Secret's review of HD-A1 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
Perryt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Naperville, IL
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Don't know if anyone has noticed yet but secrets has a review of the HD-A1 up.

Perry
Perryt is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
williamtassone's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,030
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
thanks! :)

Ironically now that we are at the cusp of a new frontier of High def video, the tried & tested coaxial seems better than HDMI in sending the signal.

Maybe we'd had been better off if we had just stuck to SDI.
williamtassone is offline  
post #3 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:05 AM
Advanced Member
 
rfisher's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Whitehall, PA.
Posts: 572
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Damn, beat me too it.

Randy J. Fisher, CTS-D
rfisher is offline  
post #4 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
DavidHir's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,344
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 135 Post(s)
Liked: 415
I find this comment most interesting from his review:

While I am excited about the future of video in our homes, I can’t recommend the HD-A1 as the way to get high definition recorded movies right now.

I couldn't disagree more.

DavidHir is offline  
post #5 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:13 AM
Moderator
 
CPanther95's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 23,796
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 60 Post(s)
Liked: 73
I chuckled when I read that since the HD-A1 is the only way to get high definition recorded movies "right now". :)
CPanther95 is offline  
post #6 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:15 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bferr1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Somewhere in the back of my mind
Posts: 3,388
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I'm confused. The review started out fairly upbeat and positive, until you get to the section on usability and responsiveness, where it all goes to hell and rehashes well-known complaints about the remote and its slow speed, ending with "I can’t recommend the HD-A1 as the way to get high definition recorded movies right now."

To quote Fred Willard from A Mighty Wind, "Hey, wha' happened?"
bferr1 is offline  
post #7 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:31 AM
Advanced Member
 
muncey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 844
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
For this Benchmark, I tested the performance of the HD-A1 with standard definition DVDs (no HD-DVDs were available for my tests). I will also add some subjective comments on HD-DVD performance.

I configured the player to output 480p via HDMI and component video.
they tested a HD player without a HD disc, and at 480p, nice.

muncey
muncey is offline  
post #8 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
heavyharmonies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Urbana, IL
Posts: 1,827
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
What a fecking useless review. So is Secrets also going to review Blu-Ray players playing SD-DVD via 480p?

Why bother?

Why in blazes would you review an HD device using SD material and output resolution???

Another so-called "review" for the haters to point to, despite it being done completely and utterly WRONG.

While I thought Secrets did somewhat of a disservice to the Pioneer Elite 79avi, this time they've gone completely around the bend... sheesh.

"Secrets Toshiba HD-A1 Review... brought to you by the L.A. Times."

"But I want to do community service; I want to teach the handicapped how to yodel." - Hudson Hawk
heavyharmonies is offline  
post #9 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Ja Phule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Dallas, TX (Formerly Austin)
Posts: 7,046
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
This review tests the HD-A1 as a progressive dvd player, not as an HD-DVD player, as part of the Secrets DVD Benchmark. I guess we should await a full HD-DVD review of the player.

But in my own way, I am King. Hail to the King, baby.

My Networked Media/Music/DVD Server
Ja Phule is offline  
post #10 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:46 AM
 
plazman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir
I find this comment most interesting from his review:

While I am excited about the future of video in our homes, I can’t recommend the HD-A1 as the way to get high definition recorded movies right now.

I couldn't disagree more.
-----------

I just got my HD-XA1 this morning (the store was out of HD 1). Based primarily on the Secrets Review I got the Oppo upconverting DVD Player. I was pretty happy with the results. I have had around 2 hours to play around with the HD-XA1 and I totally disagree with what they are saying. IMHO, even SD DVD upconverted to 1080i (on my NEC XR5 plasma) looks sharper and more defined than the Oppo. The audio on the XA 1 is also better and HD DVD flat out beats anything I have seen on SD DVD.

Here was what I base my SWAG comarisons on:

1. Serenity HD-DVD
2. Mask of Zorro - Superbit (SD DVD)
3. kagemusha (SD DVD mastered in HD).

Anyway, this is the best I have seen so far!

