Opera on Blu Ray? Can it be done??? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 33 Old 07-17-2007, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Of course, I love movies using my Samsung 1200 blu ray player. I am also an avid SACD fan. I have avoided purchasing Opera titles in SACD as I see this as a natural for Blu Ray and UNCOMPRESSED PCM or some other high quality audio format.

Any thoughts? Can the audio match the superb video presentation?

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post #2 of 33 Old 07-17-2007, 10:02 PM
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any lossless audio format can do that, as can uncompressed. lossless means lossless.

Something like Opera I would hope is sampled at 96Khz, though. It sounds way more lifelike than a 48Khz sample.
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post #3 of 33 Old 07-18-2007, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pilot View Post

Of course, I love movies using my Samsung 1200 blu ray player. I am also an avid SACD fan. I have avoided purchasing Opera titles in SACD as I see this as a natural for Blu Ray and UNCOMPRESSED PCM or some other high quality audio format.

Any thoughts? Can the audio match the superb video presentation?

marcus

I understand that Lipinski is working on a BluRay opera release and, if their past performance is any indication, it should be superb. Of course, I prefer SACD as the visual aspects bore me after 1-2 sittings while the music lives on.

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post #4 of 33 Old 07-18-2007, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I understand that Lipinski is working on a BluRay opera release and, if their past performance is any indication, it should be superb. Of course, I prefer SACD as the visual aspects bore me after 1-2 sittings while the music lives on.

I would rather have both audio and video. How bout seeing something like Mozarts Le nozze di Figaro (Marriage of figaro) in high definition with 5 channel 96 kHz/24bit uncompressed pcm audio or Dolby TrueHD?
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post #5 of 33 Old 07-18-2007, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donricouga View Post

I would rather have both audio and video. How bout seeing something like Mozarts Le nozze di Figaro (Marriage of figaro) in high definition with 5 channel 96 kHz/24bit uncompressed pcm audio or Dolby TrueHD?

Sure. Just a matter of preference.

I have a number of operas on DVD and very few are worth seeing after I've seen them once or twice, not because of technical quality but because the staging/acting is either unimaginative or inept. OTOH, some of the same folks sound pretty good.

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post #6 of 33 Old 07-18-2007, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donricouga View Post

I would rather have both audio and video. How bout seeing something like Mozarts Le nozze di Figaro (Marriage of figaro) in high definition with 5 channel 96 kHz/24bit uncompressed pcm audio or Dolby TrueHD?

I would pay almost any price for that; but also agree somewhat with Kal; it's a rare opera production that matches the incredible music value... That said, there's no reason a BD can't provide both with an associated sound-track only... in fact, I would love to see that from BD movies an extra I think would really sell - HD soundtracks...

ken
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post #7 of 33 Old 07-18-2007, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey there Kal, glad to see you over here on blu ray too!

You know I love SACD. But, what I was trying to get at was an SACD quality recording on Blu Ray. Thus, if my mood is to include visuals, I could turn on the projector. And, I must admit, my wife seems to be more impressed with music AND video. Gotta keep her happy too ya know.

Another aspect of my question: Does anyone think Blu Ray can give us both high def visuals AND audio quality similar to SACD? If so, I just think opera is a natural for the blu ray medium.

marcus

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Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Sure. Just a matter of preference.

I have a number of operas on DVD and very few are worth seeing after I've seen them once or twice, not because of technical quality but because the staging/acting is either unimaginative or inept. OTOH, some of the same folks sound pretty good.


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post #8 of 33 Old 07-18-2007, 06:31 PM
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I get your point and I have no real objection; I was just making my point.

BTW, technically, a DSD track can be included in BluRay. Not that DSD is likely but 5.1 uncompressed LPCM is a reality.

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post #9 of 33 Old 07-18-2007, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Pilot View Post

Another aspect of my question: Does anyone think Blu Ray can give us both high def visuals AND audio quality similar to SACD? If so, I just think opera is a natural for the blu ray medium.

marcus

BD gives us that already IMO. Dolby HD lossless (MLP) and PCM are equivalent quality to SACD IMO. After that it's only a question of production and sound mixing quality. (Not withstanding the DVD-A vs SACD argument of course)

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post #10 of 33 Old 07-18-2007, 07:47 PM
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I would snatch a quality blu-ray opera in a heartbeat. Just in case some marketing representatives are reading this thread.
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post #11 of 33 Old 07-18-2007, 10:07 PM
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It seems that there are quite a few operas recorded in HD. There is a clip on one of Pioneer's BD demo discs that has quite a few scenes from different operas and they all look fantastic. But as far as their sound quality and performaces are concerned, I haven't a clue.

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post #12 of 33 Old 07-19-2007, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dicey View Post

It seems that there are quite a few operas recorded in HD. There is a clip on one of Pioneer's BD demo discs that has quite a few scenes from different operas and they all look fantastic.

