DTS output is coming to the Xbox 360 HD DVD - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1448 Old 11-30-2006, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by theroys88 View Post

I just watched Riddick and chose DTS and it was passed to my Pioneer receiver and scrolled DTS across the receiver and had a very different sound then the DD 5.1. You are wrong wrong wrong!!!. This thread is addressing advance audio options being recoded to DTS like the A1 does.

On the Xbox 360 with Chronicles of Riddick, if you choose DTS, you will get DD output. To be 100% sure I just tried it, and indeed, my receiver says DD.


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Originally Posted by flipcody View Post

Here is an interesting read by one of Microsoft's HD DVD team about how the xbox 360 does HD DVDs. 4.7 million lines of code:
http://blogs.msdn.com/xboxteam/archi...gence-day.aspx

That was posted almost a month ago.
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post #92 of 1448 Old 11-30-2006, 08:18 PM
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hd dvd = DD output only

sd dvd = DD and/or DTS output

All you have to do is try it. Why all the discussion?
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post #93 of 1448 Old 11-30-2006, 08:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trgraphics View Post

hd dvd = DD output only

sd dvd = DD and/or DTS output

All you have to do is try it. Why all the discussion?

Cuz people don't believe the truth.
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post #94 of 1448 Old 11-30-2006, 11:45 PM
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This whole mess is rather depressing, seeing I just bought mine. imagine putting out a hd dvd player knowing that dts gets downconverted to dd. Why would they do this. Reading post after post of disgruntled buyers amazes me. Whatever happened to research and development. Lets hope microsoft can make this right and fix this issue via a software upgrade. Nevertheless, why are some still awed by the sound but others hate it. So much discrepancy. Weird. But the picture is awsome.
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post #95 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astonn View Post

This whole mess is rather depressing, seeing I just bought mine. imagine putting out a hd dvd player knowing that dts gets downconverted to dd. Why would they do this. Reading post after post of disgruntled buyers amazes me. Whatever happened to research and development. Lets hope microsoft can make this right and fix this issue via a software upgrade. Nevertheless, why are some still awed by the sound but others hate it. So much discrepancy. Weird. But the picture is awsome.

because everybody has different eyes/ears.
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post #96 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 02:24 AM
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Originally Posted by A96Honda View Post

because everybody has different eyes/ears.

Also Hardware & Setup..

Lets hope the fix for the flatness comes out soon. Then the HD-DVD add on will be hard to beat.

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post #97 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 04:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astonn View Post

This whole mess is rather depressing, seeing I just bought mine. imagine putting out a hd dvd player knowing that dts gets downconverted to dd. Why would they do this.

This has been discussed ad-nauseum, it's because of the way HD DVD players work. HD DVD players (all of them at this point), decode all audio on HD DVDs, the reason is so that the interactivity sounds can be mixed with the main movie track on the fly (this can't be done with compressed streams).

The result is uncompressed audio, the best output the 360 has, is full-bitrate DD, so all audio on the Xbox is converted to full-bitrate DD.

The Toshiba does the same thing if you use the S/PDIF output. And there's nothing wrong with DD, it's just as good as DTS (the superiority of DTS unsupported by any data).

See what an anamorphoscopic lens can do, see movies the way they were meant to be seen
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post #98 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by astonn View Post

Nevertheless, why are some still awed by the sound but others hate it. So much discrepancy. Weird. But the picture is awsome.

I imagine that some people that think the HD DVDs sound good through the 360 because they have less expensive equipment (HTIB) and/or do not have a sub. The most noticeable part of the difference to me is the lack of bass. I think the biggest reason that people have been positive about the sound is because they have not compared it directly with a DVD. I would suspect that even with lesser equipment the difference would be noticeable.
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post #99 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 06:00 AM - Thread Starter
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The whole point of my posting this thread is to tell people that DTS is coming, and it it may give improved sound from transcoded DD+ audio tracks.

Let's not assume (as some seem to have assumed) that MS's implementation of DD+ --> DTS transcoding will be inferior to Toshiba's. We can decide when the update comes.

FWIW, I can confirm that Toshiba's implementation of DD+ --> DTS transcoding is pretty good, which is why amirm mentioned Toshiba in the first place. He claims the DTS output sound quality should be similar to the Toshiba.
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post #100 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 06:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Andrew67 View Post

point?

DTS master rocks DD+.
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post #101 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

The whole point of my posting this thread is to tell people that DTS is coming, and it it may give improved sound from transcoded DD+ audio tracks.

