Tosh HD-A2 HD DVD - First End User Reports! - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

I picked one up tonight. I have already sold my old RCA special so I won't be able to do any direct comparisons.

Nice!

Can you check for us and report if both component 1080i and HDMI are active at the same time? Much thanks!

Sam
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post #62 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:36 PM
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Here are some pics
LL
LL
LL
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post #63 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:37 PM
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Got the player today.

Startup time, 35-45 seconds. Disc loading to play, 5-15 seconds depending on the disc. WAY faster than the A1 with loading.

The player does not clip head and toe room, no pixel cropping. It can resolve the full resolution of HD with both chroma and luma signals. No Y/C delay.

The player has CUE problems with 1080i out but doesn't with 720P. No CUE at all with SD DVD.

720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P. So anyone with a video processor capable of inverse telecine 1080i de-interlacing should take advantage of it even if you are outputting 720P.

Remote is improved from A1, it is more like a regular DVD remote, but its buttons are small and there is no way you can see what they are in the dark.

Just my observations so far.

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post #64 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:38 PM
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Very nice!!!
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post #65 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lynx View Post

Here are some pics

Been too distracted by glorious HD movie viewing to bother watering the plants lynx?


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post #66 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:40 PM
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Mirroring a few others, I'd really love to hear how this one upconverts standard DVDs versus the Gen 1.
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post #67 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:40 PM
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I posted my impressions in the first user reports thread.

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post #68 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:40 PM
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some of that was over my head, can you explain not clipping head and toe room?

does that have anything to do with btb and wtw?

i'm very curious if they fixed the colorspace issue with dvi in the chain. i realize not everybody has the problem, but many do. i have black crush along with the player not passing blacker than black with my inxx projectors.

"the one who has the most fun wins."
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post #69 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:46 PM
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Sorry for being dumb but I don't know what CUE is.
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post #70 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:51 PM
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Where are the photos !?
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post #71 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suthrn View Post

Sorry for being dumb but I don't know what CUE is.

Chroma Upsampling Error, something I woulnd't think a modern device would have.
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post #72 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Got the player today.

Startup time, 35-45 seconds. Disc loading to play, 5-15 seconds depending on the disc. WAY faster than the A1 with loading.

The player does not clip head and toe room, no pixel cropping. It can resolve the full resolution of HD with both chroma and luma signals. No Y/C delay.

The player has CUE problems with 1080i out but doesn't with 720P. No CUE at all with SD DVD.

720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P. So anyone with a video processor capable of inverse telecine 1080i de-interlacing should take advantage of it even if you are outputting 720P.

Remote is improved from A1, it is more like a regular DVD remote, but its buttons are small and there is no way you can see what they are in the dark.

Just my observations so far.

Thanks Kris....do you feel if you have a 720p display, it would be best to set the player to 720p..vs 1080i ? I guess I can do my own comparison....On my XA1, I found little difference between 720p and 1080i, thus stayed with 1080i as many have stated as well.

FORMATNEUTRAL


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post #73 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

Where are the photos !?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=764683&page=2
go to bottom of thread
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post #74 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:56 PM
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Funny that one resolution would have CUE but not others.

The Panny had CUE after 1.2, right Kris? Can we assume this could go away with a f/w fix?

Everything else sounds great.

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post #75 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

The player has CUE problems with 1080i out but doesn't with 720P. No CUE at all with SD DVD.

Did the A1 was the CUE issue or is that a "downgrade"?

Thanks,
Chris
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post #76 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:00 PM
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black dot

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post #77 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Got the player today.

Startup time, 35-45 seconds. Disc loading to play, 5-15 seconds depending on the disc. WAY faster than the A1 with loading.

The player does not clip head and toe room, no pixel cropping. It can resolve the full resolution of HD with both chroma and luma signals. No Y/C delay.

The player has CUE problems with 1080i out but doesn't with 720P. No CUE at all with SD DVD.

720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P. So anyone with a video processor capable of inverse telecine 1080i de-interlacing should take advantage of it even if you are outputting 720P.

Remote is improved from A1, it is more like a regular DVD remote, but its buttons are small and there is no way you can see what they are in the dark.

Just my observations so far.

Thats all fine and good but how does the picture look??????

SD = equal or better than the A1
HD = equal or better than the A1

Please sticky this thread!
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post #78 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:12 PM
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Does enyone know or have a link to how many A2's Tosh has for release?
Ta.
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post #79 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:17 PM
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How's the upconversion with SD DVD's? As good or better than the HD-A1?

Sometimes I think my brain has a mind of its own.
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post #80 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:18 PM
 
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rover, very very few today, but a strong and steady flow is expected over the next few weeks.

-Robert
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post #81 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schlotkins View Post

Did the A1 was the CUE issue or is that a "downgrade"?

Thanks,
Chris

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8991978

Stacey is amazing. Here are his last objective measurements. I await his and Kris's assesments of the A2/XA2.

"11-25-06, 10:42 PM #1 (Print)
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PS3 Objective Measurements
I ran some objective tests on the PS3 today, my results are below. I have included Panasonic, Samsung and Toshiba results as well. I only looked at the HDMI to HDMI scenario.

I fed the output of the PS3 (and other players) into a DVDO VP50 and then into the Marantz VP11S1. I looked at both the 1080p and 1080i outputs.