My regard of Secrets and their recommendation seems have taken a hit from this review which does not match my experience in any way so far! - JMHO.
plazman is offline  
post #11 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:51 AM
 
plazman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Perryt
Don't know if anyone has noticed yet but secrets has a review of the HD-A1 up.
----------------

These guys are not recommending it even though they admit to not having tested with HD-DVD. Probably the most useless review I have ever seen. It's like recommending a car while driving it only in reverse!
plazman is offline  
post #12 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Eyleron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Minot, ND
Posts: 1,838
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 34
The review may have been useless to you, who have already discovered and talked about the problems with remote, etc. But not for everyone else who haven't learned these things. The set of all Secrets readers is not the same as the set of readers of this messageboard.

One can recommend not to buy that product, even when it's the only choice, when there will be other choices coming out soon. Being an early adopter, one has to expect to pay more and live with the bugs that come from first production models.
Eyleron is offline  
post #13 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:57 AM
Senior Member
 
pdubyu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 257
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It's good to know how the player performs with SD discs because most of us have LOTS of these. I'd like to believe that I'm not the only person who wants to have only one disc player in their entertainment system for simplicity's sake.

Keep up the good work Kris. Waiting on the full review.
pdubyu is online now  
post #14 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:57 AM
AVS Special Member
 
gonzalc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 1,221
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Kris Deering is a very serious reviewer when it comes to DVD players. The Secret's DVD benchmark was developed mostly for SD DVDs. With the new formats they may have to adapt a new benchmark. I have the HD A1 and agree with his review. He is pointing out that there is something wrong with the color decoder in the player. To me and others think that it is on the hot side. I am still looking forward to reading Kris' full review.

Christian

My DVD and Blu Ray collection

JVC RS65, ST 130, B&W 803 Diamonds mains, B&W HTM2 Diamond center channel,B&W 805 Diamond surrounds, B&W DB1 subwoofer, Anthem D2v, Parasound Halo A51+A21,Oppo BDP 103,PS Audio Power Plant Premier,Darbee Darblet
gonzalc3 is offline  
post #15 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 11:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
RockStrongo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 1,528
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I disagree with some of the review. I understand that these can be display dependant, but I compared both the Oppo (rated 98 on Secrets) and the A1 (rated 74) on my Sammy DLP 61in.

On my display, the A1 blows the Oppo away in dark scenes. I havent seen any macroblocking at all on the A1. The Oppo was bad in some scenes (dark scenes in Narnia are a good comparison).

I do agree that the startup and loads are extremely slow and the player should have a lower rating for that. But, other than that, I think this is a really good upscaling player.

Check out my iPhone apps!! -
Vurgood Apps
My HD Disc Collection
RockStrongo is offline  
post #16 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Posts: 2,860
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
The reviewer says the MSRP of the A1 is 699.99, as clueless as the rest of his review. He needs to use an eyeball comparison. Why doesn't he simply state if one wants to watch DVDs at 480p, why buy this player- Duh! I want to see the comparison between this players HD-DVD and other HD-DVD/BR players, wait, there aren't any others!
Bill is online now  
post #17 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:09 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nataraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: WA
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I think things like startup time and changing resolutions in the middle (see Ultimate's review) bother mostly the reviewers. Not general users. When you are sitting down to watch a movie for couple of hours what is 40 seconds (yes, I'd like that to be 0 seconds but ....) - but for a reviewer since he is probably loading a lot of discs to check its bothersome. But then, they should not lose the objective of the review - its for normal users and not reviewers.
nataraj is offline  
post #18 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
nataraj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: WA
Posts: 8,020
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
The reviewer says the MSRP of the A1 is 699.99, as clueless as the rest of his review. He needs to use an eyeball comparison. Why doesn't he simply state if one wants to watch DVDs at 480p, why buy this player. Duh!
Thats because I guess he saw that at Amazon - which also shows a msrp of $699 :D Obviously he has been sleeping since CES 2006 :p
nataraj is offline  
post #19 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:22 PM
Advanced Member
 
jayrader's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 883
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I agree it's slow and the remote sucks, but I so don't understand... this thing kicks my panny XP30 down the stairs and around the block. I'm sure he's reccomended other players that have gotten a lower score. huh.
jayrader is offline  
post #20 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:31 PM
 
plazman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockStrongo
I disagree with some of the review. I understand that these can be display dependant, but I compared both the Oppo (rated 98 on Secrets) and the A1 (rated 74) on my Sammy DLP 61in.

