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post #181 of 4781 Old 09-29-2006, 11:53 PM
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Look, no matter how you put it, it is still the same. Yes, the XBOX360 will be limited on the Audio issues. Not so much on the Video capabilities. $199 and you can watch Hi Def Movies. Right now! King Kong Free! I picked my format.

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post #182 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 12:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MColeman View Post

I agree. The DVD player of the 360 really isn't very good.

You sounds like you haven't checked out the DVD playck after the spring update. It's now right up there with the best upconverting players @ 720p (if you have VGA kit). Even with component, it's a pretty darn good 480p player now.

Quote:


Why on earth would they make an HD unit and NOT offer digital out for video????

It just doesn't make sense.

Because HDMI is no where near the dominant connection for HDTVs yet. That's component. This plus the fact that when they were finalising the specs for the 360 back in 2005, HDMI specs was no where near a reliable stable connection format. Almost a yeat after launch, we are still waiting for HDMI 1.3 to be finished.


Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmonster View Post

Why would anyone want to use a 360 for HD-DVD?

It's VERY noisy, uses more than 140 watts idle and if the HD quality is anything like the SD-DVD it's gonna be terrible.

Reports from the X06 demos is that the HD-DVD playback is very quiet.

Quote:


And besides that, Microsoft is making a fool of all the 360 owners with one vague HDMI comment after the other.

Most 360 owners don't care about HDMI. Only those who also happen to be HT buffs like you guys do.
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post #183 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 12:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmonster View Post

Why would anyone want to use a 360 for HD-DVD?

Until you can get a standalone HD-DVD player for under $200, why WOULDN'T you?
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post #184 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 01:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogmaster View Post

we are still waiting for HDMI 1.3 to be finished.

This brings up an important point. If Microsoft DOES intend to bring out and HDMI adapter to please all of you whining about it, wouldn't it be smart of them to wait until 1.3 is finalized?

Otherwise you'd whine it doesn't support 1.3.
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post #185 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romper View Post

Yes, the XBOX360 will be limited on the Audio issues. Not so much on the Video capabilities.

Considering that:

1) There is no HDMI for 360. See statement by Microsoft employee amirm in the insiders thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Answer is simple: NO. There is no HDMI option. Only output options are VGA/Component.

2) HD-DVD movies can only be output in 1080p on VGA (not component). Again, from the insiders thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

1080p is supported over VGA for DVD, HD DVD and gaming output.[...]
For component, you get gaming up to 1080p, and 1080i for HD DVD.

3) The 360 currently outputs on VGA a signal at the wrong scale:

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneRoses View Post

XBOX 360 VGA Cable currently output RGB signal at so called "TV Scale" instead of "PC Scale" Most displays expect PC Scale from its VGA input, this will result in washed out picture (too bright picture) and loss in dynamic range if you try to compensate black level by turning brightness setting down.[...]This is very serious bug for XBOX 360 as HD-DVD player as it will ruin Hi-Def experiance for most of us who are certainly not an average Joe who can't tell the difference in image quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by StoneRoses View Post

Most (maybe all) displays with VGA input expect PC scale and cannot setup to TV scale without loss in contrast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

I agree and that is why I said there will be more to come on the answer I gave.

It seems to me that the 360 with HD-DVD drive can't be defined as a "1080p" HD-DVD player. That means that to get the full resolution of the discs you have to rely on the TV's internal deinterlacer, which is in almost all cases very poor. Therefore i think that the 360 has serious limitations on the video side, too.
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post #186 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 06:24 AM
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If one buys the xbox 360 vga cable, will one need to buy a simple vga to component cable or much more expensive vga to component transducer to upscale regular DVD's to a HDTV with a component input?

Does someone have the definitive answer?

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post #187 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardballpete View Post

If one buys the xbox 360 vga cable, will one need to buy a simple vga to component cable or much more expensive vga to component transducer to upscale regular DVD's to a HDTV with a component input?

Does someone have the definitive answer?

Transducer.
VGA is RGB signal, component is YPbPr.
Or you can use a component cable (directly out of the 360), but you will only be able to upscale DVDs to 480p.
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post #188 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

You do realize that a digital output would need some firmware changes, right ?

