some Tier 5 votes for Apocalypto. Sure, the majority is, and probably will be, Tier 0. But as stated, I can say with confidence that this should NOT be in the Tier 0 rank.

It was good while it lasted. You did well Fett.
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post #93 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andydumi View Post

Is this thread to replace fettastic's? I was gone for a few days and that one is gone and this is in its place...
I am confused. Alao I am not sure on the voting, I would rather have a few people with excellent setups and experience give their opinions, rather than every Tom Dick and Harry with a variety of setups, TVs, room conditions and eyes. I know at least several people with 27-32 inch 720p HDTVs here and I dont believe you can fully judge the quality of a Bluray on such a TV.
That being said I also dont think director's intent should play a role. Something gritty may be good for the war movie style, but this list here is about the quality of the image, and what we consider the best to show off the capabilities of the medium.


I agree with you fully on this issue. I wish more people felt the same way...
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post #94 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Nice

See how your Blu-Ray movies stack up. Visit the Blu-Ray Tier Thread Today.
Viewing Movies at 1080p/24 on a Pioneer PRO-FHD1 50" Plasma TV and a Blu-Ray Player. Viewing Distance:7-10ft.
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post #95 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garconis View Post

The Tier system has just become useless. Thanks a lot.

People are rating Apocalypto as Tier 0. It surely is NOT. Letting users vote is retarded. Some users may have ONLY seen Apocalypto, and therefore don't have any way of comparing it other titles. Also, HD-DVD fanboys are able to vote, hence we see some Tier 5 votes for Apocalypto. Sure, the majority is, and probably will be, Tier 0. But as stated, I can say with confidence that this should NOT be in the Tier 0 rank.

It was good while it lasted. You did well Fett.

It would be nice that if you choose to come in with statements like this, which only serve to anger people, that you would then back them up with some sort of information.

Usually when people REALLY know what they are talking about, and feel that a particular title should be ranked lower, they would point out a specific scene or issue to further the discussion. If you feel this way, by all means state it...many users and reviewers disagree, but that doesn't mean you are wrong.

You are only wrong in that you use counter productive words and statements like "retarded", "fanboys", "useless" etc, and offer no counter point.

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post #96 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garconis View Post

The Tier system has just become useless. Thanks a lot.

People are rating Apocalypto as Tier 0. It surely is NOT. Letting users vote is retarded. Some users may have ONLY seen Apocalypto, and therefore don't have any way of comparing it other titles. Also, HD-DVD fanboys are able to vote, hence we see some Tier 5 votes for Apocalypto. Sure, the majority is, and probably will be, Tier 0. But as stated, I can say with confidence that this should NOT be in the Tier 0 rank.

It was good while it lasted. You did well Fett.

Do you have a better solution? I'm all ears.

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post #97 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 09:52 AM
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this thread is open to all to express their opinions

and if you disagree with something, challenge the information in the post...not the poster

Thanks

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post #98 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 10:16 AM
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According to Alan, as of tonight, all Tier polls will be in a new sub-forum. If you care about putting your input in to determining the Tiers, then be sure to look in there every week.

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post #99 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 10:16 AM
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Planet Earth is rated too high in my opinion. Some great looking shots, but the number of bad looking shots with tons of digital noise are too substantial to give this such a high ranking (see the section on caves for example).
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post #100 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 10:24 AM
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Ok, just IMHO, a title that doesn't look like Discovery HD doesn't mean it looks like "crap".
I think SPR looks incredible, bleach bypass process and grain and all.
Should all films look like HDvideo? Should all paintings be as photrealistic as possible? What about say a Monet? Where the brushstrokes are clearly visible and part of the image?
I understand that people like that "3-d pop window" look but for some subject matter, it would be silly. Imagine SPR of Schindler's List looking like Planet Earth. Wouldn't have nearly the same impact.
My god, how boring film would be if everything had to look the exact same...

Perhaps just rename it the "eye candy" thread or the "show off your HT settup" thread?
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post #101 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 10:25 AM
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As stated, Apocalypto does not belong in Tier 0. Tier 1? Indeed. There just isn't the POP that there is in other titles. Visually it did look great. And close to perfect (in terms of film to Blu-ray transfer) -- minus some scenes with noise and an occasional soft scene. Even if it was a perfect TRANSFER, I personally think that it should still remain out of Tier 0. Tier 0 should be reserved soley for Blu-ray titles that outstand you. Something that is so visually amazing that you can't even concentrate on the movie itself, because you're too busy being in awe of the picture quality. To me (via the PS3 and a well tuned XBR3) Apocalypto had a muted color palette and didnt have the sharp pop of other titles I've seen. Sure, "directors intent", but thats not what this tier list is about. It's about the wow factor. It didn't quite live up to the hype that I've been hearing around here. I believe in the future we will see other titles that put Apocalypto (and other Tier 1 [and Tier 0?] titles to shame).