No doubt. We used to get opera in HD on DiscoveryHD every Friday evening but that's long gone. Nonetheless, the recordings do exist.

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post #13 of 33 Old 07-20-2007, 11:32 PM
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Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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i did what rboster would have wished and searched for a thread, thus resurrecting this 7month old thread.

anyways, looking at this http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/sh...ray_Debut/1498

does anyone know where these releases can be seen w/o plunking down the price of purchase? outside of netflix and blockbuster, which i don't believe carry these type of items, is there anyway to see how they look/sound w/o buying them?
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post #15 of 33 Old 02-22-2008, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donricouga View Post

I would rather have both audio and video. How bout seeing something like Mozarts Le nozze di Figaro (Marriage of figaro) in high definition with 5 channel 96 kHz/24bit uncompressed pcm audio or Dolby TrueHD?

Oh, yesssss!!!!!!
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post #16 of 33 Old 02-22-2008, 05:53 PM
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Actually this production is NOT an opera, only incidental music to the play: not to be confused with the opera with the same title by Britten. The ballet is an add-on for this production.

Audiosceptics accept audio trials using 25 people. A recent Oxford study with over 353,000 patient records from 639 separate clinical trials shows for every 1,000 people taking diclofenac or ibuprofen there would be 3 additional heart attacks, 4 more cases of heart failure and 1 death every year.

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post #17 of 33 Old 01-08-2009, 05:29 AM
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I'm very disappointed in the slow uptake of opera on Blu-ray. I have lots of DVDs of operas with various region coding. I take what I can get. Most of them are lacking in both image quality and sound quality.

I guess it's a matter of profits. A blockbuster movie with car chases and gun fire gets the full technical treatment. The highest form of art is given the lowest priority.
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post #18 of 33 Old 01-08-2009, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by barryz View Post

I'm very disappointed in the slow uptake of opera on Blu-ray. I have lots of DVDs of operas with various region coding. I take what I can get. Most of them are lacking in both image quality and sound quality.

I guess it's a matter of profits. A blockbuster movie with car chases and gun fire gets the full technical treatment. The highest form of art is given the lowest priority.



Perhaps you haven't been looking hard enough? AVS has an an entire thread dedicated to opera in hi-def (all Blu-ray by now), with a ton of releases, almost all in lossless audio. One of the companies even has a company rep that regularly posts there.

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post #19 of 33 Old 01-08-2009, 07:27 AM
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I have lots of DVDs of operas with various region coding. I take what I can get.

And if you are familiar with the history of collecting opera on audio, many of the most desirable opera recordings are not the most up-to-date in sound. The definitive Tosca and Falstaff are in mono.

As the tops in opera on video are decided as the years go by, many of them will turn out to be in videotaping of varying fidelity.

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post #20 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 12:09 AM
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Perhaps you haven't been looking hard enough? AVS has an an entire thread dedicated to opera in hi-def (all Blu-ray by now), with a ton of releases, almost all in lossless audio. One of the companies even has a company rep that regularly posts there.

Do you mean a ton of scheduled releases? I've seen a few titles advertised on the net, but so far nothing actually in stock and no reviews available. Note that I wrote I was disappointed in the speed of uptake.
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post #21 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 12:22 AM
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I have lots of DVDs of operas with various region coding. I take what I can get.

And if you are familiar with the history of collecting opera on audio, many of the most desirable opera recordings are not the most up-to-date in sound. The definitive Tosca and Falstaff are in mono.

As the tops in opera on video are decided as the years go by, many of them will turn out to be in videotaping of varying fidelity.

Of course, but that is another issue. There would probably not be much benefit in releasing the few recordings of Maria Callas on Blu-ray.

Perhaps the problem is that relatively little opera in general has been recorded on film or on full HD video so far, but certainly some has been, and quite a few years ago too, so why not start with them.
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post #22 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 08:36 AM
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Do you mean a ton of scheduled releases? I've seen a few titles advertised on the net, but so far nothing actually in stock and no reviews available. Note that I wrote I was disappointed in the speed of uptake.

Amazon has more than two dozen Blu-rays listed and all of them are in stock except for a handful that will be released in a couple of weeks. Customer reviews are few, but you can get more details at http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/bluray.php.

And if you are looking for an opera to begin with, try Die Walküre from Bel Air Classiques. Wagner in 1080p with DTS HD 5.1 sound. I've written a review that should get posted on Amazon by tomorrow.
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post #23 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barryz View Post

Do you mean a ton of scheduled releases? I've seen a few titles advertised on the net, but so far nothing actually in stock and no reviews available. Note that I wrote I was disappointed in the speed of uptake.

