HD-A2 using optical audio vs. analog 5.1.. - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 56 Old 12-09-2006, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zork52 View Post

HP,

So I gather you switch back and forth depending if the disc has the TrueHD and DD+ encoding or just the standard DD and DTS?

My B+K is a pre/proc. I guess I would have that same option using the 2 methods of connection somehow...........I"ll have to check that out.

I would still think if I've calibrated my system already I should just be able to connect it up and go, except have to turn up the volume for movies???

Or is it that the player is like the processor all unto itself and "doesn't care" what my pre/proc has the speaker levels ( including sub ) calibrated at?

I switch back and forth just to listen and appreciate the qualitative difference between the two. My regular listening though is always with the analogs - DD+/TrueHD. Of course as you know the optical will only pass a DTS signal doesn't matter if the track is in DD.

Since I don't have a pre/proc I can only tell you what I do and once calibrated that's it. Through analogs I calibrated with the separate multi ch input levels on my Yamaha receiver. The analog processing of the receiver allows, speaker size, bass cross-over, speaker db level including sbwf level. All these are available on the A1 but are limited and not well implemented as noted various places on this site. That means my Yamaha receiver overrides these adjustments.

On the optical side, since the A1/A2 passes a DTS signal through that input and since it's on the digital input side I can apply whatever processing available to the DTS such EX/ES processing to make use of my center rear speaker, etc.. None of these adjustments effect the analog levels through multi ch input..
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post #32 of 56 Old 12-09-2006, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

Monoprice sells a 3x1 optical selector for under $8

Thanks. So now I need a HDMI selector and optical selector. I will have to write an instruction manual for my wife. To watch HD-DVD you need to select optical input B then select input A for HDMI then set the receiver to VIDEO1. Hmm. I guess the only real solution is a HDMI receiver; but wait all the decent prices only have 2 in and 1 out. To be realistic it needs to have 4 in and 1 out, however, those will set me back $1500.
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post #33 of 56 Old 12-10-2006, 06:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jayselle View Post

Thanks. So now I need a HDMI selector and optical selector. I will have to write an instruction manual for my wife. To watch HD-DVD you need to select optical input B then select input A for HDMI then set the receiver to VIDEO1. Hmm. I guess the only real solution is a HDMI receiver; but wait all the decent prices only have 2 in and 1 out. To be realistic it needs to have 4 in and 1 out, however, those will set me back $1500.

this is why i made plans to update speakers/receiver in 2008/9. just making due with older stuff now which still looks/sounds better then it ever did with dvd.

i would actually like a receiver with hdmi 4 in / 2 out.
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post #34 of 56 Old 12-10-2006, 08:22 AM
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Great thread

I am debating picking up an A1 or A2. In my rush to purchase a receiver, I picked up a Pio 1016 4 months ago. At the time I thought it would pass True HD via HDMI. I even got 3 confirming emails from a CSR at Pio.

What is confusing is reading posts that say you need HDMI ver 1.1 or 1.2a or no 1.3 to get True HD. After a new plasma, new speakers, new receiver, new basement, new baby, another new recover isn't going to happen this year.

I like the look and reported load times of the A2 and since reports are it up converts just as well as the A1 I may go pick it up and upgrade the receiver in a year. There is just the nagging feeling of missing out on the DD+/TrueHD.
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post #35 of 56 Old 12-10-2006, 08:58 AM
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Thanks. So now I need a HDMI selector and optical selector. I will have to write an instruction manual for my wife. To watch HD-DVD you need to select optical input B then select input A for HDMI then set the receiver to VIDEO1. Hmm. I guess the only real solution is a HDMI receiver; but wait all the decent prices only have 2 in and 1 out. To be realistic it needs to have 4 in and 1 out, however, those will set me back $1500.

You should seriously consider the purchase of a Logitech Harmony remote. That thing saves marriages.

