Pirates of the Caribbean, big framing problems!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roma_victor View Post

Please don't get discouraged by the few people here who irrationally believes in defending their format of choice or bashing the "enemy" format above discussing the merits/issues for a particular transfer (my sig is meant to poke fun at such people)
- this was a great find and let's all work on getting this issue fixed.

And that's fine, but I doubt seriously that if this was a mistake that Disney would replace all the BD's they've sold to date. It would cost way too much especially since no one has complained till now.

It could very well be that future pressings would be fixed and sold.

It could also well be that if you and I were to complain enough we may get a fixed copy as an exchange.......just speculating.
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post #92 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:41 AM
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Denner........please let Disney know if you haven't already done so and include the pic you took.

I would be curious to hear what they have to say.
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post #93 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:43 AM
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Disney may be unwilling to re-issue POTC on BRD if it's just one misframed shot. If there are other framing issues though the argument for doing so becomes stronger. Someone is going to have to go through the movie and do a shot by shot DVD to BRD comparison so all framing issues can be identified. Any volunteers?

I think the misframing was not noticed before because the shot is rather brief. Only a few seconds followed pretty quickly by a close up.
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post #94 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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@ roma_victor

Thanks man :-)

I am not a supporter of either format, I have both, but I am a supporter of great HD, and if we let company's like Disney get away with things like this, then we will newer see great HD.....

If people had not bashed the first Fifth Element release so hard, I don't think we would have seen a re-release so soon!

We need to be objective to what the studios throw at us or else they will try to make us settle for what ever is cheaper for them, and that would be not to correct their mistakes!
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post #95 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:49 AM
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TO the OP, why would you have any HD format media if you supposedly own an LG MZ 42PZ45V? That set does not support anything above 480i/p. With a panel resolution of 852 x 480, it will not display SD PAL properly let alone anything HD.

Ask Paidgeek to find out whether the new framing intentional. I will check my copy of Pirates to see if this is a European release issue or if it affects North American copies as well. You, forgive me if I don't believe you given that you don't list any HD hardware in your profile.

The scene with the gun in the forground may have been reframed for dramatic effect to show the gun nozzle to convey a certain feeling. Until we know whether the DVD framing was correct, whether this change was intention and which framing is more faithful to the theatrical presentation, we should not jump to conclusions or demand a refund.

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post #96 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by House View Post

Couldn't find the BBC HD version, here's the Pro7 version which is probably the same master anyway;




Huge difference.



No biggie, you get less of the head, but more of the boots/trousers, so you're not losing any frames as such.
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post #97 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I started it so I might as well finish it, but the only way that I can do comparrison shots of the different versions is with my camera and my projector and I don't think that the pictures would bee accurate enough ?
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post #98 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amel View Post

crap

I am throwing my PS3 and switching over to HDDVD

LOL That's a good one.

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post #99 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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I now own; Toshiba HDE1, Playstation 3, Denon 2307, Denon 1930, 72" Projecta fixed frame screen and a Sim2 D35.

Sorry that I have not updatet my profile for a while....
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post #100 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:55 AM
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Wow, one scene where norrington is giving you less head ! Big deal.
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post #101 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nox View Post

Did you read the entire thread? Do you have this BD? It's not just this one scene. This is through the entire movie. Though, this does represent the worst of it.

Yup. I have it, and along with pretty much every other person who's watched it never even noticed it.
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post #102 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:57 AM
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I need to see more examples. Either way, I watched the movie prior to this. Reviewers, Tens of thousands of people have all watched this movie. You are the first that I know of who had spotted this problem with framing.

Yeah, this one scene is pretty bad. But no one noticed, and everyone who bought this film has enjoyed watching it.

The acting, story, picture quality, audio quality are all exellent on this film.

It sucks that the movie isnt perfect, but I dont think it detracts from the experience of the film that people have already watched. The movie has been out for months now and the port obviously took a lot of effort.

If it bothers you, you have the right to complain and you should. But just because it bothers you, doesnt mean it bothers everyone. You obviously have a keen eye for framing, due to your Directing background.

Remember, mistakes happen, people are human. This got through QA, reviewers and tens of thousands of customers.... before one person noticed.
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post #103 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 11:59 AM
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This is not as big an issue as it is started to become. You are not losing more of a image. Just everything is a bit higher. It personally does not make a difference to me if I could see his head more in that scene. That scene is only about 3 seconds long, and after about the 3rd word he turns to the old guy and you can see his face completely. If they re-issue or come out with a statement about this then I will worry about it. For now, it really is not a big deal. Just my opinion.
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post #104 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denner View Post

@ roma_victor

Thanks man :-)

Actually, thank you for catching the issue.

Quote:


If people had not bashed the first Fifth Element release so hard, I don't think we would have seen a re-release so soon!

We need to be objective to what the studios throw at us or else they will try to make us settle for what ever is cheaper for them, and that would be not to correct their mistakes!

