Tosh G2 HD-A2 and HD-XA2 information and discussion - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jrusnak View Post

Right. So (aside from the X1), unless they've bought a receiver in the past year or two, most consumers now have the choice of spending either $1000 for the XA2 or $1000 for a new receiver. Way to go, Toshiba!

Everyone with some deductive capabilities realized long ago that the A1 was an unbelievable value at its $500 price point (probably being sold for several hundred dollars less than it cost Toshiba to produce). That's less than most high quality G1 DVD players cost 10 years ago.

The fact that there are A1s available at or under $400 should make anyone who has been waffling about an HD-DVD player pull the trigger immediately.
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post #272 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Everyone with some deductive capabilities realized long ago that the A1 was an unbelievable value at its $500 price point (probably being sold for several hundred dollars less than it cost Toshiba to produce). That's less than most high quality G1 DVD players cost 10 years ago.

The fact that there are A1s available at or under $400 should make anyone who has been waffling about an HD-DVD player pull the trigger immediately.

This is exactly how I feel. Of course you have to hope that you don't get one of the players that skips/freezes a lot. But all things considered, it is a fantastic buy for the best possible PQ.
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post #273 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Fettastic View Post

Weird that the XA2 still supports S-video and particularly composite video.

Personally, I'm glad those outputs are retained. Just don't see any real advantage to discarding the flexibility they cheaply provide.

-- Trevor
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post #274 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Everyone with some deductive capabilities realized long ago that the A1 was an unbelievable value at its $500 price point (probably being sold for several hundred dollars less than it cost Toshiba to produce). That's less than most high quality G1 DVD players cost 10 years ago.

The fact that there are A1s available at or under $400 should make anyone who has been waffling about an HD-DVD player pull the trigger immediately.

Yes, but reportedly with a bad remote, slow start-ups, no PAUSE/MEMORY, and somereported glitches. My hope was that the remote and boot times would be addressed with the G2 units (which they apparently were) but not the elimination of the important features.
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post #275 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:37 AM
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I'm in the market for a new DVD player. If I already have a newer AVR (Pio 84) that accepts HDMI (and 5.1 analog as well), and my TV is not 1080p (Pio 6071), is there any reason to not get the A2 over the A1. Also what would I'd be getting with the XA2 that I would see/hear a difference in over the A2/A1. Lastly, Robert, I don't have a A1/XA1 to compare against with regards to faster start-up/boot times. So, from turning on the On button and then inserting a disc, how long did the new players actually take. Thanks.
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post #276 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:37 AM
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[quote=jrusnak]
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Originally Posted by GoldenBoy View Post

Here's an article from iTWire about the new Toshibas, I don't know if it adds much information, but here it is anyway :

"Both players will also include out-of-the-box support for the Dolby TruHD 5.1 audio format a feature that was also recently added to the first-generation players through a firmware update."QUOTE]

How can the A2 "support" Dolby TruHD without analog outputs?

Two ways:

1) HDMI
2) maxbitrate S/PDIF

-- Trevor
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post #277 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Anyone heard of a reciever like this? I havent even heard of one being launched until the new year.

Also my mistake. i was under the impresion the HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 could not transwer both 1080i/p and 5.1 TrueHD,


This receiver;
http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/14/sony-reveals-new-3200es-5200es-1080p-a-v-receivers/

BD=870

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post #278 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by FroDaddy View Post

I don't want you to mislead someone since most of your post was accurate, but I felt I needed to post this to comment on your opinion on DD+ and DDTHD.



My testing proved otherwise. There was a night and day difference between the DD+ and TrueHD tracks (using Training Day to test). Midrange was drastically improved, highs were better, and bass was tightened. Dialog was the most obvious, but the surrounds are more clear and thus the soundtrack has more direction.

I have The Perfect Storm and Troy in my Netflix que and personally I can't wait to hear the TrueHD soundtracks on those movies!

Personal experiences will always vary. It depends heavily on the system components and also the listener themselves.

-- Trevor
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post #279 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:44 AM
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[quote=TrevorS]
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Originally Posted by jrusnak View Post


Two ways:

1) HDMI
2) maxbitrate S/PDIF

-- Trevor

TrueHD is a lossless format as you know. Maxbitrate S/PDIF isnt going to give you true TrueHD, just a downconverted version...right?
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post #280 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

I have to admit I am very surprised by all of this.