Yes I do, it is still possible, as some rumors have suggested that some third party, let's for the sake of disscussion, say monster cable, is in discussion, as we speak with Microsoft, of course I am probably be wrong, but I heard that rumor somewhere, it was like $99 list. (ouch)
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post #189 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 06:41 AM
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Want to see it handle VC1, well just download any 720p theatrical trailer. I recommand HARD CANDY witch is Beautiful and very detailed. While it's not VC1 per say, it's more WMVHD at 720p this is very much indicative of how it could handle VC1

BTW the Gamma in VGA on the 360 is really screwed up since the spring update, i have to use +5 Gamma boost on my Z4 to compensate, so if they don't correct this , this fall with the next update, be prepared to be Ultra Black Crushed..

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #190 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 12:27 PM
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This was posted in the latest Bungie Weekly Update, I thought you guys would want to know about the 10 second load times and quiet operation.

Quote:


I loves me some HDTV and HD content. Don't get me started on how annoyed I am at having owned an HD set for five years, but that I can only buy content for it now. That's why I'm super-excited about the Microsoft HD DVD drive I just played with.

MS announced that the thing would ship in November at a retail cost of $199 US, and will include the fancy multimedia remote, as well as a bundled copy of Peter Jackson's King Kong. Doesn't matter if you own it already, since you NEED the HD version if you're buying the drive, right?

The HD DVD drive is very, very quiet, and since the 360 drive doesn't run while playing HD DVDs, the whole thing is relatively silent (lord knows the 360 can make a noise when everything is running all at once). It has a small, laptop-style external supply, but that is not final. I assume that means the final one will be smaller, if anything. And I don't know if it will even definitely be external. I assume so, but it's tiny, and the drive connects to your 360 with a simple USB cable. Speaking of which, it also has two USB ports on the back, so that you can re-attach your wireless adapter to the drive and not have to sacrifice the space on the back of the 360.

The thing starts up, from disc insertion to movie playing, in less than 10 seconds. This will be interesting news to owners of existing HD DVD and Blu Ray players, some of which had startup times of up to a minute! Ouch. The fast built-in OS of the 360 seems to be the deciding factor here.

The interface for disc eject and play is very simple and easy to use - a small circle split in two that lets you play or eject a disc from either drive. That of course means you can have a game and a movie in at the same time, and simply pick between the two. That interface may not be final, but right now it's a boon if you're playing one game frequently.

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post #191 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MKIII View Post

This was posted in the latest Bungie Weekly Update, I thought you guys would want to know about the 10 second load times and quiet operation.

Well the sound of the 360 while in Idle, or playing a DVD movie is about the same as the A1

What makes all the noise in the 360 is the Twister called DVD ROM as 12x that spin like MADNESS that account for 90% of the twister sound the 360 makes, play a demo on the HDD and it's wayyyyyyyyy more quieter since the rom isn't doing anything..

89+ Blu-ray Disc ;)
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post #192 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 06:51 PM
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Does anyone know why microsoft keeps saying you can get 1080p from vga and componet cables.Just sounds misleading.

"Microsoft: We can offer 1080p support through both the VGA connection and the Component connection.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/735/735904p1.html
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post #193 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian M View Post

Does anyone know why microsoft keeps saying you can get 1080p from vga and componet cables.Just sounds misleading.

"Microsoft: We can offer 1080p support through both the VGA connection and the Component connection.
http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/735/735904p1.html

They say it because 1080p will work for both connections on GAMING output.

