Tosh HD-A2 HD DVD - First End User Reports! - Page 13 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #361 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 03:48 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bfdtv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


I wonder if it'll be like the PS3's DTS-HD decoding or if it will be the rumored MA upgrade that the PS3 may wind up getting...

The PS3 doesn't do any DTS-HD decoding at this time. The PS3 only decodes the DTS "core" -- which is exactly what the Toshiba HD-A2 does now.

Both the A2/XA2 and PS3 will get DTS-HD decoding in early 2007.
bfdtv is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #362 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 03:56 PM
Advanced Member
 
kanefsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelZ View Post

The differences you will see with HD sources on a 61" is going to be small compared to the differences you would see on a 110" screen. There is a night and day difference. Some broadcast HD is very, very good but most is not quite as good as it should be due to multiplexing at the local station or if it is one of the satellite vendors. I have a descent plasma but it can't touch my PJ, you can see MB, dithering and a lot more artifacts, unless you sit 3-4 feet from your tv! So there is a difference, just depends on what monitor you have.

You can see just as many differences on a 61" display if you're sitting closer. It's about angle of view, not screen size. There are 30" desktop monitors with twice the resolution of a 1080p front projector driving a 110" screen. There's also no difference in resolution between broadcast HDTV and HD-DVD. The only differences (given the same source material) would come from one of them having more compression artifacts than the other. You can easily see that during fast-moving scenes, but during slow-moving scenes where the bitrate is not an issue, there is very little if any difference in quality.

The big difference comes from watching a bad transfer versus a good one. A bad transfer on HD-DVD looks much worse than a good transfer on broadcast HDTV.

--
Steve
kanefsky is offline  
post #363 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 03:57 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
bfdtv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 13,484
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:


First, as others have said, the build quality is nowhere near the A1.

Internally the build quality of the A2 far exceeds the A1. It's these internals that determine performance and reliability, not the external case.

Quote:


It is faster than the A1, although the A1 really didn't bother me in regards to speed. The major issue I am having is camera panning is not smooth at all. It's noticably jaggey and annoying to watch.

I assume you have the HD-A2 set to 1080i, as everyone should. From what you are describing, it sounds like the video processing in your TV is poor. Or perhaps there is some cinemotion type setting on your display that you must enable/disable?
bfdtv is offline  
post #364 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 04:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
joffer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

the xa2 still requires an hdmi receiver or one with analog inputs for all speakers...it wil not pass dd+, dts hd, or dolby true through the digtal outputs

no HDDVD or BD player will

"Why am I Mr. Pink?"
joffer is offline  
post #365 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 04:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derekjsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mukilteo, WA
Posts: 1,890
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Does the A2 have a auto native resolution option? What about 480i over HDMI?

All I want it to do is just output what is on the disk and let my VP do all of the work.

Yes it does 480i over HDMI
No it does not have a auto resolution option and to make it even harder you now have to go into setup to change the output res, so close

Toshiba if you are listening please add a auto max resolution option for each disk type SD, HD etc...

Derek

CTO / Founder - SpectraCal Inc.
derekjsmith is offline  
post #366 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 04:58 PM
Advanced Member
 
kanefsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by derekjsmith View Post

Yes it does 480i over HDMI
No it does not have a auto resolution option and to make it even harder you now have to go into setup to change the output res, so close

Toshiba if you are listening please add a auto max resolution option for each disk type SD, HD etc...

So if you choose 480i for SD-DVD then you also get 480i for HD-DVD until you go into the menu and change it back?

--
Steve
kanefsky is offline  
post #367 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 05:10 PM
Advanced Member
 
lastxbr960's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Glendale, Wi
Posts: 520
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by nred1 View Post

I am new to HD players but have had a oppo 971 for some time and have been very happy with it.

I wanted to jump into HD for a reasonable cost and the Toshiba was right up my alley. My intention was to replace the Oppo entirely and use the Toshiba for all of my SD DVD's but I am now concerned.

I have the Silicon Optix HQV test disk (evaluates video processing) that I used on the Toshiba, set to output 720p via HDMI into my panasonic 58" 600u plasma and it failed every test while the Oppo via DVI passes with flying colors.

I did not expect this, as everybody has always regarded the Toshiba HD-DVD players as excellent SD players.

Am I missing something?
Do I need a dedicated SD player? or Do I need a stand alone Video processor.

Will setting the output from the toshiba for SD discs to 480i/p help?

any advice will be greatly appreciated.

HD looks amazing, watching Superman returns as we speak!!

