one and only 360 HD-DVD Drive thread & LINKS - Page 5 - AVS Forum
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post #121 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 01:05 PM
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One should not feel bad or surprised if component looks better than VGA. Which one looks better is dependent on your display. So you should try both and see which one works better.

And yes, if VGA is running at 720p, and component was running at higher resolution, the latter will look better if your display supports higher resolution than 720p.

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post #122 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 01:21 PM
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Figured id post there here as well...

I just purchased the HD DVD add on for the 360 as well. I hooked it up to my Ruby and then my Pearl via component at 1080i using a 96" Firehawk. Setup was a breeze and the installation DVD seemed to take less than 30 seconds. I then powered off the 360 and turned it back on.

I like how the remote is backlit, but I do not like how the open button is for the DVD not HD DVD drive. Would be nice if there was a way to change this.

The first move I watched was Slither. Prety decent horror movie and funny too. Load times are fast <15 seconds and similar to DVD player. Much quicker than the HD-A1 which takes about a minute from hitting close to playing the movie.

The picture quality is excellent. I had zero playback problems with my first movie. Very similar to the HD-A1 from a video perspective. For $199 with King Kong this is a no brainer. I also like how I can take the unit with me to a friends, etc so now I can watch HD DVD anywhere.
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post #123 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 01:26 PM
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Ok I just merged many threads about the 360 drive to this one impressions thread. This is the place to discuss how impressed you are with it, how much better it is tha nyou thought, etc, etc....

Thanks

Just enjoy HD in whatever form you can (Sat, Cable, D-VHS, OTA, HD DVD, or BD).
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post #124 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 02:11 PM
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Got mine Friday and I am completely blown away with it and i haven't even seen one of my films all the way through yet. I have just been sampling different titles. I was most impressed with my recent purchase (I have yet to pop in MI-III) I put in Out of Sight that I just bought today. It is one of my favorite films and I have watched it dozens and dozens of times on SD so I definitely know what the SD version looks like and it was honestly your average looking film on DVD (with both bright and dark scenes).

Well when I put in th HD DVD version, I was completely floored at how amazing it looks! Things almost literally pop off the screen! With the first prison scene (when George looks over at the older cons) things looked so vibrant and sharp (almost 3D is the best way I can describe it) that if you didn't know any better you'd swear you were just looking through a window at them. Jennifer Lopez and George Clooney never looked so amazing together. With HD you usually can see every single little flaw that a person has.

Well, with this new 360 setup you don't see any flaws. That's because with this HD film, the only thing you see is how incredibly gorgeous and perfect these two people are. Jennifer Lopez never looked any sexier than she does here. Yes and after finally seeing him in HD I simply have to say that George Clooney is one very attractive looking man (and this is coming from a strait heterosexual male). Throughout the entire film, colors are just so vibrant and the transfer is so crisp and sharp that I highly recommend it to anyone that wants to show off their DVD add on for the first time to someone. This would definitely be a disk to pop in because there are such a wide variety of places and colors to choose from. Plus, the movie story and plot itself are simply excellent and very entertaining.

That doesn't even begin to describe how thrilled I am with the 360 HD. This is one very satisfied customer. Superman The Movie, Superman II - Donner Cut, and especially Superman Returns can't get here fast enough. How can I possibly wait?
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post #125 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 02:42 PM
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Quote:


1080i = 1920 x 1080

What display are you using?

Hi Pakkman,
I'm using a Sony Cienza Front projector HS-51a details here:
http://www.audioholics.com/productr...aVPLHS51Ap1.php

By looking at the specs, is it even possible the RGB input could do better then the 1080i I'm getting via component? Also, it says the projector accepts 1080p signals, but that's obviously not its native resolution. Would sending a 1080p signal to this projector look better or worse then 1080i anyway?

Thanks, jjkozlow
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post #126 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 02:55 PM
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Having never used either a VGA out on the 360, or my RGB in on my Sony Cienza HS51a (8 months old), I'm not sure I'm doing something wrong here

.

The max resolution of this projector is 1280x720 is it not? How would the VGA benefit you?The signal would be downconverted to 720 would it not?
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post #127 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 03:21 PM
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alot of people seem to be really impressed with the PQ on the HD-DVD from the add-on. can any of you compare the PQ to, say, the hi-def downloaded movie trailers from Xbox Live as a reference point?
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post #128 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 04:06 PM
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I've heard differing reports on this, and would appreciate some clarification. I'm going to pick up a Sony DKS50A2000, which does 1080p. Will that accept the HD-DVD output as 1080p via VGA or not?
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post #129 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 04:26 PM
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The max resolution of this projector is 1280x720 is it not? How would the VGA benefit you?The signal would be downconverted to 720 would it not?

