Next Generation of HDDVD? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 35 Old 05-31-2008, 03:07 AM - Thread Starter
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According to Toshiba's plan, a next-generation player temporarily named DVD 2.0 is on the horizon, and the official release time will be at the end of 2008.

Main features of DVD 2.0:

SD-HD upconversion------by using new chips and technologies, DVD 2.0 player will be able to upconvert SD content DIRECTLY into 1080P PQ(amazing!!!)
Here is a comparison between original DVD video and upconverted video( using a model DVD 2.0 player)


advanced Interactive content on DVD------no more details...

price------estimated $200

i'm keeping the secret of clouds.......
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post #2 of 35 Old 05-31-2008, 03:16 AM
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uh.no.
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post #3 of 35 Old 05-31-2008, 05:23 AM
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April Fools joke. You're 2 months late. It was discussed and debunked back then.
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post #4 of 35 Old 05-31-2008, 06:35 AM
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Here is an article from Engadget HD:http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/features...30TDY01303.htm
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post #5 of 35 Old 05-31-2008, 08:31 AM
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Actually, their model SD-6100 available now for about $70 does a credible up-convert. It generates 1080p compatible signals over HDMI. Let's not reargue the silk purse - pig's ear issues about doing this.

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post #6 of 35 Old 05-31-2008, 05:47 PM
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If only Toshiba would release the new player with the added advanced upscaling ability plus also allow it to play HDDVD I think they would have a winner!
They're are an awful lot of HDDVD movie discs out there!
I know i would buy it,and I bet the market would be surprised at the sales!
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post #7 of 35 Old 06-01-2008, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schandorsky View Post

Here is an article from Engadget HD:http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/dy/features...30TDY01303.htm

That is not Engadget, but regardless - that article is talking about the Toshiba SUC (Super Upconverting) DVD players due out before the end of the year. Not to be confused witht he "DVD 2.0" April Fool's joke.
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post #8 of 35 Old 06-02-2008, 10:42 AM
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Its just a over zelus Upconverter. You can only do so much with DVD. Blu-ray or HD-DVD will always win on the right display. I think this may work for the average person who has a smaller HDTV that is uncallabrated.
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post #9 of 35 Old 06-02-2008, 01:48 PM
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Apparently there is an RD-X7 standard DVD player/recorder with a 1 terabyte hard drive releasing in Japan this month.

http://www.hqv.com/products.cfm

It features an HQV scalar like in the XA2 and will allow mpeg 4 recording to DVD's.

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post #10 of 35 Old 06-02-2008, 03:03 PM
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I'd get a new HD DVD player if they ever decided to release one...

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post #11 of 35 Old 06-02-2008, 03:06 PM
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Looks like Toshiba made the right decision, the end of the format war did nothing to improve player sales:

http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_080430.html

2008: BD+ hacked... payback time for Warner, Fox and Disney!
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post #12 of 35 Old 06-02-2008, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I'd get a new HD DVD player if they ever decided to release one...

Me too. I don't know what it is but even though I've got two PS3s I am still buying everything I can on HD-DVD. My wife thinks I'm nuts.

She may be right!

I Like Digital!
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post #13 of 35 Old 06-02-2008, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bourke View Post

Looks like Toshiba made the right decision, the end of the format war did nothing to improve player sales:

http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_080430.html

My local Wal-Mart recently set up an entire section of an aisle devoted to several brands of Blu-Ray players along with space for Blu-Ray discs. If Wal-Mart can't move Blu-Ray along ,then no one can.
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post #14 of 35 Old 06-04-2008, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StillwaterTownie View Post

My local Wal-Mart recently set up an entire section of an aisle devoted to several brands of Blu-Ray players along with space for Blu-Ray discs. If Wal-Mart can't move Blu-Ray along ,then no one can.

The issue is that Wal-Mart is not known for moving anything at the kind of price point that Blu-Ray players are at. $199 players from Funai (Magnavox, etc.) at next Christmas might move things along.

Until then, I predict that BD is going to suffer. IMHO, this is due to the scorched earth policy of Toshiba. When they dropped prices to $99 last year, it put that price point in the minds of consumers for HD players. Now, subconciously, many are waiting for these prices again. Hey, BD didn't help by selling their players as low as $279 last Chistmas, either. When they raised the prices back to the $379-399 level, many consumers tuned out.

I am not complaining, though. 144 HD DVDs and counting...

