Tier thread for audio - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2680 Old 04-26-2008, 08:45 PM
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Just finished watching The Orphanage. Great AQ I would probably rate it low tier 0 to high tier 1. The LFE is very accurate and the use of rear speakers is definitly there.

SEMPER FI
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post #542 of 2680 Old 04-26-2008, 08:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDog151 View Post

Just finished watching The Orphanage. Great AQ I would probably rate it low tier 0 to high tier 1. The LFE is very accurate and the use of rear speakers is definitly there.

I just finished it too. I've never been startled by that many recorded sounds before. And it's not because they're loud, they sound like they are right there. And they are spaced perfectly. There's no cheap stuff in this track.

Do not watch this movie alone if you have wooden floors.

Tier 0 all the way.

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post #543 of 2680 Old 04-27-2008, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Pearl Harbor and Patriot in Tier-0 ? Are you kidding me ? Both feature reference grade audio.

Agree and Agree!
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post #544 of 2680 Old 04-27-2008, 01:58 AM
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I don't really have enough experience with lossless soundtracks on Blu Ray to give any definitive takes on the sound quality, but I did see I, Robot the other day, and experienced the lossless sound, and I have to admit that I was slightly dissapointed. Having just seen the movie prior to the PS3 DTS update, I had to rent it again, cause of all the praise for the sound.

It definitely sounded good, but it didn't blow me out of the water or anything. I would expect reference level to blow me out of the water. In fact, I think Alvin and the Chipmunks was more impressive. I, Robot is much better demo material, but I actually was more impressed with the improvement that I heard in Alvin and the Chipmunks.

Again, I haven't had enough experience with these lossless soundtracks, only having my new receiver for about 3 weeks, but as far as I could tell, I, Robot while maybe one of the best Tier 0's, should be in Tier 0 and not the reference tier. Maybe we are going to actually need a tier inbetween Reference and Tier 0, and maybe I, Robot belongs there.

Also, as shocking as it may seem, I think Alvin and the Chipmunks is Tier 0, lol. Of course, understand that Alvin is heavy on the surround channels, but it does have a really strong clarity and crispness factor, that I was suprised by. Also, it must be understood that I've heard the regular DTS track many times, before finally hearing the DTS HD MA track. So, it may have been more of a case of me hearing such a big improvement, and that impressing me, rather than it clearly standing above other lossless tracks on Blu Ray.
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post #545 of 2680 Old 04-27-2008, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Just to clarify.... Disney hires the right sound crews that "do audio right."

Very few of the films that Disney releases are done on the lot by their crews, as is the case for most of the studios a good deal of the time of the time...

Just making sure credit goes where credit is due

FilmMixer:

I wasn't suggesting it was in-house talent. I know most of the studios doing this work are hired guns. I was just commenting that Disney has always taken a keen interest in the audio-side of film production. Their QC in that area has really been beyond reproach.

John
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post #546 of 2680 Old 04-27-2008, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lgans316 View Post

Pearl Harbor and Patriot in Tier-0 ? Are you kidding me ? Both feature reference grade audio.

I have not heard the lossless track for Pearl Harbor, but I own The Patriot and, while I have always loved the surround sound for this film, I have to diagree. It should be high-tier one (if we were ranking within tiers) or low tier 0.
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post #547 of 2680 Old 04-27-2008, 08:56 AM
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Patriot is Tier 0. Not enough small sonic details IMO for reference.

Same thing with Pearl Harbor. Although the surround use is near perfect. So, that could go either way.

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post #548 of 2680 Old 04-27-2008, 09:00 AM - Thread Starter
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taking I, Robot off reference for now.
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post #549 of 2680 Old 04-27-2008, 03:29 PM
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I know I may be in the minority, but if we are taking I Robot out of the reference tier, I suggest we take I Am Legend out as well. I thought I Robot sounded better, at least in my opinion.
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post #550 of 2680 Old 04-27-2008, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin12586 View Post

I know I may be in the minority, but if we are taking I Robot out of the reference tier, I suggest we take I Am Legend out as well. I thought I Robot sounded better, at least in my opinion.