The Logitech Harmony remotes perform all these functions automatically with one button press. Keep an eye on Fatwallet for deals on the Harmony 880 -- they've gone for $50 to $105.
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post #36 of 56 Old 12-10-2006, 09:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Spur View Post

Great thread

I am debating picking up an A1 or A2. In my rush to purchase a receiver, I picked up a Pio 1016 4 months ago. At the time I thought it would pass True HD via HDMI. I even got 3 confirming emails from a CSR at Pio.
...
I like the look and reported load times of the A2 and since reports are it up converts just as well as the A1 I may go pick it up and upgrade the receiver in a year. There is just the nagging feeling of missing out on the DD+/TrueHD.

when i picked up my a1 the a2 specs were arlready out and i bought the a1 for the analog outs. IMHO you need a very high quality analog receiver/amp and high quality speaker setup to fully use the analog outs for trueHD.

there are only a handful of titles with trueHD. so, other then experimenting with it, i don't use the analog outs anymore because i get better overall results with optical.

if they raise the output level of the sub on the a1 in firmware 2.?, i might switch to usning analog. i don't mind tinkering so the a1 is just fine for me. anybody else i know would probably like the a2/optical and not really miss trueHD over analog. i can hear the difference but need better equipement in speakers and receiver to use it.
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post #37 of 56 Old 12-10-2006, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

You should seriously consider the purchase of a Logitech Harmony remote. That thing saves marriages.

The Logitech Harmony remotes perform all these functions automatically with one button press. Keep an eye on Fatwallet for deals on the Harmony 880 -- they've gone for $50 to $105.

The PS3 in it's infinite wisdom uses only bluetooth. Hopefully logitech will release a model with IR and bluetooth.
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post #38 of 56 Old 12-10-2006, 01:12 PM
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Posted from another thread but seems more relevant here:

I've got a high end $3000 receiver. I won't be upgrading anytime soon. My receiver does NOT have HDMI, so if I get the A1, I would use 5.1 analog inputs.
If I get the A2, I'm 'stuck' with optical.

Is the sound really that much of a difference with the optical versus 5.1 analog?

I want the A2, but not if the sound difference is going to be that dramatic.

Seems like I wouldn't be too disappointed with with optical for now. Zero plans to upgrade my receiver anytime in the near future.

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post #39 of 56 Old 12-10-2006, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bqmeister View Post

Posted from another thread but seems more relevant here:

I've got a high end $3000 receiver. I won't be upgrading anytime soon. My receiver does NOT have HDMI, so if I get the A1, I would use 5.1 analog inputs.
If I get the A2, I'm 'stuck' with optical.

Is the sound really that much of a difference with the optical versus 5.1 analog?

I want the A2, but not if the sound difference is going to be that dramatic.

Seems like I wouldn't be too disappointed with with optical for now. Zero plans to upgrade my receiver anytime in the near future.

My experience with optical/coax versus analog 5.1 using the XA1 is that the analog 5.1 is 'clearly' better . More realistic soundstage, better clarity in sound, better defined surround actitivty, etc. No problem with low-end response after I dialed in the sound levels with AVIA and a SPL meter.

I split the input to the surrounds so that both the surrounds and rears in my speaker configuration would be active when using 5.1 analog from the XA1. After calibrating the sound level for that setup, the sound quality is pretty amazing. And that is comparing the analog 5.1 to optical/coax that has been dialed in with HK's EZSet/EQ, which is a great tool, and also running the sound thru Logic 7 for the full 7.1 'treatment'.

The optical/coax connection definitely sounds good, but when comparing the two on each new disk, I always end up with the 5.1 analog connection.

web
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post #40 of 56 Old 12-10-2006, 02:24 PM
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So should I get the hd-a1 with the current problems, get the a2 without the analog outs, or wait for a gen3 player?

-bq

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post #41 of 56 Old 12-12-2006, 11:59 PM
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Why does the A2 output in DTS via optical anyway? I know that DD+ and TrueHD downconversion is necessary for optical or coaxial transmission, but why DTS and not DD?
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post #42 of 56 Old 12-13-2006, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPforMe View Post

The difference is noticeable on big sound disks such as Batman Begins. Since I have both the optical and analog hooked up to my Yamaha RX-V550 I have the luxury of immediately changing by a click of my audio remote the inputs from DTS (converted DD+ or TrueHD tracks through optical) to DD+/TrueHD analog. There is clear and unequivocal difference - clarity, cleaner sound, wider sound fied. Those more subtle sounds are brought to the fore and have depth and clarity.