On my display, the A1 blows the Oppo away in dark scenes. I havent seen any macroblocking at all on the A1. The Oppo was bad in some scenes (dark scenes in Narnia are a good comparison).

I do agree that the startup and loads are extremely slow and the player should have a lower rating for that. But, other than that, I think this is a really good upscaling player.
---------------------

Could not agree more!

I have an NEC XR5 that was connected to an Oppo. I just got my HD XA1 this morning and I have had around 2 hours to play with it. In general I have been less than happy with the XR5 with black level details, so I knew just which movies to try out. The XA1 easily outclasses the Oppo for both video and audio. This is not just a marginal difference that you can 'sort of' make out, but is a clear difference. I am definitely bummed out with Secrets since I held them in high regard. But this review is just flat out wrong and misses the value of the XA1 - better picture quality!
plazman is offline  
post #21 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:35 PM
 
plazman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalc3
Kris Deering is a very serious reviewer when it comes to DVD players. The Secret's DVD benchmark was developed mostly for SD DVDs. With the new formats they may have to adapt a new benchmark. I have the HD A1 and agree with his review. He is pointing out that there is something wrong with the color decoder in the player. To me and others think that it is on the hot side. I am still looking forward to reading Kris' full review.
-------------------------

Why would he say, he does not recommend this for HD Content, when he hasn't been put a HD DVD in there!

he needs to qualify himself when he says this does not pass his SD progressive scan test etc. etc. In my testing so far, the pq is more refined and sharper than with a Oppo....
plazman is offline  
post #22 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gonzalc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 1,221
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
"Why would he say, he does not recommend this for HD Content, when he hasn't been put a HD DVD in there!"

If you read the review, he says that he will do a full a report mentioning some of the HD issues. By now he has surely tested with HD DVDs.
I agree with you that the picture is refined and sharper with HD DVD than with SD DVD.
I have an Onkyo DV SP1000 and did an A-B test with SD DVDs, and the Onkyo beat the Toshiba. The toshiba has a problem with its color decoder.

Christian

My DVD and Blu Ray collection

JVC RS65, ST 130, B&W 803 Diamonds mains, B&W HTM2 Diamond center channel,B&W 805 Diamond surrounds, B&W DB1 subwoofer, Anthem D2v, Parasound Halo A51+A21,Oppo BDP 103,PS Audio Power Plant Premier,Darbee Darblet
gonzalc3 is offline  
post #23 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Neuromancer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Navigating the Black IC
Posts: 10,959
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill
The reviewer says the MSRP of the A1 is 699.99, as clueless as the rest of his review. He needs to use an eyeball comparison. Why doesn't he simply state if one wants to watch DVDs at 480p, why buy this player- Duh! I want to see the comparison between this players HD-DVD and other HD-DVD/BR players, wait, there aren't any others!
His review is all about SD, and he never pretenses anything else. There is no instance where he is making claims about HD-DVD playback quality. You will have to wait for another review (stipulated at the bottom) for further information about how the HD-DVD aspect stacks up (though we do not know how this will be tested, as there are no HD-DVD test discs at the moment).
Neuromancer is online now  
post #24 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
housecor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Kansas City, KS
Posts: 1,411
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I gotta say I expected far more from a Secrets review. Who is ever going to use this player in 480p? Anyone? Kris got his hands on a hard to aquire HD-A1 but couldn't get a single HD-DVD? C'mon, since launch day the players have been hard to acquire, not the discs. I'm not buying it.

It really read like a review from someone with little interest in seeing HD-DVD succeed. It was a lukewarm response to a sub-par configuration with sub-par content. Shocker.