Thanks for the help here guys in getting me set up the best way possible.

Here are my Sony projectors stats:
Compatibility: HDTV:
720p, 1080i, 1080p
575i
EDTV/480p: Yes
SDTV/480i: Yes
Component Video: Yes
Video: Yes
Digital Input: HDMI (HDCP)
Personal Computers: Yes
Display: Type:
0.7" PolySi LCD (3)
Native: 1280x720 Pixels
Maximum: 1280x768 Pixels WXGA
Aspect Ratio: 16:9 (HD)

That said, would the 1080i component setting on the 360 be the best way to go "in theory" anyway versus the RGB input? Or should I maybe even try 720p via component as a better fir for this projector? I guess I'm a bit confused by the "Compatibility" stats listed above and the fact it lists 1080p as being on there.

On another note, Would this projector benifit in any way being fed a 1080p signal or am I crippled by my max resolution listed above at 1280x768 and be better off playing it 1080i or 720p?

THANKS!
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post #130 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 04:30 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scherer326 View Post

my panasonic th-42px60u plasma has a native resoluton of x768. What should I set the xbox 360 to so I will get the best possible picture from the hd-dvd player and games from the xbox 360 itself.

720p?
1080i?

1080i.
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post #131 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 05:15 PM
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Tried VGA Today, the color was very washed out, the blacks became a bit more muddy and the detail was a tad softer, tried the cable at both the 720p setting and th 1360x768 setting which is native for my panel. Component at 720p or 1080i blows it away for color, deep blacks, and sharp image. For my set I prefer 1080i.
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post #132 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 05:17 PM
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I agree 100%, was the same on my dell 24 inch monitor and sony xbr2 46 inch.
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post #133 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 05:18 PM
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Nothing wrong with that . I don't know why people feel guilty for using component. That connect is what we use in broadcast world and is an excellent way to transfer video to your monitor. VGA unfortunately, has two specs for video (PC levels and video), which causes the type of problem you see. So if component is working for you, stay with it.

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post #134 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 05:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Nothing wrong with that . I don't know why people feel guilty for using component. That connect is what we use in broadcast world and is an excellent way to transfer video to your monitor. VGA unfortunately, has two specs for video (PC levels and video), which causes the type of problem you see. So if component is working for you, stay with it.

Let me get this straight.

1. VGA is the only way to output 1080p on the 360
2. Component looks better then VGA
3. Component only does 1080i

Sounds to me like the 360 is essentially a 1080i machine. Why can't you guys release a HDMI cable and solve all of this?

Is the 360 capable of having a digitial out (HDMI) or is there a hardware restriction?
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post #135 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarodL View Post

Let me get this straight.

1. VGA is the only way to output 1080p on the 360

Correct.

Quote:


2. Component looks better then VGA

On some TVs yes. On others, VGA may be better. TVs vary in how good their component versus VGA input quality is.

Quote:


3. Component only does 1080i

Correct.

Quote:


Sounds to me like the 360 is essentially a 1080i machine.

This is incorrect . HD DVD disc are 1080p. When we output 1080i, we are still outputting a progressive signal, albeit using 1080i field order. Digital TVs will convert this back to 1080p, assuming that is the resolution of your set.

VGA is useful if your TV does a poor job of interlace to progressive conversion. If so, then VGA can bypass this circuit in 1080p mode.

Quote:


Is the 360 capable of having a digitial out (HDMI) or is there a hardware restriction?

The console itself is digital and the signals before output can go to any format. However, the machine as shipped, sends out the signals in either component or VGA. Both of these signals are high fidelity and the former is used in broadcast world. VGA signals can go well above HD scan rates for example, and has a more robust shielded transmission line than DVI/HDMI do with their twiste pair. VGA/Component also do not have any form of copy protection which means that you avoid the headache of HDCP handshake.

Don't get me wrong, it is nice to have HDMI. But people hear words like HDMI and "1080p" and assume anything else is not good. Such is not the case.