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post #194 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 08:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogmaster View Post

You sounds like you haven't checked out the DVD playck after the spring update. It's now right up there with the best upconverting players @ 720p (if you have VGA kit). Even with component, it's a pretty darn good 480p player now..

i've tried several dvd's in the 360 since the update and i still don't see anywhere near as good a picture as my upscaling Denon 1920.

oleus
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post #195 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 09:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

i've tried several dvd's in the 360 since the update and i still don't see anywhere near as good a picture as my upscaling Denon 1920.

oleus

What kind of display? Most complaints I've seen on Xbox forums with regards to playback quality post-update have been LCD users, the least complaints being CRT (i.e. monitors).
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post #196 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 09:48 PM
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XBox 360 HD-DVD Add-on Product Page

Not much info, but there it is.
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post #197 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BioSehnsucht View Post

What kind of display? Most complaints I've seen on Xbox forums with regards to playback quality post-update have been LCD users, the least complaints being CRT (i.e. monitors).

it's a DLP projector, Infocus 7200. 360 HD games look fantastic, it's just the dvd player that disappoints me.

i use my Denon 1920 for hi-res audio as well as DVD, so i would never rely on the 360 for sd-dvd but i cannot wait to give the HD-DVD drive a spin when it arrives...if this drive doesn't do a g

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post #198 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 10:14 PM
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i'm curious about using VGA for when the hd-dvd drive comes out. but i have a setup problem....

there is already a 25 foot run of vga cable going from my projector up through a dropceiling andback out through the wall where my equipment rack is. Since the xbox 360 needs the VGA/AV cables to hook into the 360, i assume i can't just plug this VGA cable i have into the 360. is the any kid of connector i could use to merge the vga cable i already have into the xbox 360 av/vga cable??

thanks
oleus
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post #199 of 4781 Old 09-30-2006, 11:31 PM
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post #200 of 4781 Old 10-01-2006, 12:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan4911 View Post

This what you're looking for?

excatly what i'm looking for, thanks!!!!

on another note, will i see an improvement with 360 games using VGA as opposed to component? i've been really happy with the 360's component performance in games.
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post #201 of 4781 Old 10-01-2006, 06:43 AM
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does anyone know if their is a vga to dvi cable or adapter that will upscale movies and such on the 360?I have a hitachi 46f500
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post #202 of 4781 Old 10-01-2006, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

excatly what i'm looking for, thanks!!!!

on another note, will i see an improvement with 360 games using VGA as opposed to component? i've been really happy with the 360's component performance in games.

It depends really. While I am a firm believer in "cables are cables, the cheap ones are just as good as the exotic ones" (if properly constructed of course), when it comes to audio, Video seems to be a whole new ball of wax.

VGA IMHO can produce picture quality superior to that of component. But you ask 99 other people the same thing and your liable to get mixed answers as to which is better between the two.

In my experience, although VGA is the superior connection, it degrades rapidly with bad cables. Also, the actual VGA connector itself presents an impedance mismatch to the signals. While not a big deal when you only have one on each end, you don't want too many in the middle (don't ever buy those cheap vga extension cords are your local PC store).

However, done properly VGA can run some seriously long distances with no noticable degredation in PQ, and give better PQ than component IMHO.

Problem is, ALL component cables are 75 ohm coax. I don't think you will find one that isn't. However, not all VGA cables are constructed of 75ohm coax (it should be), and that is what I think sometimes gives VGA a bad rap compared to component.

-Alan
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post #203 of 4781 Old 10-01-2006, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FirebirdTN View Post

It depends really. While I am a firm believer in "cables are cables, the cheap ones are just as good as the exotic ones" (if properly constructed of course), when it comes to audio, Video seems to be a whole new ball of wax.

VGA IMHO can produce picture quality superior to that of component. But you ask 99 other people the same thing and your liable to get mixed answers as to which is better between the two.

In my experience, although VGA is the superior connection, it degrades rapidly with bad cables. Also, the actual VGA connector itself presents an impedance mismatch to the signals. While not a big deal when you only have one on each end, you don't want too many in the middle (don't ever buy those cheap vga extension cords are your local PC store).

However, done properly VGA can run some seriously long distances with no noticable degredation in PQ, and give better PQ than component IMHO.

Problem is, ALL component cables are 75 ohm coax. I don't think you will find one that isn't. However, not all VGA cables are constructed of 75ohm coax (it should be), and that is what I think sometimes gives VGA a bad rap compared to component.

