What is the Name of the New DTS format coming with HD-DVD? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 24 Old 06-19-2005, 08:19 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
spyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,083
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Title says it all, thanks.
spyboy is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 24 Old 06-19-2005, 10:40 AM
AVS Special Member
 
WriteSimple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: KL, Malaysia.
Posts: 3,206
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
After I Googled your query, I found out the answer.


And it is -



fuad

"DonÂt let them tell you who you are is not enough, that itÂs wrong and that you wonÂt find love. DonÂt let them use my life to put your future down, or tell you that happiness canÂt be found."
WriteSimple is offline  
post #3 of 24 Old 06-20-2005, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
spyboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 7,083
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 40
Fuad

Thanks, when I searched, all I could find was DTS++

So we will have Dolby Digital Plus and DTS-HD. Now, if we only knew when it would make sense to think seriously about upgrading. Well, let's see. How long before Blockbuster has HD-DVDs? 3 years minimum perhaps.
spyboy is offline  
post #4 of 24 Old 06-20-2005, 02:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
TimV's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: San Francisco, Ca
Posts: 1,047
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
DTS++ was the original name. DTS issued a press release a few months ago officially changing the name to DTS-HD.

Regarding upgrade timing, I'd say you're at least a year away. No discs currently exist that are encoded with DD+ or DTS-HD. No players currently exist that can read those discs. No receivers currently feature DD+ or DTS-HD decoding.

We're supposed to get discs and players starting at the end of the year (HD-DVD) and in the spring of next year (Blu-Ray). Perhaps we'll see the receivers sometime around the middle of next year.

Even still, I'll probably wait six months to a year after that, just to see how the chips all fall.

Tim Vickroy

"Besides, there's no reason we can't be civil, is there?"
TimV is offline  
post #5 of 24 Old 06-21-2005, 06:30 PM
Member
 
Ranutso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Here's the official page
» http://www.dtsonline.com/consumer/dtshd.php

Andre
Ranutso is offline  
post #6 of 24 Old 06-23-2005, 10:28 AM
Advanced Member
 
flyersfan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Lehigh Valley
Posts: 816
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think it's safe to assume the players will do the decoding so we don't have to buy a new receiver. However, if the HD players don't play SACD or DVD-A discs, we might need a switchbox to get all of those analog outputs into our receivers.
flyersfan is offline  
post #7 of 24 Old 06-23-2005, 11:14 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AnthonyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 17,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I don't think it is safe to assume that
AnthonyP is offline  
post #8 of 24 Old 06-23-2005, 11:27 AM
Senior Member
 
lazyn00b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP
I don't think it is safe to assume that
Yeah, seriously, why would Pioneer, for example, go to the added expense of adding a bunch of analog outputs to their player when they can just make you buy a new DTS-HD receiver as well? I can't remember the last time I saw a DVD player with 5.1 analog outs, so the track record is not so good here.
lazyn00b is offline  
post #9 of 24 Old 06-23-2005, 04:47 PM
AVS Special Member
 
WriteSimple's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: KL, Malaysia.
Posts: 3,206
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyn00b
Yeah, seriously, why would Pioneer, for example, go to the added expense of adding a bunch of analog outputs to their player when they can just make you buy a new DTS-HD receiver as well? I can't remember the last time I saw a DVD player with 5.1 analog outs, so the track record is not so good here.
I think he means that the HD-DVD and BD players must be able to channel the 1536 Mbps DTS bitrate to the coax/optical. Certainly DTS HD is built that way so that you don't have multiple DTS data streams.


fuad

"DonÂt let them tell you who you are is not enough, that itÂs wrong and that you wonÂt find love. DonÂt let them use my life to put your future down, or tell you that happiness canÂt be found."
WriteSimple is offline  
post #10 of 24 Old 06-23-2005, 05:09 PM
Advanced Member
 
4K display's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 881
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnthonyP
I don't think it is safe to assume that
Quote:
– As a mandatory technology in the next generation standards, a DTS decoder will be built into every HD-DVD or Blu-ray Disc player.
Think again...
4K display is offline  
post #11 of 24 Old 06-23-2005, 06:31 PM
Advanced Member
 
azryan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Az
Posts: 575
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
They will be able to decode DTS and DD but that doesn't mean they will do DTS-HD or the best DD+ rez.

I have a feeling they'll can coax and optical outs and have cheap analog out sections like typical DVD players, but only the lossless hi rez audio formats will be sent out over HDMI cable.