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post #136 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 06:44 PM
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I have the hd-dvd add on running on a Sony 1292 9" CRT. Looks great except a little too dark - When I run from other sources it looks fine. Just seems to be the X360 HD-DVD. I have the VGA Cable. Any ideas? Is there a way to change brightness, etc from the Xbox 360?
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post #137 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 06:48 PM
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OK so I went over to CC and got my HD DVD player, and am watching King Kong. Dont get me wrong, the detail looks good, I'm just not that impressed by it. I wasnt all that happy with my 360 outputting good quality over VGA when I watched SD-DVD movies so I wonder if I'm one of the folks who will have better luck over component vs VGA. I dont have component cables so I'd have to go and buy them. My TV is a Samsung HL-R6168W.

To me the first thing I notice is black levels dont seem to be as good over VGA as I expect them. I did an A/B comparison with a SD-DVD with the 360 and an upconverting DVD player and the results were really bad. Even with HD it seemed like there was some fuzzyness, especially in darker scenes.

I wish MS would produce an HDMI 1.3 cable already. I wouldnt have to wonder.
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post #138 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Correct.


On some TVs yes. On others, VGA may be better. TVs vary in how good their component versus VGA input quality is.


Correct.


This is incorrect . HD DVD disc are 1080p. When we output 1080i, we are still outputting a progressive signal, albeit using 1080i field order. Digital TVs will convert this back to 1080p, assuming that is the resolution of your set.

VGA is useful if your TV does a poor job of interlace to progressive conversion. If so, then VGA can bypass this circuit in 1080p mode.


The console itself is digital and the signals before output can go to any format. However, the machine as shipped, sends out the signals in either component or VGA. Both of these signals are high fidelity and the former is used in broadcast world. VGA signals can go well above HD scan rates for example, and has a more robust shielded transmission line than DVI/HDMI do with their twiste pair. VGA/Component also do not have any form of copy protection which means that you avoid the headache of HDCP handshake.

Don't get me wrong, it is nice to have HDMI. But people hear words like HDMI and "1080p" and assume anything else is not good. Such is not the case.


Amir,

Thanks for the great post as usual. Don't get me wrong, I am a huge fan of the system and am dying to pick one up. However, I don't have an extra component connection on my TV (panny commercial plasma). I do have an extra HDMI board, so here is at least one more potential customer that would buy a system tomorrow if you released an HDMI cable.
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post #139 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarpad View Post

Tried VGA Today, the color was very washed out, the blacks became a bit more muddy and the detail was a tad softer, tried the cable at both the 720p setting and th 1360x768 setting which is native for my panel. Component at 720p or 1080i blows it away for color, deep blacks, and sharp image. For my set I prefer 1080i.

Toshiba, the HD-DVD player manufacturer, recommends using the native resolution of the mastered HD DVD, not the resolution of the TV you're using. Hence, most HD-DVD would look best when outputing 1080i/p over lesser resolution from the player itself.
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post #140 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 08:17 PM
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I have pics of it running on my 42" DLP, for the money invested I could not be happier. The images look amazing I just need more movies now!

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post #141 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 08:23 PM
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"VGA unfortunately, has two specs for video (PC levels and video)"

amirm is there any the 360 can be patched so it can output either specs to better match what the TV expects the signal to be?


I personally use VGA and like it better, it is sharper and after re calibration the colors are vivd and more natural.


"1. VGA is the only way to output 1080p on the 360"


Odd you got this wrong amirm since you helped build it, the 360 will output 1080P on the dashboard and for upscale games to 1080P using component it will also do native 1080P games for any devs that enable this under component.

As a person with a 1080P TV that will do 1080P over component and VGA I'd like to say smart move getting around AACS by doing 1080P for DVD and HD-DVD's through VGA.
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post #142 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 08:32 PM
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swanlee, I didn't make a mistake . I was talking in the context of HD DVD playback. But yes, it is possible to add the flexibility to support both levels but it is much more complicated to implement than it sounds. Fortunately, "it is all software" as we say so there is hope .

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post #143 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 08:36 PM
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Got it today and LOVE it, heres a pic taken from Kong with a DSLR




42" Sammy DLP

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post #144 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 08:36 PM
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I love living in hick towns. I live in Magnolia, Arkansas and there is not one HD drive for sell in this town. Wal-Mart doesn't even sell Hd DVDS yet here and If I want Hd Dvds or that 360 Addon. I must drive at least 55 miles to Best Buy to get one. That's even if they have it too. Just love hick towns. I'm all pumped to get one and check out all these great HD Dvds but can't. Not till I drive or order one.
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post #145 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 08:40 PM
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Its not that much better in big cities, I live in NYC and the gamestop near me had all of 2 HD DVD players. If I didn't preorder it I would not have it right now, also a lot of the stores in my area are very bias towards Blur-ay so my selections are limited with out taking a train into manhatten to buy it from Best Buy.