Benchmarks are just that ,"benchmarks".
Usually just for a specific function that may be very rarely found or noticed in real world use.
Sometimes the product that benchmarks lower is prefered in real world use(sportscar/family car).
What matters is how it looks to you.
Which upconverts best in your opinion and at what res, try all three 1080i, 720P, 480P?
Enjoy!
lastxbr960 is offline  
post #368 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 05:36 PM
tsb
AVS Special Member
 
tsb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Both the A2/XA2 and PS3 will get DTS-HD decoding in early 2007.

What's your source? How about the A1/XA1?
tsb is offline  
post #369 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 05:46 PM
tsb
AVS Special Member
 
tsb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Anyone try to take out the A2s drive and put it in the A1 yet?
tsb is offline  
post #370 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 06:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rwestley's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 6,581
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 29 Post(s)
Liked: 60
TSB, it can't be done. You need a specia code when you install a drive. I saw this in the service manual.
rwestley is offline  
post #371 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 06:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
ac388's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,248
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Does the A2 come with a Toslink cable ?

Man see things as they were n say why. I dream of things that never were, n say why not ....... A Perfect PROJECTOR
ac388 is offline  
post #372 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 06:45 PM
Advanced Member
 
dtsfanoh's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Cleveland, OH Metro
Posts: 702
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
FWIW, I can't play Nemo either on my A2. It says cant play disc/check disc...
dtsfanoh is offline  
post #373 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 06:48 PM
Member
 
lynx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Delaware
Posts: 191
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ac388 View Post

Does the A2 come with a Toslink cable ?

Nope.
lynx is offline  
post #374 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 07:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
J y E 4Ever's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 817
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Okeedokee, done deal.

XA2 for $899.00 with free 4yr extended warranty plus $14.99 shipping.

I called them and asked if I could pick it up because I lived in the next town over and they said no problem so I saved on the shipping and I receive the product faster, win win if you ask me!

I am so excited especially being Christmas and all! Speaking of which, I want to thank the AVS forum for their early Christmas gift to me which was advising me that VE existed right under my nose (like 15 minutes away) and I had no clue because all I ever did was hit the Bestbuy/Circuit City which are also very close to me.

Excelsior AVS!
J y E 4Ever is offline  
post #375 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 07:13 PM
Senior Member
 
ABHD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Woodinville, Wa
Posts: 332
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by trich View Post

I just read your post so I put Nemo in my A2 and it is playing ok.

I just tried Nemo widescreen version, and the menu loads up just fine, and the movie itself played without any problems as well... I only ran about 10 minutes of it, but had no problems with it in the A2.
ABHD is offline  
post #376 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 07:18 PM
AVS Special Member
 
swifty7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,661
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
we need some more sd-dvd upscailling tests, I really want to know if the A2 is as good as A1 or better than the Oppo.

congrats to the owners.
swifty7 is offline  
post #377 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 07:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
derekjsmith's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Mukilteo, WA
Posts: 1,890
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by kanefsky View Post

So if you choose 480i for SD-DVD then you also get 480i for HD-DVD until you go into the menu and change it back?

--
Steve

Yes, which is a PITA because we don't have res button anymore. I did try my remote from the A1 and see if the res button worked, no go . So for now you have to go into setup menu change the res to/from 480i and 1080i for those that want to have outboard scaling. It is nice to have 480i over HDMI.

Derek

CTO / Founder - SpectraCal Inc.
derekjsmith is offline  
post #378 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 07:35 PM
Senior Member
 
Jugdish69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: N.E. Wisconsin
Posts: 316
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

From what you are describing, it sounds like the video processing in your TV is poor. Or perhaps there is some cinemotion type setting on your display that you must enable/disable?

I don't think it's the panel......I didn't have this issue with the A1 and the Pioneer Elites have about the best on-board processing on the market (plasma wise). I have the panel in "pure" mode.

Who's your daddy?
Jugdish69 is offline  
post #379 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 07:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
kanefsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelZ View Post

The very maximum bitrate for OTA HD is 19.2 mb/s and that is mpeg2. It is rarely above 17mb/s (video) and usually 12-14mb/s for OTA. HD-DVD is at least 2-3 times more efficent than mpeg (VC-1) and is usually between 12-16 mb/s so it is considerably more dense and as far less artifacts than broadcast HD.

So what if you had a format with 1Gbps? Would it be "considerably more dense and far less artifacts" than HD-DVD? The answer is no, because once you achieve transparency it doesn't matter what bitrate you use beyond that. For most slow-moving scenes, 19.2Mbps mpeg2 is plenty and you won't notice the difference between broadcast and HD-DVD. It's only when there is fast motion that you really need the extra bandwidth or more efficient codec.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelZ View Post

Yes there are 30" monitors that are higher resolution than a 1080p PJ (they too only can display 1080p at best) but you would need to sit inchs away in comparsion. A 110" screen has over 3 times more area than your 61" tv and would be 13 times more area than the 30"" monitor used in this discussion and these are screen widths I am talking about.