But... maybe they'll output over cheap analog outs? I don't think we know yet.

A big flaw in the current high rez formats DVD-A and SACD of course is that mostly they aren't getting sent out digital cables into Recs. or pre/pros that can process it with the kind of quality that's demanded of hi rez audio.
azryan is offline  
post #12 of 24 Old 06-23-2005, 08:41 PM
Senior Member
 
Jon_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
http://news.designtechnica.com/featured_article25.html

If you go to page three of this article it states that Toshiba's first HD-DVD player will have a Dolbly Digital and DTS HD 5.1 decoder built in. Does this not mean a receiver with 6 channel inputs could power at least some form of the new audio streams?
Jon_W is offline  
post #13 of 24 Old 06-24-2005, 11:02 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dirk1843's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Northeast Arkansas
Posts: 1,594
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by lazyn00b
Yeah, seriously, why would Pioneer, for example, go to the added expense of adding a bunch of analog outputs to their player when they can just make you buy a new DTS-HD receiver as well? I can't remember the last time I saw a DVD player with 5.1 analog outs, so the track record is not so good here.
If memory serves, MOST of the first generation of DVD players did the DD decoding and recievers were advertised as DolbyDigital Ready meaning they had the analog 5.1 inputs. This was before SACD went multichannel or perhaps even around in it 2 channel form. You can probably even still find on eBay DD decoders that went between DVD players and recievers.

I think we will see decoding in the players at least in the first units, and maybe longer........I mean we still have no standard digital output for SACD/DVD-A.

I've seen things you wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate.
dirk1843 is offline  
post #14 of 24 Old 06-24-2005, 11:23 AM
Senior Member
 
lazyn00b's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 330
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_W
http://news.designtechnica.com/featured_article25.html

If you go to page three of this article it states that Toshiba's first HD-DVD player will have a Dolbly Digital and DTS HD 5.1 decoder built in. Does this not mean a receiver with 6 channel inputs could power at least some form of the new audio streams?
Yeah, but just because there is a decoder chip, that does not guarantee that you will get outputs for all channels. They could very easily include decoding that is automatically downmixed to a stereo analog output - this seems to be the scheme for most of the DVD players I've seen lately.
lazyn00b is offline  
post #15 of 24 Old 06-24-2005, 11:39 AM
Advanced Member
 
psycho's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 512
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon_W
http://news.designtechnica.com/featured_article25.html

If you go to page three of this article it states that Toshiba's first HD-DVD player will have a Dolbly Digital and DTS HD 5.1 decoder built in. Does this not mean a receiver with 6 channel inputs could power at least some form of the new audio streams?
That's funny because Dolby Digital Plus and normal DTS are mandatory(dts HD optional), so why would they put a dts HD decoder and not a Dolby Digital Plus?
psycho is offline  
post #16 of 24 Old 06-25-2005, 07:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Jon_W's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Yeah, but just because there is a decoder chip, that does not guarantee that you will get outputs for all channels. They could very easily include decoding that is automatically downmixed to a stereo analog output - this seems to be the scheme for most of the DVD players I've seen lately.
Exactly why I made sure to say
Quote:
could power some form of new audio
streams
Quote:
That's funny because Dolby Digital Plus and normal DTS are mandatory(dts HD optional), so why would they put a dts HD decoder and not a Dolby Digital Plus?
I found that odd too. One could chalk it up to press release confusion or to not having the right terminology down.
Jon_W is offline  
post #17 of 24 Old 06-25-2005, 11:59 AM
Member
 
Ranutso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Guys, just remember what Richard Doherty (ex-BDA member) said in the Latest HiDef News thread.

Both DTS-HD and DD+ are backwards compatible. This means you will be able to listen to a DTS-HD track on your actual receiver. And the CE companies cannot push you to buy a new receiver to listen to your BD/HD-DVD movies (unless you want the advantages of these new audio formats).

Neither BD or HD-DVD will require a DTS-HD or DD+ decoder. But since these tracks are backwards compatible, any BD/HD-DVD player will be able to decode DTS-HD as DTS and DD+ as DD. That means, for example, you could have a BluRay disc with a DTS-HD track only (and no other track) and this disc will play on all BD players and receivers.

