The New PQ Tier thread for Blu-Ray - Discussion - Page 723 - AVS Forum
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post #21661 of 21909 Old 07-15-2014, 01:25 PM
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I agree with your assessment on The Walking Dead. Breaking Bad is also very lacking in PQ department. It seems AMC is not very consistent.

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post #21662 of 21909 Old 07-15-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
I'm not sure when I will make the jump, especially with the impending death of plasma technology. Panasonic and now Samsung have announced they are leaving plasma behind since 4K technology is poised to take over the market.

Technically we are supposed to list what display and the viewing distance when we are evaluating a BD for a score in the Tiers. My scores are still derived from my 60" Pioneer KURO and a couple of the latest Panasonic plasmas.
No need to buy a 4K TV until better standards than what we currently have for bluray are available. And it definitely has to be OLED. No way am i buying a 4K LCD. I don't get people buying 4K LCD's right now. You're basically just buying more pixels. There is no improved color, chroma, 10 bit, and other PQ attributes. I'm fine with my 60 kuro until a superior standard is made for 4K and OLED displays are made in 70" sizes.
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post #21663 of 21909 Old 07-15-2014, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edlittle View Post
I agree with your assessment on The Walking Dead. Breaking Bad is also very lacking in PQ department. It seems AMC is not very consistent.
I will say this...the PQ on The Walking Dead has improved, though even now black levels are usually a mess during night scenes or in poorly-lit interiors. You are right about AMC being inconsistent, for Hell on Wheels is usually sharp as a tack with tons of detail. Even black levels are pretty good in that series.

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post #21664 of 21909 Old 07-15-2014, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
No need to buy a 4K TV until better standards than what we currently have for bluray are available. And it definitely has to be OLED. No way am i buying a 4K LCD. I don't get people buying 4K LCD's right now. You're basically just buying more pixels. There is no improved color, chroma, 10 bit, and other PQ attributes. I'm fine with my 60 kuro until a superior standard is made for 4K and OLED displays are made in 70" sizes.
For the most part I agree with you, though there are exceptions to the rule. I'm speaking especially of the new line of Vizio, and in particular their Reference Series which blew away the competition at the CES in Vegas this year. It does have 10 bit and just as important it has Full Array Local Dimming (FALD) with 364 zones. That makes for reference quality black levels and superb contrast. But even there it does have one negative common to all LCD/LEDs....the brightness washes out when you watch it from a wide angle (i.e. off-axis).

Like you I'm perfectly content with my KURO and hope it lasts until the OLED display is perfected and marketable (in size and price).

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post #21665 of 21909 Old 07-15-2014, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djoberg View Post
For the most part I agree with you, though there are exceptions to the rule. I'm speaking especially of the new line of Vizio, and in particular their Reference Series which blew away the competition at the CES in Vegas this year. It does have 10 bit and just as important it has Full Array Local Dimming (FALD) with 364 zones. That makes for reference quality black levels and superb contrast. But even there it does have one negative common to all LCD/LEDs....the brightness washes out when you watch it from a wide angle (i.e. off-axis).

Like you I'm perfectly content with my KURO and hope it lasts until the OLED display is perfected and marketable (in size and price).
Yeah i heard about that Vizio TV but i would rather wait for reviews to see if it actually holds up to what it claims. CES is a place for show and tell. Half the stuff that's shown doesn't even get released. Remember Vizio's 72 display they showed years ago at CES? It was vaporware. The TV sounds very promising but i want see it in person myself at a store. The panel is 10 bit yes but the point is 4K doesn't have a set standard yet. I want a full set of new specifications before i even think about buying anything 4K. By the way, i'm currently bidding on ebay for 300 ROTE thanks to your PQ review. I told you i like reading them.

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post #21666 of 21909 Old 07-15-2014, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phantom Stranger View Post
I'm not sure when I will make the jump, especially with the impending death of plasma technology. Panasonic and now Samsung have announced they are leaving plasma behind since 4K technology is poised to take over the market.

Technically we are supposed to list what display and the viewing distance when we are evaluating a BD for a score in the Tiers. My scores are still derived from my 60" Pioneer KURO and a couple of the latest Panasonic plasmas.
I personally am in no rush to jump to 4K. It doesn't interest me at all at this point and there is almost zero content still.

I am a die hard plasma fan. I use my Panasonic ST60 for all reviewing.
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post #21667 of 21909 Old 07-15-2014, 07:07 PM
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Oh yes how could i forget 4K content! There's basically none.

