Video Business Mag: Doubts Raised About HD-DVD launch - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 20 Old 04-12-2005, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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This is from page 30 of the April 4 issue of VB:

"Doubts have recently been raised about HD-DVD's fourth quarter timetable. The six member companies of the Advanced Access Content System consortium had expected to complete work on the technical specifications and licensing scheme for the format's copy-protection system by the end of March.
Work has been slower than expected, however, and sources who have followed the progress say it could be well into the summer before final specs are ready.
Without final specs, hardware makers cannot start building machines and replicators cannot start stamping out discs. Unless the copy-protection system is ready in the next couple months, manufacturers will be hard-pressed to get product into the market by Christmas."
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post #2 of 20 Old 04-12-2005, 11:32 AM
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Good.

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http://vimeo.com/super8shooter
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post #3 of 20 Old 04-12-2005, 01:10 PM
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It's been noted here that the AACS spec is being formally published 4/14 (this Thursday)...copies have been in circulation for the past few weeks. There are still format-specific issues to hammer out, though, so who knows if it will push the timeline for HD-DVD.

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post #4 of 20 Old 04-12-2005, 02:23 PM
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I still think it will be tight at best
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post #5 of 20 Old 04-12-2005, 03:45 PM
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"....so who knows if it will push the timeline for HD-DVD."

This may be just as well, could get some other issues out in the open to put some concerns to rest one way or the other. Always an up side to everything.

It is "WOW" TV!
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post #6 of 20 Old 04-13-2005, 11:53 AM
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According to the latest "Perfect Vision" magazine (Mar/April), only four manufacturers have OFFICIALLY announced building an HD-DVD player. Among these four, only RCA/Thompson has even mentioned manufacturing a RECORDING deck. The only comment (concerning a recording deck) from the RCA/Thompson representative that was interviewed by PV magazine was that "POSSIBLY" they might offer a recorder at a "future" date.

Those that tout that they are going to dump DVHS for HD-DVD (for recording purposes) this Christmas may find himself or herself waiting years (if ever) for a recording solution.

BTW, Chris if you are reading this... I am NOT Mikey!

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post #7 of 20 Old 04-13-2005, 11:58 AM
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I'm glad to hear this, the earlier launch was HD-DVDs best chance of survival versus Blu-ray.
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post #8 of 20 Old 04-13-2005, 01:01 PM
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When a format's best advantage is that it may come out a few months earlier than it's competition you have to wonder at it's long term chances. Personally I think that the DVD Forum is going to try like heck to release HD-DVD this fall even if the specs are only half finished and the players don't quite work. Kidding aside I think the DVD Forum will end up releasing HD-DVD next spring.
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post #9 of 20 Old 04-13-2005, 02:27 PM
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so true
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post #10 of 20 Old 04-13-2005, 11:28 PM
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With the adequate hardware on-chip, implementing AACS is a software issue. So no reason to hold up player designs.

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post #11 of 20 Old 04-14-2005, 03:49 AM
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So you're saying that as long as the player CPU is fast enough, it is all systems go as far as HW design is concerned?

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post #12 of 20 Old 04-14-2005, 01:11 PM
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Oh Man! It would be so awesome if Blu-Ray came out before HD-DVD. Maybe this is why Sony keeps asking the HD-DVD camp if they want to join forces.

The news about only 4 manufactures of HD-DVD players is also fantastic news. How are consumers supposed to support a technology that only a few manufactures support?

If Blu-Ray came out first, what would be the need for HD-DVD? Titles? Nah, the wow factor would already be gone and the extra storage capacity issue would already overshadow anything HD-DVD could release.

Also, I think the menu structure of authored Blu-Ray discs is something that shouldn't be overlooked. The Java-based menus could prove to be more interactive and "flashy" to look at (not to mention easier to use). Then, if HD-DVD came out using DVD-type menus, it would clearly be a step backward for HD content.

Buying an HD-DVD player and movie would be like going to see Matrix Reloaded or Revolutions on opening day. High Expectations and a Major Let-Down. Yes. That was absolutely a cheap stab at Warner Bros. who, coincidentally, are supporting HD-DVD.

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post #13 of 20 Old 04-14-2005, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by nilsp
So you're saying that as long as the player CPU is fast enough, it is all systems go as far as HW design is concerned?
Unless something comes out from left field that requires HW changes, yes. HW design is already starting. Hard part is the SW navigation, which several companies already have.

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post #14 of 20 Old 04-14-2005, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ckenisell
The news about only 4 manufactures of HD-DVD players is also fantastic news. How are consumers supposed to support a technology that only a few manufactures support?
That's publically annnounced ones. I know of seven HD-DVD designs at the moment.

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Also, I think the menu structure of authored Blu-Ray discs is something that shouldn't be overlooked. The Java-based menus could prove to be more interactive and "flashy" to look at (not to mention easier to use). Then, if HD-DVD came out using DVD-type menus, it would clearly be a step backward for HD content.
Consumers won't be able to tell much difference between the two formats when it comes to navigation. The look and feel of the navigation was specified by the studios and is the same for both formats.

