Tosh HD-A2 HD DVD - First End User Reports! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceflow View Post

CUE (Chroma Upsampling Error) is an error created when the MPEG decoder only provides color for every other line in a display. This is really noticable in color saturated presentations like digital animation and other dense, solid color blocks.

That's CUE in a nutshell. Check out this link for a more thorough explanation.

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volum...ug-4-2001.html


Thanks. That sounds like a big problem IMO, hopefully it is correctable with firmware. This shouldn't affect VC1 encodes, though, right?

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post #92 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

Is the A2 still made in Japan like the A1?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9109168

"
These first A2s are made by Toshiba in Japan.

They were built in December 2006 as Toshiba produced a new run to replace the first production rather than fixing them. I applaud Toshiba USA and Japan for working so hard and doing things so very well.

-Robert "
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post #93 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eapleitez View Post

Thanks. That sounds like a big problem IMO, hopefully it is correctable with firmware. This shouldn't affect VC1 encodes, though, right?

Just SD DVD AFAIK.

CUE isn't really a big deal. I mean, its annoying and I wish that 5 years after it was discovered we wouldn't have to discuss it, but there are bigger issues.

The Chroma filtering on all BD units is bad (especially vertical filtering on the sammy). The BTB and WTW issues would annoy me more than CUE as they affect HD and SD. I have CRT so losing BTB and WTW really, really sucks. I think the Tosh runs hot, but I can't imagine having a unit fail BTB, it would be returned for negating one huge benefit of CRT. The sammy clipping some pixels would annoy fixed pixel display owners, it wouldn't bother me (overscan).

All in all, the Tosh only failed CUE. That's better than all other units on the market. The A2 seems even better, failing on 1 resolution (1080i, the best resolution!). Oh well, hopefully they can fix it without resorting to filtering.

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post #94 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:14 PM
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Playing around I can report a few things...

1. It's much quieter than the A1 (very quiet).
2. HDMI and Component are active at the same time (along with S-Video).
3. From memory the HD image/sound appear very close (the same?) to the A1's. I don't play DVDs.
4. So far no hiccups, etc.
5. Turned off it opens the door in about 39 seconds.
6. Overall it responses much faster.
7. The A1's remote works with the A2.
8. The player's firmware is currrent.
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post #95 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:17 PM
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This makes me want an A2. Yum. Can't wait to hear more.

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post #96 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R View Post

Playing around I can report a few things...

1. It's much quieter than the A1 (very quiet).
2. HDMI and Component are active at the same time (along with S-Video).
3. From memory the HD image/sound appear very close (the same?) to the A1's. I don't play DVDs.
4. So far no hiccups, etc.
5. Turned off it opens the door in about 39 seconds.
6. Overall it responses much faster.

Sounds great! Thanks Charles.
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post #97 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forceflow View Post

Just SD DVD AFAIK.


Maybe that was a typo by Kris? He says no CUE with SD DVD, maybe he meant HD DVD? Can you confirm, Kris?

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post #98 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris Deering View Post

Got the player today.

Startup time, 35-45 seconds. Disc loading to play, 5-15 seconds depending on the disc. WAY faster than the A1 with loading.

The player does not clip head and toe room, no pixel cropping. It can resolve the full resolution of HD with both chroma and luma signals. No Y/C delay.

The player has CUE problems with 1080i out but doesn't with 720P. No CUE at all with SD DVD.

720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P. So anyone with a video processor capable of inverse telecine 1080i de-interlacing should take advantage of it even if you are outputting 720P.

Remote is improved from A1, it is more like a regular DVD remote, but its buttons are small and there is no way you can see what they are in the dark.

Just my observations so far.

Kris, Can you explain to me in laymen terms what you mean by "720P is not inverse telecine from 1080P. So this player is not doing the right conversion from the source to 720P. So anyone with a video processor capable of inverse telecine 1080i de-interlacing should take advantage of it even if you are outputting 720P."?

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post #99 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:25 PM
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CUE doesn't really bother me that much. Actually, I wouldn't be using this player for SD DVDs anyway.

For those with HD-A1 audio lag issues, please be sure to tell us if the A2 has the same behaviour on the same discs.
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post #100 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:29 PM
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Quote:


Thanks. That sounds like a big problem IMO, hopefully it is correctable with firmware. This shouldn't affect VC1 encodes, though, right?

The Toshiba HD-A1, Toshiba HD-A2, Samsung BD-P1000, Panasonic DMP-BD10, and Sony BDP-S1 all suffer from CUE (Chroma Upsampling Error) with their current firmware version.

It's not specific to the A2 by any means, although it would be nice if Toshiba could get that fixed.
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post #101 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

CUE doesn't really bother me that much. Actually, I wouldn't be using this player for SD DVDs anyway.

For those with HD-A1 audio lag issues, please be sure to tell us if the A2 has the same behaviour on the same discs.