-Alan

I agree. I noticed a BIG improvement when I switched from component to VGA - games and movies. After the spring update, movies bumped up even another notch.
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post #204 of 4781 Old 10-01-2006, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcats View Post

I agree. I noticed a BIG improvement when I switched from component to VGA - games and movies. After the spring update, movies bumped up even another notch.

so the black level problems with VGA were fixed with the last update right?
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post #205 of 4781 Old 10-01-2006, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post

i'm curious about using VGA for when the hd-dvd drive comes out. but i have a setup problem....

there is already a 25 foot run of vga cable going from my projector up through a dropceiling andback out through the wall where my equipment rack is. Since the xbox 360 needs the VGA/AV cables to hook into the 360, i assume i can't just plug this VGA cable i have into the 360. is the any kid of connector i could use to merge the vga cable i already have into the xbox 360 av/vga cable??

thanks
oleus

Quote:
Originally Posted by GMan4911 View Post

This what you're looking for?

Actually, my MS branded VGA kit not only included a stereo RCA to 1/8" minijack adapter for the analog RCA stereo output, but also a VGA gender changer to plug into a monitor's cable directly. So, you should get one WITH the OEM VGA kit.
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post #206 of 4781 Old 10-01-2006, 03:21 PM
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With no hdmi (currently) there is no way dolby digital plus can be used with this add on. Correct?
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post #207 of 4781 Old 10-02-2006, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdmonster View Post

Why would anyone want to use a 360 for HD-DVD?

It's VERY noisy, uses more than 140 watts idle and if the HD quality is anything like the SD-DVD it's gonna be terrible.

And besides that, Microsoft is making a fool of all the 360 owners with one vague HDMI comment after the other.

Very misleading saying it is going to be noisy. When using the HD DVD player, the 360's internal DVD drive will not be active, thus the 360 will be extremely quiet when playing the HD DVD drive and since the HD DVD drive is extremely quiet (as reported by first hand previews) this will not be a noise issue.

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post #208 of 4781 Old 10-02-2006, 06:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamR View Post

Very misleading saying it is going to be noisy. When using the HD DVD player, the 360's internal DVD drive will not be active, thus the 360 will be extremely quiet when playing the HD DVD drive and since the HD DVD drive is extremely quiet (as reported by first hand previews) this will not be a noise issue.


From the Bungie.net site:




I loves me some HDTV and HD content. Don't get me started on how annoyed I am at having owned an HD set for five years, but that I can only buy content for it now. That's why I'm super-excited about the Microsoft HD DVD drive I just played with.

MS announced that the thing would ship in November at a retail cost of $199 US, and will include the fancy multimedia remote, as well as a bundled copy of Peter Jackson's King Kong. Doesn't matter if you own it already, since you NEED the HD version if you're buying the drive, right?

The HD DVD drive is very, very quiet, and since the 360 drive doesn't run while playing HD DVDs, the whole thing is relatively silent (lord knows the 360 can make a noise when everything is running all at once). It has a small, laptop-style external supply, but that is not final. I assume that means the final one will be smaller, if anything. And I don't know if it will even definitely be external. I assume so, but it's tiny, and the drive connects to your 360 with a simple USB cable. Speaking of which, it also has two USB ports on the back, so that you can re-attach your wireless adapter to the drive and not have to sacrifice the space on the back of the 360.

The thing starts up, from disc insertion to movie playing, in less than 10 seconds. This will be interesting news to owners of existing HD DVD and Blu Ray players, some of which had startup times of up to a minute! Ouch. The fast built-in OS of the 360 seems to be the deciding factor here.

The interface for disc eject and play is very simple and easy to use - a small circle split in two that lets you play or eject a disc from either drive. That of course means you can have a game and a movie in at the same time, and simply pick between the two. That interface may not be final, but right now it's a boon if you're playing one game frequently.
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post #209 of 4781 Old 10-02-2006, 07:22 AM
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I didn't know that the HD DVD was going to have it's own power supply as well if this is true. Kinda thought it would have it's power supplied by the USB port of the 360. Another dang plug gotta find room for.
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post #210 of 4781 Old 10-02-2006, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shogmaster View Post

HDMI specs was no where near a reliable stable connection format.

You mean it is reliable now ?!
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