So basically if I want to be able to listen to TrueHD I have to buy an A1 or wair until Dec/Jan to get an XA2?

The A2 is not fully a next gen player if it does not allow you to play TrueHD. For that reason the A2 is a serious leap back. Anyone who buys that unit is ill informed, and setting themself up or an almost garaunteed future upgrade.

I was waiting on te G2 players before I purchase, but now I guess ill get the A1. By the time the XA2 comes who needs Component out? recievers with 1.3 will be only a few months away at that point.

Is it me or is the smartest thing to do if you want to experience the full next gen inculding video and audio is to get the A1 and then wait until 1.3 is available in both DVD players and processsors?

HDMI for full bit rate, S/PDIF for max bitrate legacy (definite step up from standard DVD).

-- Trevor
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post #281 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

I like good audio, but existing DTS and AC3 processing on my receiver are already above the required bar for me. Try as I might, I have not been able to audibly tell the difference between movies in DTS or AC3, or for that matter between LPCM stereo and 384kbps DD stereo for concert DVDs. In fact, when I listen to the eagles hell freezes over, I always picked the DTS over the LPCM.

This TrueHD thing is kind of an alien concept to me meaning I don't find it useful. It was hard enough to setup the wiring behind the wall on my two movie rooms for 5.1 speakers, all the AV switching (except the HDMI and DVI connections ) are done by the receivers. Meaning, I'm not going to put another two speakers in there for this TrueHD thing (or whatever it needs) because the AC3 and DTS are performing more than adequately for me.

Of course, this is just my opinion and you probably have better ears than I do.

We just got different level audio requirements.
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post #282 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:47 AM
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[quote=jrusnak]
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenBoy View Post

Here's an article from iTWire about the new Toshibas, I don't know if it adds much information, but here it is anyway :

"Both players will also include out-of-the-box support for the Dolby TruHD 5.1 audio format a feature that was also recently added to the first-generation players through a firmware update."QUOTE]

How can the A2 "support" Dolby TruHD without analog outputs?

TrueHD is decoded and then sent over HDMI in PCM format.
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post #283 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

Anyone heard of a reciever like this? I havent even heard of one being launched until the new year.

Also my mistake. i was under the impresion the HDMI 1.1 or 1.2 could not transwer both 1080i/p and 5.1 TrueHD,

They don't support native TrueHD meanwhile the player is decoding TrueHD convert that to high bit rate PCM format that could sent over HDMI 1.1 and 1.2.
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post #284 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrusnak View Post

Yes, but reportedly with a bad remote, slow start-ups, no PAUSE/MEMORY, and some reported glitches. My hope was that the remote and boot times would be addressed with the G2 units (which they apparently were) but not the elimination of the important features.

Your best bet would be to wait for the cheap China made HD DVD players and see if they have the right features and price for you. Sigma Designs or Boardcom SoC based. They may still need to use Sanyo's OPU with the blue laser diode sourced by Sanyo (diff manu technique than Nichia/Sony's). The big question is when such players will be available?

Bob
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post #285 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrusnak View Post

Yes, but reportedly with a bad remote, slow start-ups, no PAUSE/MEMORY, and somereported glitches. My hope was that the remote and boot times would be addressed with the G2 units (which they apparently were) but not the elimination of the important features.

In a world where these boxes sell for $1000, you can't expect everything for $500. Just because Toshiba gave the early adopters some bonuses for taking the G1 risks, doesn't mean they've turned into a charity organization. Go for whichever box best fits your needs and be glad you have choices.

-- Trevor
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post #286 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 10:57 AM
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[quote=vancouver]
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post


TrueHD is a lossless format as you know. Maxbitrate S/PDIF isnt going to give you true TrueHD, just a downconverted version...right?

Absolutely right, however there is still a material advantage. The True-HD transcode will deliver the maximum bitrate via S/PDIF, easily leaving the normal SD-DVD audio in the dust.

-- Trevor
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post #287 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by vancouver View Post

I have to admit I am very surprised by all of this.

So basically if I want to be able to listen to TrueHD I have to buy an A1 or wair until Dec/Jan to get an XA2?

The A2 is not fully a next gen player if it does not allow you to play TrueHD. For that reason the A2 is a serious leap back. Anyone who buys that unit is ill informed, and setting themself up or an almost garaunteed future upgrade.