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post #15 of 20 Old 04-14-2005, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by kjack
That's publically annnounced ones. I know of seven HD-DVD designs at the moment.



Consumers won't be able to tell much difference between the two formats when it comes to navigation. The look and feel of the navigation was specified by the studios and is the same for both formats.
Are you sure? (I'm not doubting you, just trying to inquire a little further). I've read a lot of things about continuing audio, 256 colors, etc. when authoring menus for Blu-Ray. I've never heard any news about HD-DVD. Do you have any sources or more technical details?

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post #16 of 20 Old 04-14-2005, 07:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ckenisell
read a lot of things about continuing audio, 256 colors, etc. when authoring menus for Blu-Ray. I've never heard any news about HD-DVD. Do you have any sources or more technical details?
Both formats have very similar capabilties, except for advanced content HD-DVD uses iHD and Blu-ray uses Java. There are proposals to greatly improve subpicture quality and add HE-AAC audio to HD-DVD.

Blu-ray has a better over-all architecture, but does a few things that cause some studios lots of grief (most of the specs were done before the studios joined). For example, apparently the use of Java does not fit into current disc design flow very well and HD-DVD offers more attractive interactive capabilities.

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post #17 of 20 Old 04-14-2005, 08:33 PM
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"Blu-ray has a better over-all architecture, but does a few things that cause some studios lots of grief (most of the specs were done before the studios joined). For example, apparently the use of Java does not fit into current disc design flow very well and HD-DVD offers more attractive interactive capabilities."


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And then we have the opinion of Mr. Michael Fidler, Senior Vice President, Home Products Division of Sony Electronics. This snippit comes from an interview in the latest Perfect Vision.

Robert Harley, PV:
"What are the advantages of Blu-ray over HD DVD?

Fidler:
"We've already touched on the support of the format---not just in the wealth of Industry expertise, but in the kind of marketing support such strong companies provide to launch a new format. Together we can provide a breadth of products and applications, as well as develope the infrastructure required to build all the elements of the value train.

From a technical standpoint, we think that having the highest storage capacity is a critical part of the equation. I don't think anyone can diminish that advantage, regardless of what kind of compression codecs are used. Having a 50 gigabyte disc versus a 30 gigabyte disc--- 60% more capacity---is very important. It adds tremendous value in what the creative community can do with the product, NOT just in what we are used to from DVD, but in an entirely new experience in packaged media that provides ADVANCED INTERACTIVITY and network connectivity. As part of that connectivity, we've developed a very ROBUST and SECURE content-protection system that is certainly superior to what will be offered in the HD DVD format. This is a prerequisite for future opportunities in electronic delivery, which is going to be an important part of the next-generation format. To summarize, BD has broad support across industry platforms of consumer electronics, computers, IT, and games; it has the pure capacity advantage; and it offers ADVANCED interactivity and enhanced security."

I am beginning to enjoy this format war... it's a bit like politics! ;)

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post #18 of 20 Old 04-14-2005, 10:19 PM
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From what I have read Blu-ray will have extensive interactive abilities and Java is always popular in the computer world. As for HD-DVD I have read little since the DVD Forum does not release any info to the general public. Being technically inferior is bad enough but for those interested in the format the DVD Forum doesn't even provide a single white paper on the HD-DVD specs. Also though I have only heard it once someone told me that Microsoft is helping to make the interactive layer. Keith, is their any truth to that rumor?
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post #19 of 20 Old 04-14-2005, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Richard Paul
Being technically inferior is bad enough but for those interested in the format the DVD Forum doesn't even provide a single white paper on the HD-DVD specs.
I was thinking the same thing earlier this evening. They should really do one. I'll suggest it. The Blu-ray white papers were an excellent idea. We gave them to our FAEs this week during FAE training to introduce them to BD's capabilities. Luckily, I'm in BD meetings this week, so was spared the educational task. :)

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Also though I have only heard it once someone told me that Microsoft is helping to make the interactive layer. Keith, is their any truth to that rumor?
Microsoft and Disney developed iHD, which HD-DVD selected for the interactive layer. It's basically uses optmized subsets of CSS, XML and ECMAscript with a few new extensions. The studios voted down using Java.

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post #20 of 20 Old 04-15-2005, 04:36 AM
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As I said already just as well they wait, and with SONY wanting to do a deal to AVOID a format war, reported to be pressure by Hollywood of all things, it's all moot.

It could be two years before you see hardware or product, that's just as well too IMHO. We all know what a format war would / could do and I don't think anyone really wants that. In the mean time there are TiVo's, DVR's, and D-VHS, no where (other than at home, read Japan) can you get a optical recorder, they hide the truth stateside about when and if they would ever be sold here! So for a player (only) at a price point of $1K, I'd say they need to resolve to one format ASAP.

The interface software will work it's self out.

It is "WOW" TV!
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