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post #21668 of 21909 Old 07-15-2014, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post
No need to buy a 4K TV until better standards than what we currently have for bluray are available. And it definitely has to be OLED. No way am i buying a 4K LCD. I don't get people buying 4K LCD's right now. You're basically just buying more pixels. There is no improved color, chroma, 10 bit, and other PQ attributes. I'm fine with my 60 kuro until a superior standard is made for 4K and OLED displays are made in 70" sizes.
Amen!

Resolution/pixel count is only one of many factors that contribute to PQ, and its not even the most important IMO

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post #21669 of 21909 Old 07-15-2014, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post
Oh yes how could i forget 4K content! There's basically none.
Yeah it makes me laugh when I think of the fact that we can now stream "4K" content. What a joke! Netflix can't even stream 1080p properly let alone 4k. And the audio... forget about it.

Sorry... let's get back on topic.
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post #21670 of 21909 Old 07-16-2014, 08:50 AM
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Back on topic!

Rise of the Planet of the Apes

First off, the movie. I have seen this once before, on my 40" Sony EX640, which has significant flashlighting and overall worse PQ. I loved this movie, especially the focus on the apes and the amazing amount of emotion that can be felt from them. The two climaxes - in the refuge and in San Francisco were beautifully done. I highly recommend the movie.

For PQ, I was most astonished by the facial details. Up close, mid range, and even distance shots of faces were very crisp. I didn't notice any soft shots at all. Outdoor shots were stunning, especially in the redwoods and on the bridge. Hair was amazing. The way that the apes moved was so organic and lifelike that I thought at times they used real apes. This is truly a reference disc, although I wouldn't say demo level. I would recommend:

Tier 1.0

Edit: thanks wattheF, it is the opposite, demo level, but not reference.


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post #21671 of 21909 Old 07-16-2014, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edlittle View Post
Back on topic!

Rise of the Planet of the Apes

First off, the movie. I have seen this once before, on my 40" Sony EX640, which has significant flashlighting and overall worse PQ. I loved this movie, especially the focus on the apes and the amazing amount of emotion that can be felt from them. The two climaxes - in the refuge and in San Francisco were beautifully done. I highly recommend the movie.

For PQ, I was most astonished by the facial details. Up close, mid range, and even distance shots of faces were very crisp. I didn't notice any soft shots at all. Outdoor shots were stunning, especially in the redwoods and on the bridge. Hair was amazing. The way that the apes moved was so organic and lifelike that I thought at times they used real apes. This is truly a reference disc, although I wouldn't say demo level. I would recommend:

Tier 1.0
Strike that...reverse it? I think you mean, this is a demo disc, although not reference level...???

Thanks for the review. I will have to check this one out.
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post #21672 of 21909 Old 07-16-2014, 10:18 AM
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Ah of course! Added an edit. Apparently the sequel that just came out is even better than this one.

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post #21673 of 21909 Old 07-16-2014, 03:23 PM
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Nice review Ed! Keep them coming

Just ordered Veronica Mars blu-ray from dvdworldusa.com

Not released here in the UK so import it is....worth it for Kristen Bell ;-)
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post #21674 of 21909 Old 07-16-2014, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
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Ah of course! Added an edit. Apparently the sequel that just came out is even better than this one.
I just read a number of rave reviews on Amazon. 4 1/2 stars for an average...not bad for a sequel!

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post #21675 of 21909 Old 07-16-2014, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by rusky_g View Post
Nice review Ed! Keep them coming

Just ordered Veronica Mars blu-ray from dvdworldusa.com

Not released here in the UK so import it is....worth it for Kristen Bell ;-)
It was a surprisingly good movie with surprisingly good PQ.
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post #21676 of 21909 Old 07-16-2014, 06:37 PM
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I agree with your assessment on The Walking Dead. Breaking Bad is also very lacking in PQ department. It seems AMC is not very consistent.
neither is great but BB is a bit better than WD.
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post #21677 of 21909 Old 07-16-2014, 07:24 PM
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Terminator Salvation

Really nice black levels and colors (keeping in mind the post-apocalyptic brown on brown palette). Strong detail except on CGI heavy sequences. Some shaky cam photography also reduced the viewer experience of detail. Without these detriments, I think it's upper 1 territory. As it is, I'd peg it at 1.75.

Tier Recommendation: 1.75

Calm the muddy water, it becomes clear.
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post #21678 of 21909 Old 07-17-2014, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mweflen View Post
Terminator Salvation

Really nice black levels and colors (keeping in mind the post-apocalyptic brown on brown palette). Strong detail except on CGI heavy sequences. Some shaky cam photography also reduced the viewer experience of detail. Without these detriments, I think it's upper 1 territory. As it is, I'd peg it at 1.75.

Tier Recommendation: 1.75
I agree with each point. I assume this the "Director's Cut" that you saw....if so we're in same ballpark with my placement being at 1.5.