I was waiting on te G2 players before I purchase, but now I guess ill get the A1. By the time the XA2 comes who needs Component out? recievers with 1.3 will be only a few months away at that point.

Is it me or is the smartest thing to do if you want to experience the full next gen inculding video and audio is to get the A1 and then wait until 1.3 is available in both DVD players and processsors?

I think I agree. I just got a new 56" 1086p Sammy for my wife's living room setup with just a center and two side speakers. New Pioneer receiver. Not a lot of room to put in the A1.

Downstairs, I have a 4-year-old Toshiba 65" CRT that is just fine (Yes, of course, the new Sammy looks better now). I have DVI in. I have a full stereo setup with good speakers but an older receiver. Lots of component space.

My question is: It would seem to me to make more sense to go with the first generation (while they're still here!) and hold off on a 2nd or 3rd gen machine for a while? I don't think they'd be as compatible with my "movie room" setup downstairs.

What say you, friends?
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post #288 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 11:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic View Post

.....This is getting to be an expensive hobby.

Right now I have a 65" CRT w/DVI.

That means that I can't upgrade to 2.0 because I get black crush. That also means no TrueHD for me until maybe 2.1 or 2.2.

I use an HDMI/DVI cable from the HD-A1 to my 57" CRT RPTV. No problems with blacks and 2.0 gives me DD TrueHD in 5.1 over multichannel analogs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic View Post

Having a CRT is great except convergence is always itching at the back of your brain. And it's only capable of 1080i.

For these reasons I've been considering upgrading to either a DLP or SXRD, 1080p of course. Although I believe I can probably sell my CRT for around $1500.00, that's still a heck of an investment. And of course, none of these TVs even have HDMI 1.3 yet.

I don't know what make your TV is... I have no convergence problem, the 1080i image is as good as any and will be matched by the new SED displays. See:
http://www.d200digitalcamera.com/sed-hdtv.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic View Post

...
What's the deal with this DTS MA core only crap? How would that be better than regular DTS?...

With upgrade version 2.0 DTS-HD remains core only. But the bitrate is much higher than regular DTS via digital SPDIF... not even close in quality of sound to DTS-HD core. Consider Core as near lossless with a small amount of loss and one would need to be an expert to tell the difference with DTS-HD Master.
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post #289 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 11:55 AM
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Thanks very much for that info.

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post #290 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by kpblade View Post

I'm in the market for a new DVD player. If I already have a newer AVR (Pio 84) that accepts HDMI (and 5.1 analog as well), and my TV is not 1080p (Pio 6071), is there any reason to not get the A2 over the A1. Also what would I'd be getting with the XA2 that I would see/hear a difference in over the A2/A1.

It appears that the XA2 would be the model to shoot for, as the A2 seems to be sub-par...

No Analog Outs, No 1080p, No DTS-HD support, no HDMI 1.3 - though all things you could live without

Though, if you get the cheaper version now, that makes upgrading to a G3 model a bit more palatable later (;

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post #291 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mfabien View Post

With upgrade version 2.0 DTS-HD remains core only. But the bitrate is much higher than regular DTS via digital SPDIF... not even close in quality of sound to DTS-HD core. Consider Core as near lossless with a small amount of loss and one would need to be an expert to tell the difference with DTS-HD Master.

Do you have a source for info that the new firmware enables DTS-HD High Resolution with its 3Mbps max for HD DVD format? DTS-HD Encore just supports 1509kbs and I thought that was the "core"?

Bob
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post #292 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by kpblade View Post

I'm in the market for a new DVD player. If I already have a newer AVR (Pio 84) that accepts HDMI (and 5.1 analog as well), and my TV is not 1080p (Pio 6071), is there any reason to not get the A2 over the A1. Also what would I'd be getting with the XA2 that I would see/hear a difference in over the A2/A1. Lastly, Robert, I don't have a A1/XA1 to compare against with regards to faster start-up/boot times. So, from turning on the On button and then inserting a disc, how long did the new players actually take. Thanks.

We really don't know if the A2 is better than the A1. It will have faster loading times, but thats about all, and the ones at the show are prototypes, so we don't really know how much faster they'll be. Right now, I don't see any advantage of the A2 over the A1, except for maybe size, and a better remote. The XA2 is supposed to be the best Tosh put out, with better proccessors, and at twice the price.
You have to decide what your priorities are.
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post #293 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

No we are authorized on-line approved for JVC and Mits as well, but I have not yet put them on my site. In our store we sell Sony, Pioneer and Samsung, but we are not web approved on for these brands. Our relationship with Toshiba is our closest and highest volume.