HDMI Output Format
PS3
R'G'B'

Panasonic DMP-BD10
Y'CbCr 4:4:4

Toshiba HD-A1
Y'CbCr 4:2:2

Samsung BD-P1000
Y'CbCr 4:4:4

Pixel Cropping:
PS3
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Toshiba HD-A1
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Samsung BD-P1000
Left: 8
Top: 2
Right: 1
Bottom: 0
Comments: As you can tell, the Samsung is not able to provide a true 1920x1080 active image. You are only getting 1911x1078 of real picture.

Dynamic Range - HDMI to HDMI
PS3
Above White - Fail - Clips
Below Black - Fail - Clips


Panasonic DMP-BD10
Above White - Fail - Clips
Below Black - Fail - Clips

Comments: The player has built-in picture controls. If you lower contrast down to -4 through -7, it will no longer clip. However, you are compressing the dynamic range. Steps are introduced, which show up as contouring. If you adjust brightness, you can make below black appear. If you do this, you are actually raising the black level of the player. I suspect this clipping may be caused by the bug in the Silicon Image 9030 HDMI transmitter. If they were to output Y'CbCr 4:2:2, it may fix the problem. I recommend you do not change the picture controls.

Toshiba HD-A1
Above White - Pass
Below Black - Pass

Samsung BD-P1000
Above White - Pass
Below Black - Pass

Luma Resolution
I looked at both horizontal and vertical resolution out to Nyquist. All four players were fine in this regard. There was no apparent roll-off.

Chroma Resolution
PS3
The horizontal Nyquist burst was rolled-off. It was not gone like the BD-10, but not as good as the Samsung and Toshiba.


Panasonic DMP-BD10
The horizontal Nyquist burst was pretty much gray. Something in the player must be filtering out this high resolution information. Vertical was fine.

Toshiba HD-A1
Both horizontal and vertical produced the full resolution out to Nyquist.

Samsung BD-P1000
There was a loss of vertical resolution at Nyquist. I suspect this is caused by the filtering in the Cortez (Genesis/Faroudja) chip.

Chroma Bug
PS3
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Pass - This player does not suffer from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Pass - This player does not suffer from 2-3 chroma bug.

Comments: The upsampling it not high quality, though it is correct. You can see some steps in the chroma. The BD-10 looked better, when it did not have CUE.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Pass - This player does not suffer from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Pass - This player does not suffer from 2-3 chroma bug.

*1.02 FW update - I am not sure what happened, but it now has CUE. I am going to try and locate a 1.0 player just to double check my original results.
2-2: Fail - This player suffers from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail - This player suffers from 2-3 chroma bug.


Toshiba HD-A1
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Fail - This player suffers from the 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail - This player suffers from the 2-3 chroma bug.


Samsung BD-P1000
ICP: This player does include a filter to reduce the ICP artifact. Sadly it is present on both 1080i and 1080p. If a filter is included, it should only exist for the 1080p output.
2-2: Fail - This player suffers from the 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail - This player suffers from the 2-3 chroma bug.


Deinterlacing
The PS3 does not appear to be able to output 1080p when the source is encoded as 1080i. It changes the output resolution back to 1080i while 1080i content is playing. The Panasonic is using the AVC2510 while the Samsung is using the Cortez. Neither player can deinterlace 2-2, but both support 2-3 deinterlacing.

If you have the DVDO VP50, Anthem D2 or the Marantz VP11S1, I highly recommend you use the 1080i output of these players. It will do a better job creating the 1080p image than the players will. "

I have bolded where units failed. As you can see the A1 fails the ICP test and exhibits CUE (unbeknowest to me). Otherwise it beats or meets his rigorous tests.

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post #82 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:19 PM
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funny, bestbuy.com lists the A1 and the A2 for $499....hmmmm which to get haha. I am surprised the A1 is even listed, they haven't had them for quite a while...
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post #83 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:21 PM
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post #84 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:22 PM
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Wow, the A2 is much smaller then the tank that is the A1.


Hopfully HT magazine will take apart a A2 showing the inarrds. I guess less PC like. More like the inside of a DVD player......
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post #85 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:31 PM
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Well thats to bad for me because the BB by me around Milwaukee, WI. I asked them and they looked it up and it said the 14th is when the ETA was for them... I really just want to see the demo or have something up so BD does not get all the attention!
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post #86 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:38 PM
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Can someone explain the CUE issue in layman terms? Is it a big deal? Seems like the A1 had it and no one cared, so I guess it's not something we will notice if we don't look for it?

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post #87 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

rover, very very few today, but a strong and steady flow is expected over the next few weeks.

-Robert

Thanks Rob.I was actully after the number they have on whole, i'm sure they will release it eventully.
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post #88 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:43 PM
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Can anyone tell me how long it takes for the door to open if you press the Eject button when power is off?
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post #89 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:44 PM
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Is the A2 still made in Japan like the A1?
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post #90 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eapleitez View Post

Can someone explain the CUE issue in layman terms? Is it a big deal? Seems like the A1 had it and no one cared, so I guess it's not something we will notice if we don't look for it?

CUE (Chroma Upsampling Error) is an error created when the MPEG decoder only provides color for every other line in a display. This is really noticable in color saturated presentations like digital animation and other dense, solid color blocks.

That's CUE in a nutshell. Check out this link for a more thorough explanation.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...ug-4-2001.html

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