Sounds like the CUE bug is in the VC1 interlaced code only. I wonder just how noticable it is during normal viewing.
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post #102 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eapleitez View Post

Maybe that was a typo by Kris? He says no CUE with SD DVD, maybe he meant HD DVD? Can you confirm, Kris?

I think the CUE may be in the HD, not the SD if Kris says HD DVD. I knew there was some confusion earlier and I didn't stick around to care about whether it was in the HD or SD. I was too hopeful that it was the SD (I could live with that).

I would wait for confirmation from him before concluding it.

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post #103 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:40 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlhoppe View Post

Sounds like the CUE bug is in the VC1 interlaced code only. I wonder just how noticable it is during normal viewing.

it has nothing to do with vc1 as mentioned above the old a1 had it most blu ray players have it and other problems on those players.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9109134
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post #104 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1loudsuv View Post

it has nothing to do with vc1 as mentioned above the old a1 had it most blu ray players have it and other problems on those players.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9109134

Would the players have a better picture quality if they didn't have CUE?
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post #105 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1loudsuv View Post

it has nothing to do with vc1 as mentioned above the old a1 had it most blu ray players have it and other problems on those players.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9109134

CUE is the result of a decoder logic flaw, right? The MPEG decoder used on the Tosh for DVD does not seem to have the logic flaw. Blu-ray is based on MPEG, right? The CUE problems with them is their MPEG decoder logic. The VC1 decoder in the Tosh is where the problem seems to be since it only shows in the 1080i output from HD disks. Maybe it's a "conversion" error (1080p to 1080i) after the decoding takes place, since conversion to 720p does not show the CUE symptoms. It'll be interesting to hear if there are issues in the XA2 with 1080p output.
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post #106 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:09 PM
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Wow thats great news because I should be getting the 1080p version when it comes out.

Quick question - How is the detail? Sharper, smoother? And how are the colors, do they appear the same? And are you having any lip sync issues?

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post #107 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:10 PM
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I was able to pick one up at BBY. This is my first HD DVD player. I'm watching Riddick right now and am very happy.

Regarding the loudness/quietness of the A2. I happen to have the player only about 4 or 5 feet from me while watching. I have never noticed the sound of my standard DVD player during quite portions of a movie. I do, however, notice the sound coming from the A2. It's not terribly loud or anything, but I do notice it. Is it possible my A2 is louder than it should be? Or is it reasonable to expect this HD DVD player to be somewhat louder than my old standard Toshiba DVD player?
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post #108 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:17 PM
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SD DVD didn't show signs of CUE. 1080i did with an HD DVD test disc, 720P did not.

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post #109 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:23 PM
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Kris, were you able to test the A2 with an HDMI->DVI cable, using a DVI display or video processor? Does the A2 clip head / toe room when connected to a DVI device? Are the white/black levels correct when the A2 is connected to a DVI device?
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post #110 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:25 PM
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When switching input on the display, does the A2 drops the video connection like A1?

Daniel
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post #111 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:27 PM
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so far the A2 seems to be doing swell.
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post #112 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:31 PM
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Kris,

IIRC, your Toshiba HD-A1 DVD tests showed CUE. Does that mean the A2 is an improvement, as far as DVD playback goes?
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post #113 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:33 PM
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Kris, How would the A2 fare in your opinion as a 480i device for playing SD-DVDs through a video processor (compared to say the Oppo 970HD)? Do you have to manually set the output resolution down to 480i for sd-dvd's and back to 1080i for HD-DVD's or does the player remember the SD and HD-DVD output resolutions separately?
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post #114 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:38 PM
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You should file a lawsuit against that store. They raised your expectations and made you expend wear and tear on your car and use gas that isn't cheap. They should at least reimburse you for the gas and emotional distress.

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post #115 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 10:49 PM
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post #116 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 11:26 PM
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39 seconds sounds damn slow. Doesn't seem like it is worth the upgrade speed wise.
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post #117 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 11:37 PM
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Originally Posted by azmodien View Post

39 seconds sounds damn slow. Doesn't seem like it is worth the upgrade speed wise.

It sounds like the player boots up and then opens the drawer. They likely could have had the drawer open it immediately and then after the player boots up the disc begins to play. If you leave your player on you don't have to worry about this. These should run cooler than the HD-A1s.
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post #118 of 5306 Old 12-07-2006, 11:51 PM
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That's sure is a nice looking unit... might have to put my HDA1 up for sale - Scratch that, I need 5.1 analogs - Rats

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post #119 of 5306 Old 12-08-2006, 01:01 AM
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post #120 of 5306 Old 12-08-2006, 01:27 AM
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Here is an important question. Does the A2 come up with HDMI error when switching display unit (i.e. Optoma HD70) to another output? This I felt was the most annoying issue with the A1.

Also, does it have resume feature?
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