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post #21679 of 21909 Old 07-18-2014, 09:00 PM
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The Man from Snowy River

Okay, so it's obvious this 1982 Australian Western will never win any beauty contests (PQ-wise, that is), but I'm here to tell you that it's light-years ahead of its DVD counterpart! I had doubts of this in the opening scene, for inside the Craig mountain home (at night with low-lighting) we are immediately treated to less-than-stellar blacks levels, a bit of noise, and unflattering depth and details. But my doubts were short-lived as the next scene shifted to a daytime scene in the woods where details leaped off the screen along with a good measure of sharpness and clarity. As scene after scene unfolded it became apparent that inconsistency would reign supreme but thankfully the majority of the scenes were, as stated above, huge improvements over the DVD.

Do you like grain? Let's hope so, for grain was left unchecked, perhaps to a fault in some shots (they appeared somewhat *gritty* and in a couple of nighttime shots came across as *noise*). In other shots it took on a very pleasing "film-like" look.

Colors were bland, so this won't help in the final analysis. Black levels could be very good during night scenes (and the black bars could rarely be detected next to the surrounding bezel), but at times they faltered or crushed. Contrast was *okay*, though it did spike in one or two daytime, outdoor scenes, leaving us with a washed-out look.

Not much more can be said. Am I glad I made the purchase? Oh yeah! The movie still holds a charm for our family (though some will find it too slow-paced and simple compared to "modern-day" westerns) and the obvious improvements over the DVD preclude any idea of "buyer's remorse." As I stated, there were a lot of inconsistencies from scene to scene (with some veering towards Tier Gold and others dropping ever-so-close to the dreaded bottom tiers), but I'm inclined to put it smack-dab in the middle of the tiers....

Tier Recommendation: 3.25

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post #21680 of 21909 Old 07-19-2014, 02:42 AM
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PQ disc of 2014 so far guys?
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post #21681 of 21909 Old 07-19-2014, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
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PQ disc of 2014 so far guys?
I cheated a little and went back through my written reviews to come up with a short list to begin the discussion. Working backward from today, the discs that jumped out at me include Wolf Creek 2, Still Mine, Veronica Mars, The Wolf of Wall Street, The Agony & The Ecstasy, Archer: Season 4, and Ninja II: Shadow of a Tear if you want to count a BD released on December 31st of last year. Other ones under consideration are animated films like The Lego Movie. I'll be getting to Noah later this week, so I can't discuss its merits. I am sure there are other films that I have missed or forgotten in the conversation.

It's probably not the absolute-best looking Blu-ray of 2014 but I was mightily impressed by The Agony and The Ecstasy's transfer.


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post #21682 of 21909 Old 07-19-2014, 04:46 PM
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^^^^^^^^

Russ, I'm assuming you are asking for the BEST PQ in a movie in 2014. I cheated too by looking at Phantom's Spreadsheet (though I quit filling out the Entry Form for New Scores back in April, so I couldn't check all my reviews).

I put 6 Blus in Tier 0 as of April:

Ninja 2: Shadow of a Tear
Ender's Game
Gravity
The Smurfs 2
Frozen
Lego Movie

I can't recall which one "blew me away," but perhaps it was Ender's Game for live action and The Smurfs 2 for the animated category.

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post #21683 of 21909 Old 07-19-2014, 05:45 PM
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Yup, Ender's Game and Smurfs 2 are tops for the year so far for me.
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post #21684 of 21909 Old 07-19-2014, 05:51 PM
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Transcendence

recommendation: Tier 1.75*

The picture quality is a little disappointing for noted cinematographer Wally Pfister's first film as director. There is nothing grossly wrong with the BD from Warner Bros, this is simply a step behind the extraordinary video seen in big-budget Hollywood films currently released. I think Johnny Depp is getting filtered to mask his true age.


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post #21685 of 21909 Old 07-19-2014, 06:20 PM
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I just remembered that I put House of Cards in Tier Blu recently, but it still didn't beat out Enders Game in the live action category.

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post #21686 of 21909 Old 07-19-2014, 09:03 PM
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The Big Gundown


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The Big Gundown

recommendation: Tier 2.25*

I pushed this excellent Spaghetti Western to the top of my queue after a member of AVS privately contacted me about it for the PQ Tiers with their own review. It's not the first time someone has sent me a private rating about a disc, some readers want to contribute rankings outside the glare of a public discussion in this thread. Which is fine by me, my inbox is always open for reviews or other concerns.