Living the HT Dream...now in 4D.
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post #15 of 35 Old 06-04-2008, 09:33 AM
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Well from having spent some time messing around with various codecs and seeing what can be done using codecs such as VC-1 or Xvid in a size that would work on SD DVDs in the range of 4GB or 8GB (single or dual layer) or on a flash memery stick for that matter, I can certainly see why Toshiba could be contemplating something like this. Also check out 3xDVD. Becomming unclear to me what the real incremental value added is, as perceived by the consumer, of the extra Blu-ray capacity. Although true 1080p with really high bitstream might be a clear winner in an A-B comparison, a good encode and advanced codec in the size of 4-8GB with a good 5.1 audio can look darn good and a more noticable improvement over an upscaled SD DVD than the incremental improvement from going that route to Blu-ray (at least on my 51 inch Hitachi). Just my 2 cents, but I think downloads or taking your memory stick to the supermarket kiosk is going to rule before very long.
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post #16 of 35 Old 06-04-2008, 05:11 PM
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The problem with Blu-Ray is that it's not a completed product like HD DVD was. Most Blu discs basically provide a Hi Def picture with the interactive menus you'll find on any standard DVD's. While I'm currently Red and still waiting to go Blue, the difference in picture quality isn't staggering enough to warrant the price for most shoppers. I don't think most consumers even have their standard DVD players hooked up properly in order to enjoy a 480p image. They're also still wowed by the technology of a TOSLINK connection. I think Toshiba had it right by perfecting the peripherals of HD DVD before releasing it. The pop up menus, excellent generated subtitles, etc....this is what really wowed me initially with HD DVD.
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post #17 of 35 Old 06-04-2008, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brinyhenry View Post

The problem with Blu-Ray is that it's not a completed product like HD DVD was. Most Blu discs basically provide a Hi Def picture with the interactive menus you'll find on any standard DVD's. While I'm currently Red and still waiting to go Blue, the difference in picture quality isn't staggering enough to warrant the price for most shoppers. I don't think most consumers even have their standard DVD players hooked up properly in order to enjoy a 480p image. They're also still wowed by the technology of a TOSLINK connection. I think Toshiba had it right by perfecting the peripherals of HD DVD before releasing it. The pop up menus, excellent generated subtitles, etc....this is what really wowed me initially with HD DVD.

I think the menus are quite similar, now at least. BD has caught up. But even before then, some titles had menus just as good (just not Warner!). 'Rocky Balboa' had good menus from what I remember (it was the first HD disc title I bought). I'll agree with you that the picture difference isn't staggering enough to go "blue" if you're currently "red" (IMO, there really hasn't been any noticeable difference), but what IS enough to get you to go "blue" are all the movies coming out that won't ever be on "red". Why put up with a title in SD if you don't have to?
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post #18 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 08:53 AM
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Just read in the local busisness section of my newpaper, and they have earmarked what we already know.

1) SD DVD software sales dropped off 4% in 2007
2) The industry expects another 2% drop off in 2008
3) Blu-ray sales are not doing well, because consumers are happy with
their SD DVD, upconverted or not on their big screens.
4) Blu-ray players are too expensive, as 1 consumer remarked.
5) As one industry person had noted in the article, consumers are not going to buy a half-baked product, meaning Blu-ray.
- I know Blu-ray profile 2.0 is coming out soon Panny BD-50 and the new Sony's will alll be @ $600. Even the Blu-ray campis alrady upset about the pricing
6) Blu-ray is in direct competion to the now and upcoming downloadable HD content, ie.- VUDU, Apple TV, Netflix.

Personally I have both formats, I have always been a HD DVD supporter, because we had a great "finalized" product that worked well and gave us great HD content, w/o the price gouging.

Even thou Toshiba is coming out with a Super DVD, I think they may be adopting that technology China is going to bring to their market, as many of us have read before. Sure competition is good and I hope Toshiba will get back into the game and eventually take back the market. I think they have to time it right, when they see that Blu-ray is dying in the market and sales are so poor..........Toshiba is here to give the consumer the alternative for half the price and works just as good......the revival of HD DVD and Super DVD.

I am keeping both the A2 and A30, who knows what the future may hold for us. If Toshiba comes back strong and I hope they do, for the small group of loyal HD DVD consumers will be jumping for joy.
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post #19 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-FANATIC View Post

Just read in the local busisness section of my newpaper, and they have earmarked what we already know.

1) SD DVD software sales dropped off 4% in 2007
2) The industry expects another 2% drop off in 2008
3) Blu-ray sales are not doing well, because consumers are happy with
their SD DVD, upconverted or not on their big screens.
4) Blu-ray players are too expensive, as 1 consumer remarked.
5) As one industry person had noted in the article, consumers are not going to buy a half-baked product, meaning Blu-ray.
- I know Blu-ray profile 2.0 is coming out soon Panny BD-50 and the new Sony's will alll be @ $600. Even the Blu-ray campis alrady upset about the pricing
6) Blu-ray is in direct competion to the now and upcoming downloadable HD content, ie.- VUDU, Apple TV, Netflix.

Personally I have both formats, I have always been a HD DVD supporter, because we had a great "finalized" product that worked well and gave us great HD content, w/o the price gouging.

Even thou Toshiba is coming out with a Super DVD, I think they may be adopting that technology China is going to bring to their market, as many of us have read before. Sure competition is good and I hope Toshiba will get back into the game and eventually take back the market. I think they have to time it right, when they see that Blu-ray is dying in the market and sales are so poor..........Toshiba is here to give the consumer the alternative for half the price and works just as good......the revival of HD DVD and Super DVD.