With that said -- here are my opinions on how to go about this thread. Keep it to small group of individuals. People who actually have a good eye, a good set-up, and a large Blu-ray collection.

Joe Blow from next door could have just picked up Ricky Bobby at K-Mart and thought it was the shiznit -- so he comes in here and rates it as Tier 0. Sure, the majority wouldn't do that. The majority would place it in the correct spot. Or would they? I'm willing to bet that the majority of voters here don't have a properly calibrated 1080p set-up. Nor have they seen enough good (and bad) Blu-ray titles to rank the newer titles accordingly.

So either let Fett have his thread back, or only let a select few (with open eyes AND ears) be the judges.
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post #102 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 10:28 AM
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And Rocky Balboa looked incredible. A great transfer.
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post #103 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinSTI View Post

I'd like to think I have one of the better if not the best video setup around but I don't think that means myself or others who have great setups should unilaterally decide. The intent of this thread is to provide everyone feedback on what titles are great viewing experiences and represent the best BD has to offer. Not everyone runs 1080p/24 like me and so if something looks bad @ 1080p/60 it should be accounted for. Since every setup is different I'd like to see people provide input on their setups as well. If something is Tier 0 on every setup out there most can be assured that its worth picking up and reference quality.

My Setup:

Pioneer PRO-FHD1 50" Plasma
Samsung BD-P1200

They are connected directly via HDMI and all Blu-Ray's are viewed at 1080p/24

My reciever isn't worth mentioning because its 10 years old and blows It will be replaced soon.

From what I've seen on the polling so far it seems to be on the money. If it doesn't work out I'm open to adjusting or trying something different.

Directors intent can be subjective so I think for those films where there is directors intent that is known about and needs consideration those details will be included in the poll.

Thats why I suggested getting a few people that buy many BR discs and can make wise comparisons. Plus if you have a few people with a few setups, then you will get better results.

As it stands, we get 150 people to vote, and for all we know some may only own 2-5 bluray discs and cant really have a good frame of reference. Compound that with people who will vote everything down just on principle of anti Bluray (already happening), and we get a stupid system of rating discs that means little.
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post #104 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andydumi View Post

Thats why I suggested getting a few people that buy many BR discs and can make wise comparisons. Plus if you have a few people with a few setups, then you will get better results.

As it stands, we get 150 people to vote, and for all we know some may only own 2-5 bluray discs and cant really have a good frame of reference. Compound that with people who will vote everything down just on principle of anti Bluray (already happening), and we get a stupid system of rating discs that means little.

All voters are visible. Click on the vote # for the tier, and it will show all the usernames of all the people who voted for all the ratings. An easy way to see who is voting what and allow us to spot people who are voting to be a nuisance: 5 Tier 5 votes for Apocalypto, and 2 Tier 0 votes for Blood Diamond. The beauty of the averaging system we are planning to use is that anomalous votes can either be reviewed and discarded because of troublemakers, or they can be kept and still have a small impact on the overall vote. No one can claim their vote didn't count or that they weren't listened to. Of course, now we have the opposite where someone says that the majority of people who voted Tier 0 for Apocalypto (disclosure: I voted Tier 1) are wrong.

If there needs to be a review committee formed, then someone should form it. I have no problems stepping out of the way for a better effort.

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post #105 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Garconis View Post

The Tier system has just become useless. Thanks a lot.

People are rating Apocalypto as Tier 0. It surely is NOT. Letting users vote is retarded. Some users may have ONLY seen Apocalypto, and therefore don't have any way of comparing it other titles. Also, HD-DVD fanboys are able to vote, hence we see some Tier 5 votes for Apocalypto. Sure, the majority is, and probably will be, Tier 0. But as stated, I can say with confidence that this should NOT be in the Tier 0 rank.

It was good while it lasted. You did well Fett.

Go elsewhere then. Fett took his tier thread to another website. You are welcome to visit it there. Your complaining and whining is useless to this thread.