Andre
Ranutso is offline  
post #18 of 24 Old 06-25-2005, 01:25 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AnthonyP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Montreal, Canada
Posts: 17,632
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
backwards compatible does not mean that. What it means is that if you have a disk with DTS-HD (or DD+) and connect your player to a receiver that only has (DTS and DD) what will happen is it will only read the DTS (DD part and ignore the rest. So yes you have a choice to upgrade or not, but if you don't you don't get the HD or + benefit but just the old DTS and DD
AnthonyP is offline  
post #19 of 24 Old 06-25-2005, 06:59 PM
Member
 
Ranutso's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 199
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
That's exactely what I meant. The player, however, is required to decode only the "old" part of DTS and DD, no matter it is DTS-HD / DD+ or not.

Andre
Ranutso is offline  
post #20 of 24 Old 08-11-2005, 07:14 PM
Advanced Member
 
jlanzy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 853
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Are there any current pre/pros that can 'decode' the expanded bitrate and Mhz of DD+ or DTS-HD?
jlanzy is offline  
post #21 of 24 Old 08-12-2005, 08:30 AM
Advanced Member
 
sknight1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Wadsworth, OH
Posts: 656
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Has anyone actually heard something encoded in DD+ or DTS-HD? If so, how does it compare to DD/DTS -- is it obviously better or is impossible to distinguish the new formats from the old formats?


Thanks!

Beer. So much more than just a breakfast drink!
sknight1 is offline  
post #22 of 24 Old 08-14-2005, 09:22 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 263
The only parts of the specs. that concern me are high resolution Dolby Digital Lossless (the new branding of Meridian Lossless Packing) and DTS-HD Lossless modes, and on Blu-Ray the addition of uncompressed LPCM high res. tracks too... all three can go up to 8 channel discrete by the way, and up to 24/192 resolution. Except for HD-DVD all three audio options are available, with HD-DVD it's sans uncompressed LPCM as it doesn't have the bitrate capacity or the room.

Lossy codecs can go take a flying leap. I'd be absolutely torked if you have HD discs that can do both high bitrate video and audio, and they still skimp on the audio part due to wanting to cram a ton of extras on the discs too.

Also, HD-DVD (at least pre-recorded studio discs) has been delayed until next year with Time-Warner now making noises as if they're rethinking HD-DVD and wanting to talk to the Blu-Ray camp again for negotiations (the head of their video department does not want a format war, it seems). Time-Warner's biggest supplier of discs, Cinram, is telling them to compromise or no discs will be stamped from them. Cinram has both new HD-DVD/DVD and Blu-Ray stamper lines.

Look for all of these audio and video formats (along with SACD/DSD and DVD-Audio/LPCM) to go through encrypted HDMI connections, with the regular lossy tracks and constricted resolution stereo LPCM also going through coaxial and toslink optical as before. Analog component video will more than likely be downrezed due to copy protection measures... draconian copy protection measures.

Receivers and pre-amps may start coming out with these formats included as soon as the manufacturers and chip supplier companies get a lock from both parties as to what version of HDMI switching they need and the codes from DTS, Dolby Digital, and whatever party controls LPCM standards to embed in their chips (along with their own software control). I'd say late next year or early 2007 unless there is breakthrough news during this year's CEDIA and/or the CES '06.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
post #23 of 24 Old 08-14-2005, 01:10 PM
Senior Member
 
colleycol's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Seattle Area
Posts: 417
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
So you're saying that we will have to wait till late next year at the earliest to be able to buy a receiver to connect HDMI for lossless audio? So we will have to have lossy audio when we buy PS3?

_________________________________________________
My Gear:
JVC RS4810, Prismasonic HD6000M anamorphic lens, Screen Excellence 4K 115 inch wide
Lumagen Radiance 2021
Onkyo 818, Emotiva Amp
B&W CT700 Series Speakers, (2) PowerSound Audio XS30s
Custom HTPC running Mediabrowser, 12TB Server for storage
...
colleycol is offline  
post #24 of 24 Old 08-14-2005, 10:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Dan Hitchman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Northern Colorado
Posts: 8,132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 213 Post(s)
Liked: 263
I'm saying that, yes. The studios will not allow high resolution audio and video through any other connection other than HDMI (and there is no bandwidth room anyway), except maybe analog (and you need a receiver or pre-amp that will have a 5.1 to 7.1 analog bypass input just like with lower end SA-CD and DVD-Audio players), but that means the player must have all the new formats in its decoder on board.

Listen up, studios! Just say "NO" to DNR and EE!!
Dan Hitchman is online now  
Closed Thread HD DVD Players

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off