My experience exactly. I question those who are saying that the DTS bitstream is "just as good" or "all you need". I am very happy I have the XA1 with analog outs so I can experience the upgraded sound quality these lossless tracks exhibit.

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post #43 of 56 Old 12-13-2006, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

My experience exactly. I question those who are saying that the DTS bitstream is "just as good" or "all you need". I am very happy I have the XA1 with analog outs so I can experience the upgraded sound quality these lossless tracks exhibit.


It depends on one's setup - HTIB in a room with lousy acoustics isn't going to benefit much from lossless codecs v. 1.5 DTS. On the other hand, $10k worth of compnents in a dedicated HT room will definitely benefit from True-HD, DTS-HD or uncompressed LPCM. For those in between, whether the difference is worthwhile will vary with taste and hassle factor. Some will prefer the slightly better sound, others will want to keep the 6.1 or 7.1 processing via digital.

Go Duke !
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post #44 of 56 Old 12-13-2006, 10:37 AM
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ok so im still confused. i bought a a-2 and using hdmi to my yamaha rv-x4600 receiver now would a a-1 with analog out sound better? im kinda confused on what i should have it set too. its set on pcm but what about the other settings?

Joe.T
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post #45 of 56 Old 12-13-2006, 11:25 AM
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Be careful about going the optical route - the first generation of Toshiba players produced an audio delay caused by the Toshiba converting the source audio to DTS on the fly, resulting in soundtracks being out-of-synch.

Hopefully they've done something to address this in the 2nd generation players.
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post #46 of 56 Old 12-13-2006, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Buttabean View Post

ok so im still confused. i bought a a-2 and using hdmi to my yamaha rv-x4600 receiver now would a a-1 with analog out sound better? im kinda confused on what i should have it set too. its set on pcm but what about the other settings?

If your receiver supports HDMI, then PCM over HDMi is the way to go. The analog outs are for anyone who wishes to hear the lossless formats and doesn't have an HDMI receiver. The optical and coaxal digital connections will downsample the lossless formats to a DTS bitstream.

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post #47 of 56 Old 12-13-2006, 02:24 PM
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I am having problems with my xa1 and the analog output. I hooked it up like shown in the manual with 3 separate analog rca cables to my reciever. But there is an echo sound in hd dvd's. I don't hear the echo when playing cd's though. There is also a slight but very annoying audio delay that creates lip synch problems. The last problem is the volume level on hd dvd's has to be cranked for appropriate sound levels. Is it possible this creates the echo sound? I don't know what is going on. The echo is not severe and my wife does not notice much.

Maybe I just need to know how to tweak my reciever, or maybe there is an adjustment on my xa1. I have not updated the firmware for the xa1 either so maybe I could try that too.

Any suggestions?

btw I currently do not have a tv to test out any theories you may have immediately, but I will try next week when I take delivery of the Pio 5070. cant wait!
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post #48 of 56 Old 12-13-2006, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

If your receiver supports HDMI, then PCM over HDMi is the way to go. The analog outs are for anyone who wishes to hear the lossless formats and doesn't have an HDMI receiver. The optical and coaxal digital connections will downsample the lossless formats to a DTS bitstream.

ah good to know. what are the advantages you think will see having 1.2a over a 1.1 hdmi receiver?

Joe.T
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post #49 of 56 Old 12-13-2006, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

Monoprice sells a 3x1 optical selector for under $8

I have this one and it works great.
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post #50 of 56 Old 06-07-2007, 11:01 AM
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Can someone could confirm if the Denon AVr 3802 will work with A-2 through Optical connection .
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post #51 of 56 Old 06-14-2007, 02:25 AM
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As stated previously in this thread's second post: DVD opitcal = 448 kbps / HD DVD optical = 1.5 mbps / HD DVD hdmi = up to 3.0 mbps

So what's the "mbps" for the 5.1 analog if it was on the hd-a2? same as hdmi?
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post #52 of 56 Old 06-14-2007, 08:23 AM
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Approx $19 from Parts Express:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...ID=16151&DID=7
Quote:


The Dayton Audio digital converter is the ideal problem solver when your equipment does not have the input or output you need. It will convert an optical signal (Toslink) to a digital signal (coaxial). 6VDC power supply is included.