No you're not alone, I recomended that it be removed too. Another person did as well.

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post #551 of 2680 Old 04-27-2008, 06:24 PM
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I think people are listening to I, Robot with extremely high expectations, hence the slight inevitable let-down. That's clearly reference level.
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post #552 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 01:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundGizzard View Post

I was impressed with Close Encounters. I didn't agree with the Blu-ray reviews about the sound being less than perfect. IMHO it's important to keep the released year in the back of your mind when viewing & listening to films like this.

Would you let a senior athlete compete with the current champs? Close Encounter is simply not in the league with today's soundtracks. Yes simply because of it's age, now if you wanna cut it some slack because of that is your business, but I wanna keep things consistent and real, so I won't, and I place it where I believe it belongs. YMMV.

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post #553 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 01:49 AM
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Hey all,
I just wanted to offer my thoughts and opinions on a few of the titles that are being debated as to their REFERENCE placements in Tier 0.
First off,I ROBOT is a Reference title through and through.
It was reference on DVD and it's reference on Blu.I Robot has all the traits of a high-quality,big budget soundtrack.Detail,clarity,solid-deep low end,enveloping surround useage,natural sounding voices,great music recording and very detailed and creative sound effects.Just listen to the detail in the sounds of all the various robots throughout the film for a prime example.
Yes,I Robot is not an all-out bombastic assult on the ears that say Underworld is,but to my ears I Robot is a way more pleasant and enjoyable film to listen to-and more importantly,it's a great sound mix! There is nothing to be underwhelmed or dissapointed by.
So bottom line,I vote to KEEP I Robot in the REFERENCE tier.
I Am Legend is not reference but is a solid Tier 0 title.
Both Pearl Harbor and The Patriot exemplify what great sound can do for the visuals-put you INTO the scene.Yes both films are 7 and 8 years old respectivley,but they still sound superb and are both Oscar nominees for Sound and Sound Effects Editing.Defintely Reference qualifications in my book........
Lastly I want to nominate TMNT for Tier 0 placement,as I noticed that it has not been ranked at all and it is truly an awesome sounding movie and deserves to be ranked alongside the current best of the best titles in Tier 0.
TMNT has virtually nothing to complain about soundwise and really enhances the story and the visuals.
1 vote for TMNT (DD 640kbps)
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post #554 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alexg75 View Post

Hey all,
I just wanted to offer my thoughts and opinions on a few of the titles that are being debated as to their REFERENCE placements in Tier 0.
First off,I ROBOT is a Reference title through and through.
It was reference on DVD and it's reference on Blu.I Robot has all the traits of a high-quality,big budget soundtrack.Detail,clarity,solid-deep low end,enveloping surround useage,natural sounding voices,great music recording and very detailed and creative sound effects.Just listen to the detail in the sounds of all the various robots throughout the film for a prime example.
Yes,I Robot is not an all-out bombastic assult on the ears that say Underworld is,but to my ears I Robot is a way more pleasant and enjoyable film to listen to-and more importantly,it's a great sound mix! There is nothing to be underwhelmed or dissapointed by.
So bottom line,I vote to KEEP I Robot in the REFERENCE tier.
I Am Legend is not reference but is a solid Tier 0 title.

Agreed, until I re-watch Die Hard 4 with full DTS-MA, this is the best sounding Blu-ray I have currently heard, Die Hard 4 is a close second.
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post #555 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 08:14 AM
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I have to agree with alexg75 that I, Robot has a reference level track. It probably received its reference grade due to its unrefined core, but if anything, the full DTS-HD MA had it much more cleaner. Bass response is smooth as peaking was not a problem like with the core, orchestral work is better realized, and tiny details--like Sonny's sounds due to movements, which is entirely too tinny in the core--are less an aggravation. The sound design itself is immersive, and it feels appropriate to the film. The opening sequence underwater is a clear example.