I sit about 2 feet from my 30" monitor which is the equivalent of sitting about 7.5 feet from a 110" screen. So anyone sitting more than 7.5 feet from their 110" screen is less likely to notice artifacts than I am on my 30" monitor.

The monitor is 1600p so it can display upscaled 1080p content and it can display my digital still images which are 2900p

--
Steve
kanefsky is offline  
post #380 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 07:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Schlotkins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 1,871
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just a FYI - I contacted Robert about the CUE issue and he indicated that the problem can and WILL be fixed in a firmware update.

Chris
Schlotkins is offline  
post #381 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 08:06 PM
Member
 
bigjb419's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just tried to play two superbit titles, black hawk down & the patriot, and neither of them will play..... The A2 gives me an error. I wonder if this is with all "superbit" titles. I have about 12 of them.
bigjb419 is offline  
post #382 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 08:22 PM
tsb
AVS Special Member
 
tsb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

TSB, it can't be done. You need a specia code when you install a drive. I saw this in the service manual.

I've read that as well, but without trying we won't know for sure. Perhaps a generic code will be leaked that will work for all players/drives as well. Having the best chance for mods/hacks/AACS bypassing is a big reason I got the A1 and will never get rid of it even after I replace it.
tsb is offline  
post #383 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 08:26 PM
tsb
AVS Special Member
 
tsb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,917
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Wonder what the hell they changed that's causing all these SD DVD problems.

I'd bet it's easily fixable through firmware though.
tsb is offline  
post #384 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 08:37 PM
Member
 
bigjb419's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 52
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigjb419 View Post

Just tried to play two superbit titles, black hawk down & the patriot, and neither of them will play..... The A2 gives me an error. I wonder if this is with all "superbit" titles. I have about 12 of them.

Wierd...... After powering down I tried these titles again and now they work.....
bigjb419 is offline  
post #385 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 08:39 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
noah katz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Mountain View, CA USA
Posts: 20,287
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 125
Originally Posted by MichaelZ
The A2 is like the A1 concerning BTB/WTW when connected via HDMI>DVI, there is no BTB or WTW.

Is this just a problem with DVI displays, i.e. a newer HDMI display will show BTB/WTW?

Thanks

Noah
noah katz is online now  
post #386 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 08:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
djos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Posts: 1,229
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Originally Posted by MichaelZ
The A2 is like the A1 concerning BTB/WTW when connected via HDMI>DVI, there is no BTB or WTW.

Is this just a problem with DVI displays, i.e. a newer HDMI display will show BTB/WTW?

Thanks

Yes, it is on DVI displays only, on HDMI displays everything works perfectly.

My Home Theatre site + Blog

The impossible often has a kind of integrity which the merely improbable lacks.
djos is offline  
post #387 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 08:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jwv651's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 5,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Won't play Finding Nemo...watched 2 other sd disc and there was a huge layer change...I never seen this with my A1.

Joe V.
jwv651 is offline  
post #388 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 08:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
kanefsky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 683
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by djos View Post

Yes, it is on DVI displays only, on HDMI displays everything works perfectly.

Technically I think it's an issue when the video is sent using 4:4:4 RGB instead of 4:2:2 YCbCr component. That usually happens when you use DVI instead of HDMI, but there are cases (like the Lumagen scalers) where you can send component over DVI and other cases where an HDMI display will negotiate RGB with the player. So it's possible to get BTB with DVI or not to get BTB with HDMI in some cases.

But the important thing to remember is that BTB is just a test signal for calibration, and has nothing to do with "black crush" or any difference in video quality.

--
Steve
kanefsky is offline  
post #389 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 09:04 PM
 
DTV TiVo Dealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scarsdale, NY
Posts: 4,878
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

Won't play Finding Nemo...watched 2 other sd disc and there was a huge layer change...I never seen this with my A1.

Try a cold re-boot by unplugging the A/C power cord and restart the player and try Finding Nemo. Also let us know what the exact error message is and I'll speak with my technical contact at TACP.

-Robert
DTV TiVo Dealer is offline  
post #390 of 5306 Old 12-09-2006, 09:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jwv651's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Castle Rock, CO
Posts: 5,527
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Try a cold re-boot by unplugging the A/C power cord and restart the player and try Finding Nemo. Also let us know what the exact error message is and I'll speak with my technical contact at TACP.

-Robert

I beleive it was error message 6..Thanks Robert.

Joe V.
jwv651 is offline  
Reply HD DVD Players

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off