Opera wasn't released particularly fast or in large quantities on DVD either. In fact, I'd be willing to bet there's as much or more opera content in the same timeframe for Blu-ray than there was on DVD.

FWIW, in addition to the two dozen titles mentioned earlier, there are another half-dozen or so already announced.

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post #24 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Sure. Just a matter of preference.

I have a number of operas on DVD and very few are worth seeing after I've seen them once or twice, not because of technical quality but because the staging/acting is either unimaginative or inept. OTOH, some of the same folks sound pretty good.

Kal or anyone,

Back in the 80's on Pioneer (I think) LD there was a great production of Le nozze di Figaro. It was shot on film (open matt 1.37) and was an off stage production on sets (like a feature film) with edits and no audience. Are you familiar with this film and know of the rights?

The sound was 2 channel LPCM and quite good (pre AC-3 (DD5.1)).
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post #25 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 12:41 PM
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Back in the 80's on Pioneer (I think) LD there was a great production of Le nozze di Figaro.

The Metropolitan Opera Guide to Opera on Video suggests that the one you are trying to remember is Karl Bohm's and Jean-Pierre Ponnelle's version with the VPO from 1976. It seems to be a DG release.

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post #26 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 02:09 PM
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Yes, this was a good one. I still have it in my collection. In fact, I just put it on. 4:3, digital stereo. Not sure about the open matt though (or how 1.37 can even be called open matt). There is no letterbox in the 4:3 frame. If you zoom you'll ruin the composition and lose the subtitles. Still sounds and looks pretty decent (for LD, that is).
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post #27 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by R o d View Post

Yes, this was a good one...Not sure about the open matt though (or how 1.37 can even be called open matt)...Still sounds and looks pretty decent (for LD, that is).

While I said open matt I should have said Full Frame, no matt or Academy. 1.85 (and 2.35 Super 35) just take the same 1.37 frame and add mattes to it. So contemporary 1.37 is usually called open matt (or foolscreen) since the OAR is usually 1.85 (or 2.35).
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post #28 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 07:30 PM
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Amazon has more than two dozen Blu-rays listed and all of them are in stock except for a handful that will be released in a couple of weeks. Customer reviews are few, but you can get more details at http://www.prestoclassical.co.uk/bluray.php.

And if you are looking for an opera to begin with, try Die Walküre from Bel Air Classiques. Wagner in 1080p with DTS HD 5.1 sound. I've written a review that should get posted on Amazon by tomorrow.

Wow! Thanks for the link, Rod. I've saved it. I've seen some of these titles advertised in Australia, but not all of them. Checking on the internet just now, it seems that the first of them are estimated to be in stock within the next few days. I'm glad that these titles are at last starting to ship. It's now a matter of finding out which supplier offers the best price.

I look forward to reading your review of Die Walkure. My experience with operas on DVD has been that often image and sound quality seem a bit less than the medium can support, as though budget contraints have prevented the producers from pulling out all the stops or using the best equipment.
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post #29 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by JBlacklow View Post

Opera wasn't released particularly fast or in large quantities on DVD either. In fact, I'd be willing to bet there's as much or more opera content in the same timeframe for Blu-ray than there was on DVD.

It was from an Australian perspective. My first DVD player was a Creative Labs player I installed in my computer and set to Region 1 because the only discs available were from the US. I was buying operas and ballets over the internet before hardly any blockbuster movies were available in Australia. The Nureyev and Margot Fonteyn Swan Lake was the first DVD I bought, followed by a number of La Scala productions such as Don Giovanni conducted by Riccardo Muti (produced by Image Entertainment). The discs were all produced in the USA and were Region 1 and NTSC.

I was fortunate that software soon became available that could defeat the region coding, and of course, some time later stand-alone DVD players were eventually produced by companies like Pioneer that are region-free.
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post #30 of 33 Old 01-09-2009, 10:47 PM
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Everyone,

I've been experiencing some channel balance issues with BD operas. For example, in Die Zauberflote (Opus Arte), I find that the vocals do not always come out of the soundstage in a position that correlates to their visual position on stage. In one blatant example, the singer is on the far right, and his voice emerges from left center!

Many classic opera recordings, both LP and CD/SACD, exhibit much more accuracy than the BD mentioned. Is it possible that the engineers are just not familiar enough with multichannel recording of a live event?

I cite the Decca/London LP of Rigoletto, where you can follow the movement of the singers around the soundstage with your eyes shut! This accurate tracking via auditory means should be mandatory on BD, where you watch the singer walk away while their voice remains anchored in one spot. If you have the visuals, the sound tracking has to match.

I have a pretty revealing system, quite similar to Kal Rubinson's. It's been calibrated for BD with the HD DVE Basics BD and an SPL meter, so channel balance issues are in the recording.

Anyone else experiencing this situation with BD opera?

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