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post #53 of 56 Old 06-14-2007, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by web View Post

My experience with optical/coax versus analog 5.1 using the XA1 is that the analog 5.1 is 'clearly' better . More realistic soundstage, better clarity in sound, better defined surround actitivty, etc. No problem with low-end response after I dialed in the sound levels with AVIA and a SPL meter.

I split the input to the surrounds so that both the surrounds and rears in my speaker configuration would be active when using 5.1 analog from the XA1. After calibrating the sound level for that setup, the sound quality is pretty amazing. And that is comparing the analog 5.1 to optical/coax that has been dialed in with HK's EZSet/EQ, which is a great tool, and also running the sound thru Logic 7 for the full 7.1 'treatment'.

The optical/coax connection definitely sounds good, but when comparing the two on each new disk, I always end up with the 5.1 analog connection.

web

Do you mean that you physically split the two analog signals from the HD-XA2 that are surrounds and feed them into your 7.1 analog ins on your receiver?
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post #54 of 56 Old 06-14-2007, 01:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwsat View Post

I agree that this has been an excellent thread. I am now encouraged to believe that an optical audio connection between an HD-A1 or HD-A2 and my HT receiver would satisfy my audio needs quite nicely. I have a nearly three year old Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver that don't know nassing bout no steenkin' HDMI.

FYI: Toshiba HD-A1: If you want to experience TrueHD (studio-master-quality sound) with your Yamaha RX-V2400, ... then you should use the HD-A1 6CH Analog OUTput to your RX-V2400 MULTI 6CH INPUT.

I did that with my Yahama RX-V1300 and the following HD DVD's in my library (requires TrueHD Menu selection) just sounds dynamic & glorious ...

1) "Batman Begins"
2) "Happy Feet"
3) "Superman Returns"
4) "The Phantom of the Opera"
5) "Posideon"
6) "The World's Fastest Indian"

All other HD DVD sound formats like DD+, etc., automatically plays thru via HD-A1 6CH Analog OUTputs.

Toshiba HD-A2:
To experience TrueHD with the newer HD DVD player HD-A2, ... you would need to upgrade your AV Receiver w/HDMI Inputs.

Phil
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post #55 of 56 Old 06-14-2007, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bing View Post

Why does the A2 output in DTS via optical anyway? I know that DD+ and TrueHD downconversion is necessary for optical or coaxial transmission, but why DTS and not DD?

Simple--backwards compatibility and horsepower needed for DD vs. DTS encoding.

1. Processors and receivers that are DTS-capable will accept a DTS bitstream up to 1.5Mbps, whereas only up to 640kbps for DD.

2. The computing horsepower and DD encoding process for a 448/640kpbs DD bitstream is more complex than that for a 1.5Mbps DTS bitstream. So some cost is saved.

3. Some would argue (including myself) that a 1.5Mbps DTS sounds better than 448kbps DD.

Thank both Dolby and DTS for allowing this to happen. Without agreement from both parties, this transcoding would not have happened. This, IMHO, is by far the most logical way to ensure maximum backward compatibility, while maximizing sound quality for these transcoded stream.

I would encourage you to experiment in your setup between the transcoded DTS SPDIF output and 5.1 analog bypass (assuming your player also has 5.1 analog output). I would say that in most setups, the differences will by anything but starck. But I'd guess that in almost every case, a transcoded TrueHD track will sound noticably better than any standard DD and/or DTS track from a regular DVD.
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post #56 of 56 Old 06-15-2007, 08:06 AM
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I have a question in a similiar vein. I have a Sony DE-825 receiver. It does not have DTS. I was counting on running optical out for DD. So, I am going to lose my surround sound because I upgraded?!? ? I know I need to upgrade my receiver, but other things take precedence
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