I had been wanting to pick up the collector's edition for The Big Gundown anyway, so this gave me a good excuse to go out and finally buy it. Put out in a lavish four-disc set by Grindhouse Releasing this past December, the 1966 Technicolor film looks absolutely great in 1080p. The new 2K film scan from the original negative has utterly film-like fidelity, perfectly replicating its natural grain structure in crisp detail. A solid AVC video encode runs at decent parameters without compression artifacts. Grindhouse Releasing made the wise decision to put the English-language version on its own BD, allowing the longer director's cut seen in Europe to breathe on another BD. Both versions are given wonderful presentations.

The film elements are in excellent condition, almost completely free of debris and damage. The 2.39:1-framed composition retains its proper presentation with very good sharpness and full color saturation. It resembles a beautiful film print of the era that has avoided filtering or other detrimental video processes. Simply a high-quality film scan that shows The Big Gundown's cinematography in its best possible light.

While it occasionally reaches a level of aptitude worthy of Tier One, its picture quality more comfortably resides in Tier Two. That is not a knock, this perfect transfer of vintage film would merit a much higher score under a normal reviewing system. An easy recommendation if you want to see this movie in all its glory.
I have nothing to add to Phantom's spot-on review, except to say that I did notice one scene where it looked like it was out of focus for a few seconds. This "Spaghetti Western" was definitely better than the "Australian Western" I viewed last night, though I must say that some of the scenes in the last night's film had better details in some of the close-ups (and yet it had a lot more flaws than this one). I'm inclined to put it here....

Tier Recommendation: 2.75*

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post #21687 of 21909 Old 07-20-2014, 05:28 AM
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LONE SURVIVOR

Just re-watched, this time on BD.

Excellent PQ! Great clarity and sharpness. Textures and details, most notably in closeups were top notch. I only caught 2 shots in one indoor scene that looked a bit softer. Contrast seemed spot on. Black levels overall were great but faltered a bit on a few scenes. Shadow detail was consistently very good. Color seemed nicely balanced.

Overall I liked how clean the presentation was. There were no signs of artifacts and zero noticeable grain.

There were a couple scenes towards the end that were stunning and made me say WOW!

I know the PQ is not quite up there with the best reference BD's, but it's not far behind. For me it is straddling the line of Tier Blu and Gold, but based on the couple minor "flaws" I mentioned I will go with...

EDIT** I changed my mind. I decided the few "flaws" are so minor that they should not and cannot knock this BD out of Tier 0. It's positives are simply too strong and easily outweigh these nitpicks.

RANKING- TIER 0 (towards the bottom)

Viewed on 60" Panasonic ST60 from 6.5 feet, using PS3 slim and Darbee Darblet.

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post #21688 of 21909 Old 07-20-2014, 10:33 AM
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Yep, I did mean your favorite PQ releases of 2014, thanks for the feedback guys!

I Frankenstein

I have to say I really liked how this film looked. I loved the dark feel, the cool golds and blues. In some places it looked very pretty, the sweeping shots of the Cathedral and Gargolyes being my favorites. Many scenes provided excellent detail, dimension and clarity, the picture in general appearing clear and nicely refined. I did however struggle with black levels which, too often, appeared grey and murky. Adjusting the gamma level on my TV set served to remedy this a little but it's not something you should have to do and will reflect in my ranking.

In summary, this disc offered some brilliant Tier 0 moments, murky blacks aside, and overall it really appealed to my visiual bias.

Tier 1.5


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post #21689 of 21909 Old 07-20-2014, 10:58 AM
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Pacific Rim

Finally got around to rewatching this on the new M-Series. I went through some other reviews and I agree with most points. The blacks were beautiful and I didn't see any black crush. Colors were definitely astounding and bright. Facial details weren't the sharpest, but they were overall very good. Clarity and details in outdoor scenes otherwise were fantastic, specifically during the Hong Kong fight, showing the full possibilities of a night + rain battle. CGI was fantastic and realistic, and it really showed with the fantastic PQ. Overall, one of the better releases I've seen on the new TV.

Movie wise - I loved it. The cheesy lines, the corny action, the huge scale fights, everything was amazing. The sound quality was fantastic as well and would have given the sub a workout if I had turned it on. I think it definitely could go in Tier 0, but towards the bottom.

Recommendation: Tier 0 (near Ender's Game)

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post #21690 of 21909 Old 07-20-2014, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Famouss View Post
Phantom, quite a bit off topic, but since you seem to watch your fair share of anime, have you had any chance to catch the new series "Zankyou no Terror"? It's the most hyped new anime of the summer and it's truly a beauty so far.
I have not seen it yet but I am usually a couple of months behind on my anime watching. For the better shows I will usually wait until I can watch it on Blu-ray unless there is massive hype for it. Are there any particular anime BDs you'd like me to score for the PQ Tiers?


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