Tosh G2 HD-A2 and HD-XA2 information and discussion - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 05:48 AM
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Wow! How quick people are to jump ship or cry wolf.
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post #1982 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipper IV View Post

Wow! How quick people are to jump ship or cry wolf.

Well, I don't think people are jumping ship, but not having any retail players around for Xmas is a bit of a problem. The date better not slip from the 11th. At least at that point, people can wait knowing the player will be available.

Chris
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post #1983 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Vipper IV View Post

Wow! How quick people are to jump ship or cry wolf.

Who is jumping ship? I have an A1, I plan on keeping it.

Just saying, Toshiba MUST have players in stores at Christmas. That is now in doubt which is unforgivable given that they had players this summer.

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post #1984 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 05:55 AM
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Thank you Robert for attempting to relieve the stress of this situation. If you were a local dealer I would buy all my electronics from you, and I will keep my preorder until they ship, whenever that may be. I just hope MS has plenty of add-ons available to keep the software sales margin high through the holidays, as this will be the only factor that affects studio support.
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post #1985 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

OK, now this is getting a tad weird. According to Toshiba Finland, the delay applies to France only. First batch of players is due to arrive in Sweden on the 24th of this month.

What I don't understand is why Toshiba France would claim that the delay was caused by a faulty component. Wouldn't that mean the players shipping now in other countries have that faulty component in them?

That's one hell of a way to shoot oneself in the foot.

To me it seems fairly logical.

If a faulty part caused a glitch in production and the players have to be re-fitted, then the quantities will be lower, so they have to practice a bit of triage and choose the most critical units to supply first, based perhaps on video system.

Personally, I'd be VERY curious as to who the chip-maker was that screwed up, as this has clearly put Toshiba in a very unhappy or uncomfortable position for Christmas sales - just when they were so strong in sales demand...
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post #1986 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichB View Post

Who is jumping ship? I have an A1, I plan on keeping it.

Just saying, Toshiba MUST have players in stores at Christmas. That is now in doubt which is unforgivable given that they had players this summer.

- Rich

I agree that it's not good from a marketing stand point, but, seriously, it's not the end of the world. And, as others have mentioned, I'd rather have a bug-free product a little later than expected, rather than a glitchy machine delivered on time. Firmware updates are great and all, but it'd be nice to know that they're released just to enable enhancements, and not to fix problems that could have been fixed had the company done a little QA testing.
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post #1987 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 06:08 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

Well Toshiba Finland was full of (reindeer) crap. The delay is confirmed by German site areadvd (though they say the first units might arrive just before the end of the year).

Looks like all sides are experiencing component issues. However, how come Tosh realized this after they had produced (supposedly) tens of thousands of units. This is even worse than discovering a component problem early on in the testing and making an announcement.

I guess HD DVD = MSFT after all! If the Xbox add-on can sell 300,000 -400,000K units by the end of the year it'll create the beach-head needed for a real company that knows what they are doing to put out a player. Wasn't Tosh talking about 300,000K units at CEDIA? Looks like Tosh has lost support from retail for sure. If I were running BB, I'd tell my sales guys to plug BD purely from a business perspective. Why be neutral when only one side has hardware? IMHO the biggest blow to HD DVD will be on the B&M retail side. Zero players on display for 2006.

Sorry. But I'm being practical here....and $50 off or a free movie in Jan 2007 ain't gonna cut it for many who placed pre-orders for this unit. Perhaps a free XA-1/A-1 until the A-2 arrives....

It'll be very intersting to see movie sales trend on Amazon (I don't know of any other place that puts out daily reports) after the PS3 comes out....

OTOH I'd say this is good news for Xbox 360. BD v. HD DVD is truly MSFT v. Sony at this point. No doubt about it. The Panny and Pioneer players are just too low volume to matter. If the Sony player arrives end of Nov. it may be a factor. I haven't seen the Sammy players sell well in B&M stores so I'm not sure if that will change.....
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post #1988 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

Looks like all sides are experiencing component issues. However, how come Tosh realized this after they had produced (supposedly) tens of thousands of units. This is even worse than discovering a component problem early on in the testing and making an announcement.