Agree 100%. As movie buffs and A/V geeks, we need to be our own best advocates to get the best quality movies and transfers.
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post #105 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddiecarr View Post

No biggie, you get less of the head, but more of the boots/trousers, so you're not losing any frames as such.

personally i would like alot more head...
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post #106 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Well I will try to come up with more framing issues and examples, but my issue here is that it is just plain amateurish by Disney, and it is not the way the director intended it!!
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post #107 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:04 PM
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Why not give us the whole frame? I can stick black tape over my screen and do a better job!
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post #108 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahl77 View Post

Why are you talking about Prestige and Departed in this thread?

Don't ask me, stumlad quoted me from way before...
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post #109 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadbury8 View Post

yeah but since you knoow its there then isnt it going to just jump out at you? hehehe kind of like a bad pixel? (which i have never looked for and never will.)

Yeah, if I know in advance what to look for... then I would chuckle when I see it.

But its not going to ruin the experience. And the thing is.... its not very noticible. Even that one example looks terrible when pointed out.... tens of thousands of people watched, no one noticed.
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post #110 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cybersoga View Post

Why not give us the whole frame? I can stick black tape over my screen and do a better job!

Yeah, if they have all this extra picture.... why not fill the 16:9, and have an option for directors intent(where they put black bars on the top and bottom)
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post #111 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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It Is Not Just In One Scene, It Is In A Lot Of Scenes.....
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post #112 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:09 PM
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[quote=Denner;11461669]Well I will try to come up with more framing issues and examples, but my issue here is that it is just plain amateurish by Disney, and it is not the way the director intended it!![/QUOTE

You really don't know that. The Director may have decided to make some changes from his previous version.

My advice again to you is to seek an explanation from Disney before coming to a conclusion.
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post #113 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:13 PM
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The comparison to the Fifth Element is not the same even though I think I understand your reference. The Fifth Element was very soft and really could not be called "HD". Big difference.
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post #114 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denner View Post

Well I will try to come up with more framing issues and examples, but my issue here is that it is just plain amateurish by Disney, and it is not the way the director intended it!!

No, it's most likely not the way the director intended it and it's good that you found and reported it so that hopefully it will be fixed on future releases of the film. I'd even accept a replacement as long as the PQ/AQ is the same.

That said, it's not something worth throwing a tantrum about. I for one am very glad that I don't have a need for everything to be perfect. I can't imagine how disappointing life would be if I was so neurotic that I couldn't enjoy a very fun and enjoyable title because of this.
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post #115 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:17 PM
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I'll have to check my disc as well. Sounds like the same frame issues that Back to the Future DVD had.
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post #116 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:17 PM
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The misframed Universal Back to The Future films, (2 and 3 I believe, been awhile...) were still VERY watchable and I'll bet 99% of the people watching them wouldn't notice anything until it was pointed out. If it is throughout the film, then it's a mistake and should be remedied IMHO.

http://www.angelfire.com/film/bttf2/
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post #117 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freddiecarr View Post

No biggie, you get less of the head, but more of the boots/trousers, so you're not losing any frames as such.

Fascinated as I may be by boots and trousers, I do believe that the character's face is a bit more important element in this particular shot.
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post #118 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceperson View Post

No, it's most likely not the way the director intended it and it's good that you found and reported it so that hopefully it will be fixed on future releases of the film. I'd even accept a replacement as long as the PQ/AQ is the same.

That said, it's not something worth throwing a tantrum about. I for one am very glad that I don't have a need for everything to be perfect. I can't imagine how disappointing life would be if I was so neurotic that I couldn't enjoy a very fun and enjoyable title because of this.

I dont' think it's a question of needing everything to be perfect, but framing problems are a bigger issue to some people than others - different strokes for different folks.
For instance, I'm not terribly disturbed by EE and banding (as long as it's not major), but I understand that other people are more troubled by it. It bothers me when someone's head is cut off, and I certainly understand Denner, as a director with an eye and appreciation for such things, to be bothered by it.

Bottom line IMO is that we should be advocates for the best transfers (within reason) of the movies we love.
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post #119 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roma_victor View Post

I dont' think it's a question of needing everything to be perfect, but framing problems are a bigger issue to some people than others - different strokes for different folks.
For instance, I'm not terribly disturbed by EE and banding (as long as it's not major), but I understand that other people are more troubled by it. It bothers me when someone's head is cut off, and I certainly understand Denner, as a director with an eye and appreciation for such things, to be bothered by it.

Bottom line IMO is that we should be advocates for the best transfers (within reason) of the movies we love.

Hear, hear... If framing was generally a non-issue, most Cinemascope movies would be cropped to 1.78:1, because "Hey - it's HD, so it's all good!".
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post #120 of 602 Old 08-29-2007, 12:34 PM
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I am really surprised at the blasé attitude so many "enthusiasts" have about this misframing. While, in the grand scheme of things, it matters not, those of us who want the best in A/V should certainly be a bit peeved about such a flub, if it indeed is such. I suppose it is no big deal when scope movies are mutilated to "fit" a 16:9 screen. I feel like this thread is loaded with the "no black bars" individuals. Great PQ is one thing, but a mistake is a mistake.
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