Last Watched 3D: Oz the Great and Powerful

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post #106 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 11:04 AM
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These tier threads are such a waste of time in my opinion. We might as well have a movie quality tier thread as well. That thread can be just as biased and opinionated as the tier threaad.
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post #107 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

Go elsewhere then. Fett took his tier thread to another website. You are welcome to visit it there. Your complaining and whining is useless to this thread.

Do you know where, out of curiosity?
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post #108 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

Go elsewhere then. Fett took his tier thread to another website. You are welcome to visit it there. Your complaining and whining is useless to this thread.

Link?
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post #109 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:16 PM
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"Go elsewhere then. Fett took his tier thread to another website. You are welcome to visit it there. Your complaining and whining is useless to this thread."

The tier threads are gone from digital bits as well. Seems the mods here told them to delete the tier threads on digital bits cause they said that the tier threads were property of AVS.

So seems Fett is out of the Tier business on the entire internet.
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post #110 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:22 PM
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Hi All...

Please be so kind TO STOP the polls. I am working on new software that will be used for the reviews and ranks of not only Disc, but even hardware.

The current polls will not be ported over and will be removed, thus please kindly stop making them at this time.

It may no be until tomorrow that it gets on-line, for it is a full review system that is standalone from the site, but will be part of the site like the gallery is.

Thank you.

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post #111 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:30 PM
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David, what method do you plan on using? Are you just throwing out everything we've done already, and is AVS staff taking over the Tier thread?

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post #112 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephShaw View Post

David, what method do you plan on using? Are you just throwing out everything we've done already, and is AVS staff taking over the Tier thread?

Considering how the last one turned out that may not be a bad option.

At least this time if stuff doesn't work for some people you can ban them instead of killing the list.
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post #113 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jiffylush View Post

Considering how the last one turned out that may not be a bad option.

At least this time if stuff doesn't work for some people you can ban them instead of killing the list.

I will say that I put a bit of thought into what I did after we (the whole BD software forum) were told to come up with something, so having it just summarily yanked is kinda disappointing. At least we tried.

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post #114 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:40 PM
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I'd say drop the tier threads on both sides, seems this site simply cannot get itself together long enough to come to a final decision on it.

Maybe to many chef's in the kitchen or something but the last week has been complete chaos and many decisions and reverse decisions by the people in charge means that any time and effort put into these tier threads might be a waste of time.
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post #115 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swanlee View Post

I'd say drop the tier threads on both sides, seems this site simply cannot get itself together long enough to come to a final decision on it.

Maybe to many chef's in the kitchen or something but the last week has been complete chaos and many decisions and reverse decisions by the people in charge means that any time and effort put into these tier threads might be a waste of time.

I think you may be right. If this is a taste of what Fett had to deal with, then I understand completely now.

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post #116 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:45 PM
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Just have 2 threads.

Pretty eye candy thread

and

Well done and faithful transfer thread...

No more arguments.
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post #117 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:47 PM
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Joseph:

I am sorry, but we really do not see anything that has been done but a bunch of polls being started with people already go at each other in them. Most visitors to the site have NO IDEA what a tear even is or means. We are putting in software that is made for reviews. Members will post the disc or product they would like reviews on and others will then be able to do the reviews. Simple as that. We are doing this now rather than later when we may have the same issues all over again.

Guys...this is ENTERTAINMENT....Not life and Death. Enjoy your movies. I do no care if it is one format or the other. (I even still use DVD...Oh My!!!!) I just want to watch a movie. After all, the enjoyment of movies is what this hobby all about.

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post #118 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:50 PM
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Just watched Nine Inch Nails: Beside You In Time all the way through again, I'd definitely consider it Tier 1 instead of Tier 2, in my subjective opinion.

(Sorry, don't know if user feedback is wanted or not)

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post #119 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephShaw View Post

I will say that I put a bit of thought into what I did after we (the whole BD software forum) were told to come up with something, so having it just summarily yanked is kinda disappointing. At least we tried.

My comment had no reflection on you, I know you were just trying to help out and I do appreciate the effort.
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post #120 of 21708 Old 06-08-2007, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JosephShaw View Post

Do you have a better solution? I'm all ears.

With people complaining, probably not.

But Fett purchased a lot of movies and watched them himself. It's tough to rate movies like Apocalypto when you haven't seen others.

Voting is fundamentally flawed. I'd prefer in thread discussion by people who have actually seen the film.

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