I guess HD DVD = MSFT after all! If the Xbox add-on can sell 300,000 -400,000K units by the end of the year it'll create the beach-head needed for a real company that knows what they are doing to put out a player. Wasn't Tosh talking about 300,000K units at CEDIA? Looks like Tosh has lost support from retail for sure. If I were running BB, I'd tell my sales guys to plug BD purely from a business perspective. Why be neutral when only one side has hardware? IMHO the biggest blow to HD DVD will be on the B&M retail side. Zero players on display for 2006.

Sorry. But I'm being practical here....and $50 off or a free movie in Jan 2007 ain't gonna cut it for many who placed pre-orders for this unit. Perhaps a free XA-1/A-1 until the A-2 arrives....

It'll be very intersting to see movie sales trend on Amazon (I don't know of any other place that puts out daily reports) after the PS3 comes out....

OTOH I'd say this is good news for Xbox 360. BD v. HD DVD is truly MSFT v. Sony at this point. No doubt about it. The Panny and Pioneer players are just too low volume to matter. If the Sony player arrives end of Nov. it may be a factor. I haven't seen the Sammy players sell well in B&M stores so I'm not sure if that will change.....

^^^

I am concerned for the same reasons. I don't think though that we will know the real picture until CES 2007. If we don't see additional studio support and at least one or two major manufacturers getting on board with HD-DVD hardware, then those of us who have backed HD-DVD are screwed.

Toshiba has proven that they simply can't go it alone on the standalone side. This delay is a huge, huge problem for them. In fact, two friends of mine who I convinced to pre-order the A2 from Value Electronics said that in all likelihood they would cancel their orders because of the delays.
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post #1989 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

Sorry. But I'm being practical here....and $50 off or a free movie in Jan 2007 ain't gonna cut it for many who placed pre-orders for this unit. Perhaps a free XA-1/A-1 until the A-2 arrives....

Is that the silver lining? I did not see an email yet. Are you speculating?
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post #1990 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grubert View Post

Well Toshiba Finland was full of (reindeer) crap. The delay is confirmed by German site areadvd (though they say the first units might arrive just before the end of the year).

Damn those reindeers and their overactive bowels. I called Toshiba Finland rep some hours ago and asked him about the delay. He said he'll make a couple of calls and will get back to me. Some hours later he called me and said he got confirmation of the first batch of players arriving in Sweden this month. Well, we'll see what happens, won't we? Fingers crossed.

Please, feel free to call me by my first name, Petri.
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post #1991 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 06:21 AM
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My preorder for an A2 was:
Time of Order: 9/16/2006 1:40:33 PM

Anyone have that beat?
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post #1992 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 06:35 AM
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I have not experienced any HDDVD in my home yet- so I guess I don't know what I am missing- but from everything I have seen and read about here-I have no worries about my pre-order- Robert seems like a real standup guy-which convinced me to order my first piece of HT equipment online (always went to BM store). So I can be patient on this one.
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post #1993 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 06:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mimason View Post

Is that the silver lining? I did not see an email yet. Are you speculating?

Totally speculating
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post #1994 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 06:52 AM
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2000 posts in this thread!
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post #1995 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 06:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by John McCutcheon View Post

2000 posts in this thread!

Interesting. It isn't about whether HD DVD will survive. It was about whether HD DVD could deliver the quick knock out to BD - within the next 6 months!

If Tosh could have delivered 250K top high quality players for $499 and less for this season, and with the Xbox add on looking strong - we would be talking about the end of the format war sometime at the end of Q1. Tosh left a window of opportunity open.....reminds me of George Washington and the French at Fort Necessity. He was surrounded and out of ammo and just when all hope was lost, the French wanted to negotiate! He did, and lived to fight another day.....the rest is history!!!!
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post #1996 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

My preorder for an A2 was:
Time of Order: 9/16/2006 1:40:33 PM

Anyone have that beat?