Let's not assume (as some seem to have assumed) that MS's implementation of DD+ --> DTS transcoding will be inferior to Toshiba's. We can decide when the update comes.

FWIW, I can confirm that Toshiba's implementation of DD+ --> DTS transcoding is pretty good, which is why amirm mentioned Toshiba in the first place. He claims the DTS output sound quality should be similar to the Toshiba.

Can we expect this update before Xmass? & yes i also like the DTS that the Tosh throws out
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post #102 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

This has been discussed ad-nauseum, it's because of the way HD DVD players work. HD DVD players (all of them at this point), decode all audio on HD DVDs, the reason is so that the interactivity sounds can be mixed with the main movie track on the fly (this can't be done with compressed streams).

The result is uncompressed audio, the best output the 360 has, is full-bitrate DD, so all audio on the Xbox is converted to full-bitrate DD.

The Toshiba does the same thing if you use the S/PDIF output. And there's nothing wrong with DD, it's just as good as DTS (the superiority of DTS unsupported by any data).

The data in my ears tells me DTS offers fuller, richer sound, with better use of surrounds. Since when is it NOT believed that DTS is better?

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post #103 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 06:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

The data in my ears tells me DTS offers fuller, richer sound, with better use of surrounds. Since when is it NOT believed that DTS is better?

On some SD DVDs I have preferred the DD tracks, because the DTS tracks seemed to be mixed such that there was overemphasis on the surrounds.

While DTS can often be better than DD, it is not inherently better. What we can say for sure is though is that DD an DTS tracks are often different.
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post #104 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 07:04 AM
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On FnF. When Dom starts the Charger the whole room shakes with rummbling bass all around with DTS. With DD+, it sounds like a honda with a fart can.
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post #105 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 07:04 AM
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^^^I agree with above, DTS just has a gigger soundstage and better use of surrounds to my ears. But with some people, if it walks, talks and sounds like a duck will still call it a goose...

Ok, make that 3 above.
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post #106 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Since when is it NOT believed that DTS is better?

Since basically without exception, when a DTS track is reportedly better than a DD track, it's been shown/found that the tracks themselves are different, not that DTS is a better codec.

DTS tracks are usually 3-4dB hotter than DD tracks.
DTS tracks are sometimes/often completely different than DD tracks.

Blind listenning tests have shown that DTS and DD are basically equivalent on sound quality.

It's really a lot like MPEG-2 vs VC1/H.264, DTS and DD can both have about the same potential for sound quality, but DTS takes about 2x the bits to do it.

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Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

While DTS can often be better than DD, it is not inherently better. What we can say for sure is though is that DD an DTS tracks are often different.

Agreed, with one small tweak, DTS tracks can sound better than DD.

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post #107 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stanger89 View Post

Since basically without exception, when a DTS track is reportedly better than a DD track, it's been shown/found that the tracks themselves are different, not that DTS is a better codec.

DTS tracks are usually 3-4dB hotter than DD tracks.
DTS tracks are sometimes/often completely different than DD tracks.

Blind listenning tests have shown that DTS and DD are basically equivalent on sound quality.

It's really a lot like MPEG-2 vs VC1/H.264, DTS and DD can both have about the same potential for sound quality, but DTS takes about 2x the bits to do it.



Agreed, with one small tweak, DTS tracks can sound better than DD.

Brother, all I can tell ya is what sounds the best to me, on my HTS, and it's DTS, in a walk. You can throw all the numbers in the trash can, because if my ears tell me DTS sounds richer and fuller, then that is what I am going to prefer.

I promise you I can tell the difference and for me, DTS wins easily.

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post #108 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Brother, all I can tell ya is what sounds the best to me, on my HTS, and it's DTS, in a walk. You can throw all the numbers in the trash can, because if my ears tell me DTS sounds richer and fuller, then that is what I am going to prefer.

I promise you I can tell the difference and for me, DTS wins easily.

agreed. even on sd dvds, dts just sounds more dynamic, and i like the fact that i don't have to crank my reciever to 80% max volume.
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post #109 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

On the Xbox 360 with Chronicles of Riddick, if you choose DTS, you will get DD output. To be 100% sure I just tried it, and indeed, my receiver says DD.



That was posted almost a month ago.

I've got about 10 HD-DVDs.... I play any of them with DD+ and my brand new Pioneer Elite says Digital as expected. I put in Riddick or Sahara and select DTS my receiver says DTS.