I am keeping both the A2 and A30, who knows what the future may hold for us. If Toshiba comes back strong and I hope they do, for the small group of loyal HD DVD consumers will be jumping for joy.

Amen!
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post #20 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian81 View Post

Why put up with a title in SD if you don't have to?

PCP= Prohibitive Content Pricing.

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post #21 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD-FANATIC View Post

Toshiba is here to give the consumer the alternative for half the price and works just as good......the revival of HD DVD and Super DVD.

I am keeping both the A2 and A30, who knows what the future may hold for us. If Toshiba comes back strong and I hope they do, for the small group of loyal HD DVD consumers will be jumping for joy.

Do you really believe this?

HD DVD is dead and abandoned and Super DVD is simply upconverting with a new marketing strategy.

I am really surprised these views are so pervasive in this forum. I mean isn't it about 1080P24 video and lossless sound? Super DVD has none of that and HD DVD has been aborted by all studios.... forever. BLU RAY is here and now... recall this is an enthusiasts website, why not go Blu?

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post #22 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Do you really believe this?

HD DVD is dead and abandoned and Super DVD is simply upconverting with a new marketing strategy.

I am really surprised these views are so pervasive in this forum. I mean isn't it about 1080P24 video and lossless sound? Super DVD has none of that and HD DVD has been aborted by all studios.... forever. BLU RAY is here and now... recall this is an enthusiasts website, why not go Blu?

I did go Blu, and HD before that, but......I'm not waiting 20 years for some of my favorite rather obscure older titles to make it to BR (if they ever do). I have about 700 SD titles, mostly, 1940s, 50s, and 60s ones. I want them to look their best right NOW. If something comes out on BR, like Patton, I will get it, but I doubt The Tin Star, It Happened At The World's Fair, Hatari, or Lilies of the Field, are right around the corner for release in this format. If the new Toshiba player makes them look markedly better, you can bet I will get one.
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post #23 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 10:28 AM
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Toshiba's 'new' medium won't make SD DVD look any better than your XA2 or similar BD player. DVD is still just 480i and Super DVD can't change that. Super DVD will be nothing but today's upconversion........but the gist of my post was the ridiculous nature of a HD DVD revival.....errr wait, another Elvis sighting is more plausible!!

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post #24 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 10:35 AM
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I thought the idea was the new players will do temporal integration, as opposed to just interpolation on single frames. That is to say, blocks of data equivalent to several frames of film will be read and decoded, compared, and the differences used to 'harvest' real detail beyond the 480 lines of pixels present in any single frame. Much in the same way the human eye/brain works, from what I understand.
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post #25 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Toshiba's 'new' medium won't make SD DVD look any better than your XA2 or similar BD player. DVD is still just 480i and Super DVD can't change that. Super DVD will be nothing but today's upconversion........but the gist of my post was the ridiculous nature of a HD DVD revival.....errr wait, another Elvis sighting is more plausible!!

Pardon me, but this technology sounds different from existing upconversion from what I've read. You might be advised to wait and see, doubting Thomas.
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post #26 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 10:57 AM
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They are so afraid @ what can happen - esp. since BR hasn't taken off like they surmised since the end of HD.
So to even have to come in here & make a comment, shows me that ppl might just bypass BR altogether for the next real hot media. blu what?

ps: the heavy PS3 & BR subsidizing blitz have begun @ WM & BB. Clearance any1? haha

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post #27 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 11:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickering Hound View Post

Apparently there is an RD-X7 standard DVD player/recorder with a 1 terabyte hard drive releasing in Japan this month.

http://www.hqv.com/products.cfm

It features an HQV scalar like in the XA2 and will allow mpeg 4 recording to DVD's.

Wow, that sounds interesting...

PS: wow, it's the same family as HD DVD recorders have been branded in Japan for years: Vardia! IMO it's the same thing, they just took off the HD DVD logo - here I'm hoping it will be able to play back HD DVD, that the shady Sony deal would be sidelined by the fact it's not mentioned anywhere... makes no sense to not include when it even records MP4 HD already.
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post #28 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 11:01 AM
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I understand the theoretical advantage of it, I just think the lowly 480i DVD res is too low for there to be any significant advantage.... You know me, it is is the next coming, I'd buy it. But this technology isn't that.

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post #29 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Toshiba's 'new' medium won't make SD DVD look any better than your XA2 or similar BD player. DVD is still just 480i and Super DVD can't change that. Super DVD will be nothing but today's upconversion........but the gist of my post was the ridiculous nature of a HD DVD revival.....errr wait, another Elvis sighting is more plausible!!

I have a feeling you missed the point about MPEG4 recording...
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post #30 of 35 Old 06-05-2008, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lonely Surfer View Post

Pardon me, but this technology sounds different from existing upconversion from what I've read. You might be advised to wait and see, doubting Thomas.

yeah, i love these guys who think they can foretell the future.
'if' superupconverting works as advertised (and i also will believe it when i see it) it may be a whole new ballgame!
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