Check the poll I posted about Toshiba's HD-DVD player PQ on SD discs and you'll find around 90% of owners on this forum have found these first gen players bested their current player's PQ on SD discs! Perhaps it's because none of us are running the Toshiba at 480p. :rolleyes:

Cory
housecor is offline  
post #25 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:55 PM
AVS Special Member
 
John Ballentine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Los Angeles, Ca.
Posts: 5,084
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well - I finally got my answer about SD layer changes on the HD-A1. Good (1 sec) - but not great (vs: Denon 2900 @ "0" sec)
John Ballentine is offline  
post #26 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 12:59 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Earz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Grand Rapids Michigan
Posts: 4,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj
I think things like startup time and changing resolutions in the middle (see Ultimate's review) bother mostly the reviewers. Not general users. When you are sitting down to watch a movie for couple of hours what is 40 seconds (yes, I'd like that to be 0 seconds but ....) - but for a reviewer since he is probably loading a lot of discs to check its bothersome. But then, they should not lose the objective of the review - its for normal users and not reviewers.
No... it bothered the h*ll out of me that when I changed my resolution, that not only did the pj re-sync every time,but it also made the pj re-sync when entering the menu, or pushing stop.
And during hd dvd playback, it also made the movie start over every time.

When you combine this with the slowness of the players as well as a lot of the quirks already mentioned, and then add in Warners audio db flub, it got to the point were it was....do I buy more movies...or take this player back, and wait for some of this to be worked out.

With all the overall quirks mine had, I did not feel I was being picky at all...just practical. ;)

I also agree that using my experience with the HD-A1, I feel it was a bit rushed also....but I wouldn't mind having another that had a few less quirks.....so Toshiba....hurry up and de-bug this thing a bit :)
Earz is offline  
post #27 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 01:03 PM
 
plazman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gonzalc3
"Why would he say, he does not recommend this for HD Content, when he hasn't been put a HD DVD in there!"

If you read the review, he says that he will do a full a report mentioning some of the HD issues. By now he has surely tested with HD DVDs.
I agree with you that the picture is refined and sharper with HD DVD than with SD DVD.
I have an Onkyo DV SP1000 and did an A-B test with SD DVDs, and the Onkyo beat the Toshiba. The toshiba has a problem with its color decoder.
--------------

I just did an A-B comparison between the XA 1 and Oppo with my NEC XR5, upconverted to 1080i. It was obvious to me that the XA rendered a more refined and sharper image than the Oppo for all SD DVDs that I tried. The audio was also better!

I am almost certain that I will sell my Oppo. I understand you are comparing a $2,000 dedicated SD player with a $500 HD DVD player.....one would expect that, no?
plazman is offline  
post #28 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 01:04 PM
 
plazman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neuromancer
His review is all about SD, and he never pretenses anything else. There is no instance where he is making claims about HD-DVD playback quality. You will have to wait for another review (stipulated at the bottom) for further information about how the HD-DVD aspect stacks up (though we do not know how this will be tested, as there are no HD-DVD test discs at the moment).
-----------------

Sorry to disagree with you. But his conclusions are about the merits of the player as an HD Player!

He should have waited to complete his test before posting this. FUD????????
plazman is offline  
post #29 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 01:13 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gonzalc3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Posts: 1,221
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 14
" I understand you are comparing a $2,000 dedicated SD player with a $500 HD DVD player.....one would expect that, no? "

Here you made a good point. Relative to what are you comparing the player.
One think to point out is that Kris review stresses a potential problem with the color decoder. It can look sharper or refined but if the colors are not right, then it is not such
a good player.

Christian

My DVD and Blu Ray collection

JVC RS65, ST 130, B&W 803 Diamonds mains, B&W HTM2 Diamond center channel,B&W 805 Diamond surrounds, B&W DB1 subwoofer, Anthem D2v, Parasound Halo A51+A21,Oppo BDP 103,PS Audio Power Plant Premier,Darbee Darblet
gonzalc3 is offline  
post #30 of 544 Old 05-01-2006, 01:14 PM
AVS Special Member
 
b2bonez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Ducking for cover....
Posts: 5,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman
----------------

These guys are not recommending it even though they admit to not having tested with HD-DVD. Probably the most useless review I have ever seen. It's like recommending a car while driving it only in reverse!
The real quesion is if you would buy a car that took almost 2 minutes to start after you turned the key?.. ;)

b2b

"Listen, You Pencil Neck Geeks.." 'Classy' Freddie Blassie ~ 1918-2003
A Toshiba spokesman, said that "from an engineer's point of view, the Blu-ray is a masterpiece.."
b2bonez is offline  
Closed Thread HD DVD Players

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off