I, Robot's placement on the reference tier was not uncalled for, and just because it was not bombastic like Black Hawk Down or Live Free or Die Hard does not make it Tier 0. Ratatouille proves that. In fact, Live Free is a Tier 0 title, in my opinion, as is I Am Legend. Both are well-produced tracks, but both never sounded/felt as perfect as I, Robot, and both had scenes that could have been sonically better.
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post #556 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 08:14 AM
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Sorry for a second post, but Bram Stoker's Dracula has to go down a notch as well. The track sounds way too dated.
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post #557 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilDog151 View Post

Just finished watching The Orphanage. Great AQ I would probably rate it low tier 0 to high tier 1. The LFE is very accurate and the use of rear speakers is definitly there.

Not sure how one can actually concentrate on hearing this movie and taking the time to see it when it's audio is in Spanish and has to be read.
I was quiet dissapointed that I could not change audio to English so I could actually view and hear the movie so I never got past the cave scene before being disgussted and pulling the movie from the player.

James
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post #558 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 08:49 AM
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I,Robot sounds fine. But it's sound design is flawed. It misses some small sonic details. Go to the last scene. Do you know what 50 robots sound like on metal scaffolding?

Neither did the I,Robot team, because there aren't any sounds there. In the beginning for a few seconds there are, but after that it's mostly just score and machine gun fire.

And anyone that refuses to watch a film in its native language isn't a film fan. For those of us that can concentrate on more than one thing(anyone that drives a vehicle) The Orphanage is a stong Tier 0 title. Any issues with dubs sounds like a personal problem to me.
One more thing, The Orphanage hardly has any dialogue. And most lines are only 4 or 5 words long. WTF??

Ridiculous codec tier sig gone. Still AVC/24bit lossless fanboy.

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post #559 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

I,Robot sounds fine. But it's sound design is flawed. It misses some small sonic details. Go to the last scene. Do you know what 50 robots sound like on metal scaffolding?

Neither did the I,Robot team, because there aren't any sounds there. In the beginning for a few seconds there are, but after that it's mostly just score and machine gun fire.

So are we reviewing sound quality in this tier thread, or are we reviewing sound design? Or is it a combination of both?
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post #560 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

So are we reviewing sound quality in this tier thread, or are we reviewing sound design? Or is it a combination of both?

Both. Since the sound quality is pretty much outstanding on every new release. There needs to be something to tell them apart.

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post #561 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Tomlin View Post

So are we reviewing sound quality in this tier thread, or are we reviewing sound design? Or is it a combination of both?

Excellent point, Rob.

Without first-hand knowledge of the sound of the "master" soundtrack, all we have to go on is what we are provided on BD. If the sounds we are hoping to hear were never on the soundtrack to begin with, is it fair of us to downgrade a title because of this "lack"? Or should we be judging quality based on how well everything that DOES appear on the track is presented?

We could make the simple determination that a track belongs in a certain tier solely on the listening experience, and pay no attention to sound design and/or exact replication of the original track. This could be called the "BD audio experience", which is only concerned with how impressive the final playback comes across.

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post #562 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by RBFC View Post

We could make the simple determination that a track belongs in a certain tier solely on the listening experience, and pay no attention to sound design and/or exact replication of the original track. This could be called the "BD audio experience", which is only concerned with how impressive the final playback comes across.

Lee

You mean which audio tracks make you say "whoa!"? I guess that would make it easier for people that just want something that's impressive even if it isn't 'perfect'. I suppose I agree, otherwise there would be too much trouble.

Which would mean that there would be about 30 reference titles. So should we switch to new rules?

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post #563 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

And anyone that refuses to watch a film in its native language isn't a film fan. For those of us that can concentrate on more than one thing(anyone that drives a vehicle) The Orphanage is a stong Tier 0 title. Any issues with dubs sounds like a personal problem to me.
One more thing, The Orphanage hardly has any dialogue. And most lines are only 4 or 5 words long. WTF??

Well, I enjoy a great movie as any other movie fan would. I spent a small fortune upgrading my HT system to be able to watch and listen to quality movies, If I wanted to read a movie I would had purchased the book. Either way it's annoying seeing and hearing ones lips and then reading the text after the fact it was spoken.
I'm not sure if I made any sense but to me it's likea really bad Jap movie that where you see the guys talk and a delay before there are actual words. So if we wanna talk fine details they could had done better at sinking the words as they are spoken.
Def, not a Tier 0 or 1 in my book due to that simple fact regardless it it's one word or 5.