Time of Order: 9/15/2006 9:40:39 AM
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post #1997 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

Totally speculating

~Jumps up and down on my sofa~ Oooh ooh! Me too

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post #1998 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by plazman View Post

Sorry. But I'm being practical here....and $50 off or a free movie in Jan 2007 ain't gonna cut it for many who placed pre-orders for this unit.

Uh, that works for me.
Ill take an additional $50 credit.
Im definately not jumping to bluray.
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post #1999 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

Looks like all sides are experiencing component issues. However, how come Tosh realized this after they had produced (supposedly) tens of thousands of units. This is even worse than discovering a component problem early on in the testing and making an announcement...

This is exactly what makes me wonder too. If it was a problem with some single chip from a supplier to Toshiba as we are told now, how come the original design worked with the same chip? Besides, if that supplier needs to re-design the chip and/or manufacture a new batch, one month delay is way too short for it. Going to another supplier for a similar chip may also require some design changes if the part in question is not exact generic replacement component. I am not 100% buying this components argument. A PR (public relations) message is not necessarily the exact truth (true for all companies including Sony, Panny, Pio and Tosh). Said that, I have no problem waiting for HD-A2.
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post #2000 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 07:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vipper IV View Post

I agree that it's not good from a marketing stand point, but, seriously, it's not the end of the world. And, as others have mentioned, I'd rather have a bug-free product a little later than expected, rather than a glitchy machine delivered on time. Firmware updates are great and all, but it'd be nice to know that they're released just to enable enhancements, and not to fix problems that could have been fixed had the company done a little QA testing.

Agreed - the key thing here is that Toshiba caught the 3rd party defect before they shipped the players. I can imagine the grief and BR posters now had the players shipped like that.

From the outside, it would appear that the pre-production stuff must have worked fine, but they got given a bad batch of chips by the 3rd party company for the actual production run.

I would imagine that they may seek reparations, but the bigger picture is that it would have hurt the HD DVD format even more if the Xbox HD DVD drive was not shipping (wheew).

As it is, it will represent a pain in the posterior for some of us - but I'm glad they caught it.
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post #2001 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plazman View Post

It'll be very intersting to see movie sales trend on Amazon (I don't know of any other place that puts out daily reports) after the PS3 comes out....

Keep an eye on this site: The DVD Wars

Paul
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post #2002 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 07:38 AM
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Firstly, Thanks to Robert for giving us the full scoop as customers. I appreciate the tuthfulness.

Secondly, another kudos to Robert for offering some "silver lining' to keep us as satisifed customers, whrn it not his issue but Toshiba's! I certainly hope no speculation that may arise here as to what Robert is cooking up leads to expressions of disappointment here if it doesn't "meet up" with their personal expectations. Let's please remember he's one of the good guys here, not only as a supplier to us, but as a great laison to Toshiba.

Lastly, I'll add a silver lining hope of my own: Perhaps the faulty chip is one responsible for decoding and/or video output, and it's replacement makes 24p via a future firmware upgrade a snap!

-Steve
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post #2003 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Chris, the A2, A1 and XA1 would be judder free on a PDP-5070HD.

-Robert

Robert, can you clarify? The poster referred to getting "1080p24 jutter free".

At least for the A1 and A2, no 24-multiple output exists, so that 3:2 cadence judder will still be present.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop on the issues with Toshiba. Informed is good.

-Steve
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post #2004 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 07:40 AM
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I can't see anyone jumping to BR because of a month delay. Things aren't that bad!

Toshiba just needs to make an announcement of a firm release date and offer a good discount for pre orders and all will be well.

They need to use some of that $150,000,000.00 ad budget for the pre-order discounts. Most people would be very happy about that as long as they were confident they would get the player before Christmas.
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post #2005 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 07:46 AM
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I bought my A1 rather late and thought that Robert's deal was over. I got mine from Amazon. I love the machine and HD-DVD!