I just re-designed my site design and have not completed all of the accessories and HDTVs. So it's a work in progress.

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Ok.. thanks. Was also wondering if you new were these things were going to be made. Are the HD-A2's going to be outsourced to ORION in tawain like toshiba's plasmas are? Was thinking of returning my D1 because I don't like the slow load times but I have to admit the HD-A2 looks like its flimsy. Please try to find out were the HD-A2's will be made because on only have about 15 days left to return my D1.

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post #294 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 12:24 PM
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Quote:


The A2 is not fully a next gen player if it does not allow you to play TrueHD. For that reason the A2 is a serious leap back. Anyone who buys that unit is ill informed, and setting themself up or an almost garaunteed future upgrade.

The A2 decodes and transports TrueHD. In this respect it really is a next gen player in that it assumes that you are a next gen buyer and have HDMI audio capability.

 

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post #295 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clepto View Post

It appears that the XA2 would be the model to shoot for, as the A2 seems to be sub-par...

No Analog Outs, No 1080p, No DTS-HD support, no HDMI 1.3 - though all things you could live without

Though, if you get the cheaper version now, that makes upgrading to a G3 model a bit more palatable later (;


Analog outs, 1080p, and 1.3 is not important to the guy who posted the question.
The A2 would be perfect for him.

Plus, purchasing both the A2 and next year's A3 will still probably be cheaper than purchasing the XA2 alone.
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post #296 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 12:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob Kramer View Post

Analog outs, 1080p, and 1.3 is not important to the guy who posted the question.
The A2 would be perfect for him.

Plus, purchasing both the A2 and next year's A3 will still probably be cheaper than purchasing the XA2 alone.

Or get the A1, which is still the cheapest option and a 'proven' product.
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post #297 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 01:10 PM
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So it seems that:
  • HD DVD discs store 1080p24 content natively
  • My soon-to-be purchaed Sony Pearl can accept 1080p24 and dispaly it in an even multiple of that frame rate (96 fps reported)
  • $500 2nd-Gen Toshiba will only pass 1080i (thus inducing a 3:2 cadence in the interlaced stream)
  • The Pearl reportedly will NOT IVT a 60i signal for judder free playback

The end result is it looks like I get to shell out an xtra $500 for getting the native frame rate on the disc!!!

sigh.

So close, yet so far. 1080p24 should have been standard on both models. With the reports that SoC chips are capable of passing the native framerate, there is no excuse for having to pay MORE money to do LESS processing.

-Steve
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post #298 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 01:14 PM
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Robert....
Maybe I'm the only guy here that uses a two speaker setup near the TV (42" Plasma in a small upstairs room), but does the HD-A2 have a pair of good old fashoned 2 channel stereo analog audio output jacks like the A1?
I need to run them into the TV's 2 channel stereo RCA audio input jacks (using the TV's built in 5W+5W internal amp) to power my bookshelf speakers.
Thanks very much..... Rob

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post #299 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 01:14 PM
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Robert,

Any word on whether the A2 is fanless? Thanks.
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post #300 of 4928 Old 09-15-2006, 01:23 PM
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All this angst about the feature set changes from the A1 to the A2 is pretty silly. Life is full of choices, so now, all of you who have been sitting on the fence get to make a decision.

Simply prioritize your needs. If 5.1 analog outputs is most important (it would be to me) I would run out and buy one of the A1's that are still around. There are some great deals out there. As I have said in the past, I believed the 1st generation players would be the gold standard in these units. The A1 seems to be an even better value now than it was two days ago. The XA2 adds some excellent features. It is up to the individual consumer to make that choice or stay with the XA1 for several hundred dollars less.

For the user that prefers faster load time, and will potentially upgrade to a compatible receiver to be able to take advantage of the superior sound capability, it pays to get the A2. Given the feature differences, it will probably allow Toshiba some flexibility on pricing in the future, if the market dictates a change.

Consumers who get in to the HD-DVD market at a later date will probably not be as informed about the A1\\XA1 as we are, and will be very satisfied with the unit they buy. They will buy what ever is available at that time. These changes are not a problem in the greater part of the market, only to those of us who have been following this since the beginning.

The A2 still figures to be an excellent player. The choice is up to you.

Mike K.
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