James
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post #564 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

You mean which audio tracks make you say "whoa!"? I guess that would make it easier for people that just want something that's impressive even if it isn't 'perfect'. I suppose I agree, otherwise there would be too much trouble.

Which would mean that there would be about 30 reference titles. So should we switch to new rules?

We already have variance with vastly different audio systems and hearing ability of individuals who rate titles. (I believe the differences in audio systems and presentation to be much larger than differences in video presentation, for what it's worth). In the proposed manner, we could simply state that title "X" sounds incredible on my system and go into detail regarding the various audio qualities that we feel support our judgement. We could eliminate the other unknown factors of how the master actually sounded, etc., since those are unavailable to us anyway. For any of us to speak about sound design is probably presumptuous, because we just don't have access to the "truth". Obviously, very poor or very good sound design will evince themselves clearly to a vast majority of members. Smaller differences may or may not be the soundtrack.... they may be due to minor setup errors or equipment deficiencies. Therefore, it's really difficult to make fine qualitative judgments while so many confounding variables are in play.

Lee
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post #565 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jphillips63 View Post

So if we wanna talk fine details they could had done better at sinking the words as they are spoken.
Def, not a Tier 0 or 1 in my book due to that simple fact regardless it it's one word or 5.

James

If only they were able to float.
Oh yeah, tt's a personal problem.


Orphanage is Tier 0.

-hey as an experiment, learn a bit of Spanish to make sure that the audio is timed right. I did and it helps a lot.

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post #566 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shadowrage View Post

And anyone that refuses to watch a film in its native language isn't a film fan. For those of us that can concentrate on more than one thing(anyone that drives a vehicle) The Orphanage is a stong Tier 0 title. Any issues with dubs sounds like a personal problem to me.
One more thing, The Orphanage hardly has any dialogue. And most lines are only 4 or 5 words long. WTF??

I do agree that The Orphanage is a strong Tier 0. And I like the lack of dialogue as the movie relies on the actions of the characters to deliver its scares. Like in the "1, 2, 3, touch the wall" scene... But yeah, it's Tier 0 to me because the dialogue does have a very tiny treble issue that keeps it from being Reference.
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post #567 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 11:58 AM
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Does anyone have any thoughts/opinions on TMNT?
I'm recommending a Tier 0 placement,anyone else willing to vote for that?
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post #568 of 2680 Old 04-28-2008, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenike View Post

I do agree that The Orphanage is a strong Tier 0. And I like the lack of dialogue as the movie relies on the actions of the characters to deliver its scares. Like in the "1, 2, 3, touch the wall" scene... But yeah, it's Tier 0 to me because the dialogue does have a very tiny treble issue that keeps it from being Reference.


Ok I gave the benefit of my doubt on reading a movie which I totally do not agree with in order to get the true sense of feel of the audio.

Speaking from that I will say the audio of the effects are very well done. I could feel and hear the slightest echos and sounds and for the high pitches to the deep moans it all was really great. Loved the creeks of the doors and floors. With proper Tuner and speaker setup (mainly calibration) I heard no issues with Treble. The Highs were good along with just enough bass when needed and had plenty of mid to give this movie a really good feel of audio.

I still personally think those that only speak and know English would benefit more from this film if it could had been translated as well in English Audio, but thats my own opinion.

For everything else I would say it could fit into Tier 0 with comparissons to what is in this Tier already.

James
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post #569 of 2680 Old 04-29-2008, 01:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikenike View Post

Sorry for a second post, but Bram Stoker's Dracula has to go down a notch as well. The track sounds way too dated.

No way, it's already lower then it belongs to IMO. I gave it Tier 2. It doesn't sound dated at all, not in the sense like the "Rising Sun" does that's for sure.

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post #570 of 2680 Old 04-29-2008, 06:17 AM
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Here's hoping Twister will be in the upper Tier. Early reviews seem to indicate so but time will tell.
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