So someone explain to me how the 360 is not passing DTS if my receiver is saying DTS?!?!
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post #110 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 07:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Louder always sounds better on cursory tests. However, that doesn't mean it's actually better once levels are matched.

A sure way make one set of speakers sound "better" than another is just to turn up the volume for that one set.

Similarly, a sure way to make surround speakers sound more "dynamic" is just to turn up the volume for the surrounds.


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Originally Posted by teknishn View Post

I've got about 10 HD-DVDs.... I play any of them with DD+ and my brand new Pioneer Elite says Digital as expected. I put in Riddick or Sahara and select DTS my receiver says DTS.

So someone explain to me how the 360 is not passing DTS if my receiver is saying DTS?!?!

Strange. My receiver says DD with the Riddick HD DVD's DTS track, with my Xbox 360 HD DVD.

When I get home tonite I'll turn off the menu sounds and see what happens. When I did my Riddick DTS test, it was with the menu sounds on.
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post #111 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 07:43 AM
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my Elite reciever says DD also when DTS is picked up sounds just like DTS should.
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post #112 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 07:52 AM
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I think the more important question is when will MS get this upgrade out. I have pretty much stopped watching my HD-DVDs altogether until they do.

The re-encoded DD+ stuff sounds like complete ish IMHO. But the DTS sounds fantastic. And I am seriously talking night and day. So right now I get to watch Riddick or Sahara until MS gets this sweet update out.

How about an update on the status Amirm
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post #113 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 07:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by teknishn View Post

I think the more important question is when will MS get this upgrade out. I have pretty much stopped watching my HD-DVDs altogether until they do.

The re-encoded DD+ stuff sounds like complete ish IMHO. But the DTS sounds fantastic. And I am seriously talking night and day. So right now I get to watch Riddick or Sahara until MS gets this sweet update out.

TrueHD --> DD usually sounds pretty good too. But then again, there is the lag issue with TrueHD some people have on some discs.


Quote:


How about an update on the status Amirm

Yeah it'd be nice to know. Hopefully sometime this month.
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post #114 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

Brother, all I can tell ya is what sounds the best to me, on my HTS, and it's DTS, in a walk. You can throw all the numbers in the trash can, because if my ears tell me DTS sounds richer and fuller, then that is what I am going to prefer.

I promise you I can tell the difference and for me, DTS wins easily.

This has been debated since last century. On DVDs the DTS track is usually a different mix from the DD track so comparing them is Apples to Oranges. You would need to have a DTS and DD track that are both mixed the same way with the same sound levels to do a true comparison. And in blind tests when that is done the results are mixed.

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post #115 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

This has been debated since last century. On DVDs the DTS track is usually a different mix from the DD track so comparing them is Apples to Oranges. You would need to have a DTS and DD track that are both mixed the same way with the same sound levels to do a true comparison. And in blind tests when that is done the results are mixed.

Aaron, again, all I am saying is what I like better is DTS, its what sounds better to me. All the statistics, tests, whatever, are irrelevant when you are sitting in your living room, watching Saving Private Ryan.

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post #116 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 08:24 AM
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thats what we've been saying, DTS mixes are better. Ofcourse if they are mixed the same they will be similer, like same VC1 bluray/hddvd. But DTS mixes are more dynamic and spacious.
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post #117 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 08:38 AM
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Why not wait till the update is here before debating which is better? The true test is in actually playing a movie and comparing the DD and DTS encodes.
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post #118 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efjay View Post

Why not wait till the update is here before debating which is better? The true test is in actually playing a movie and comparing the DD and DTS encodes.

All we've been doing is discussing which sounds better on the stuff we already have. Nobody is speculating or declaring a winner for the 360 sound output.

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post #119 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 08:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jblank74 View Post

All we've been doing is discussing which sounds better on the stuff we already have. Nobody is speculating or declaring a winner for the 360 sound output.

Actually, some have expressed worry that it will be bad for both DD and DTS on HD DVD with the 360, because they wondered if there is some issue with DD+ decoding on the Xbox 360. However, I think we should just should just wait until the DTS update is out and not jump to any conclusions before then.

Our resident MS exec here states the DD+ --> DTS transcoding on the 360 should sound good, implying it will sound better than the DD+ --> DD does right now, and at this point I'll choose to believe him.
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post #120 of 1448 Old 12-01-2006, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by efjay View Post

Why not wait till the update is here before debating which is better? The true test is in actually playing a movie and comparing the DD and DTS encodes.

It certainly won't be worse.
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