When I buy a next-gen--it will probably be G3, not G2--player for upstairs, I will buy it from Robert. Everything I see here suggests that he is a class act.

When I buy, my wife can enjoy HD movies on the "smaller" 56" Sammy.
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post #2006 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 08:01 AM
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Just to put things in perspective, the A1 is still out in the market place, so it is exaggerating it a little to say that Toshiba does not have a player available. Given the discounts on the A1 (including lower markups by retailers), it'll have good sales numbers for the holiday shoppers (possibly even better than the A2 even if the A2 was released this week).

Note, for those who are PS3 fans, the delays on that machine is much bigger than Toshiba. And it is only G1. BTW, Samsung had troubles with their BR players as well, and they are only on G1 as well. Wanting to be on the cutting edge of technology has it's price.
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post #2007 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraiginNJ View Post

But it definitely has me thinking twice about why I ordered an A2 given I think BD will be more popular in the end. . . . Oh yeah, now I remember: high def player at half the price, 2nd gen available now, and some movies that I want that won't be available on BD for years, .... well, 2 out of 3 isn't bad.

By then, when (if in my opinion) BD gets more popular, universal players will be the norm, so you can stock up on HDDVD all you want and not worrying about it "lossing" the Video War. IMHO, I wouldn't be surprised if by the time Bluray becomes mature, the higher capacity is needed ... etc, that we will be talking about UV Rays and super HD !!!
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post #2008 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scaesare View Post

Robert, can you clarify? The poster referred to getting "1080p24 jutter free".

At least for the A1 and A2, no 24-multiple output exists, so that 3:2 cadence judder will still be present.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop on the issues with Toshiba. Informed is good.

I'm a bit confused on the same issue. I think what Robert is saying is the Pioneer 5070 can take the 1080i60 and turn it back into 24 frames and then display that at 72hz. He has the 6070 on his site so I'm sure he's given this a test drive.

I preordered last night. Keeping my figures crossed for a Dec 12th ship.

Chris
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post #2009 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 08:16 AM
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This has to be a major blow to Toshiba!
The scenario of not having a product on the retail shelves at Christmas is interesting. Lived through one of those...

In the late 80's I worked for RadioShack when their early PC's were hot sellers. Don't remember the exact model but it may have been the Tandy 1000SX & 1000EX. Due to unexpected sales volume on black Friday, shortages occurred and supply was scarce to non-existent all the way through to February. The big Christmas sales flyers had already been printed and mailed before Thanksgiving with the two now out of stock computers on the front cover (and at a sale price to make matters even worse).
What ensued in the stores was not pretty... people acted as if RadioShack single handedly killed Christmas. We were threatened, bribed, and even a few trucks got broken into in search of the new computers.
Finally some wise guy in Ft Worth (RadioShack HQ) came up with the genius idea of having cards printed that said "Someone has bought you a new computer- as soon as it's available- it will be delivered to you"... the card had a picture of the new computer on it. Ft Worth expected people to pay in full for the computer, and in turn we were to issue them this stupid little card to put under the tree. Well, I don't have to tell you that plan was a disaster! Lots of bad PR for quite a long time after that. People need a box with something in it to put under the tree!
The real shame was, that by next Christmas there were plenty of new Tandy computers in the stores for sale, but the competition (IBM, Apple, and others) had stepped in and filled the demand gaps, computer sales at The Shack were never the same after that Christmas debacle.

Is Toshiba setting themselves up for the competition (Sony, Samsung) to step in? Granted, this latest delay isn't completely Toshiba's fault but you would think the QC on the first run of a brand new high-end product would have caught a major defect before the product left the country.

"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure...."

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post #2010 of 4928 Old 11-14-2006, 08:26 AM
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Ouch this spoiled my weekend a little.

Oh Well it looks like I will be getting the Xbox360 HDDVD for now and maybe sell it when the Toshiba HDA2 comes out.
I want the dvd upconverting and standalone convienence and sleek black case.
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