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post #146 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doormat View Post

OK so I went over to CC and got my HD DVD player, and am watching King Kong. Dont get me wrong, the detail looks good, I'm just not that impressed by it. I wasnt all that happy with my 360 outputting good quality over VGA when I watched SD-DVD movies so I wonder if I'm one of the folks who will have better luck over component vs VGA. I dont have component cables so I'd have to go and buy them. My TV is a Samsung HL-R6168W.

To me the first thing I notice is black levels dont seem to be as good over VGA as I expect them. I did an A/B comparison with a SD-DVD with the 360 and an upconverting DVD player and the results were really bad. Even with HD it seemed like there was some fuzzyness, especially in darker scenes.

I wish MS would produce an HDMI 1.3 cable already. I wouldnt have to wonder.

Oh wow. Weird.

I have the HL-R5668W and it looks perfect. Regular dvd is fuzzy and washed out and the HD-DVD is very detailed with nice warm colors and 3-D depth. I mean there isn't even a slight similiarity between the two. The difference is so great that I can barely watch HBO-HD because their signal isn't as clean as my HD-DVD movies. I am also using the VGA cables as well. Blacks on the HD-DVD aren't overpowering and so dark that it hides stuff the director intended us to see. In fact the DVD loses all detail in dark scenes all the time, but the HD-DVD shows the subtleties of all the dark shades so you can make out people within the shadows.

It's always so odd to me when somebody can have the same tv, same equipment and the complete opposite experience. It makes me wonder if maybe you have something defective because I haven't heard anybody say DVD and HD-DVD's look even sort of comparable.
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post #147 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 08:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

swanlee, I didn't make a mistake . I was talking in the context of HD DVD playback. But yes, it is possible to add the flexibility to support both levels but it is much more complicated to implement than it sounds. Fortunately, "it is all software" as we say so there is hope .

Unfortunately, while component is great for HD-DVD and games, we lose the ability to upscale retail SD-DVDs. I myself have grown accustomed to upscaled DVDs with the Panny S77 and Toshiba, and planned to replace them in my office with the 360 HD-DVD add on. THat means that for me, VGA is the only option...despite the lower contrast and trouble getting the image calibrated.

As I mentioned in another thread, I can forge the Sharp Aquos into DVI analog AV mode and the colors are correct, but only at 1280x720p resolution. The 1360x768p FAR outperforms the 1280x720 resolution at upsacling SD discs. For some reason, the 360 ups the disc to 1280x720, and when the set upscales that to 1366x768 it incurrs some artifacting that isn't present when using 1360x768 over VGA via the VGA PC mode on the Sharp.

Amir, isn't VGA AV specification limited to 1280x720p and 1080i/p same as component? If that's true the inclusing of other resolutions (like 1360x768) means the 360 isn't "really" outputting AV mode only over VGA. Those are PC modes.

I Like Digital!
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post #148 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amirm View Post

The console itself is digital and the signals before output can go to any format. However, the machine as shipped, sends out the signals in either component or VGA. Both of these signals are high fidelity and the former is used in broadcast world. VGA signals can go well above HD scan rates for example, and has a more robust shielded transmission line than DVI/HDMI do with their twiste pair. VGA/Component also do not have any form of copy protection which means that you avoid the headache of HDCP handshake.

Don't get me wrong, it is nice to have HDMI. But people hear words like HDMI and "1080p" and assume anything else is not good. Such is not the case.

Unfortunately, to get 1080p playback on my TV is going to require HDMI. That's why it would be nice to have the question answered instead of deflected with more buzzwording.

Is it possible for me to pick up an HDMI connection for my 360 down the road, or is that not possible due to hardware restrictions and I'd have to buy the new 'HDMI-version' model?
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post #149 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 09:03 PM
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I should say the A/B test I mentioned above I was comparing 2 DVDs (Serenity) of the 360 SD upconversion vs a upconverting dvd player. The HD DVD does look better, but I am comparing it to the HD I'm used to watching over cable. My sis thought it was better looking but she didnt notice it that much.

Maybe I need my set calibrated professionally.

And now I see lip sync problems.... maybe i need to reboot.
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post #150 of 2184 Old 11-11-2006, 09:05 PM
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Microsoft says at the release it was demanding by consumers at the time. I think people are demanding it now and we will see some type of solution.

1080i over component works fine on my 1080p TV when using my HD-DVD player. I still get 1080p with game though over component.
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