HD-XA2 update - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 516 Old 12-30-2006, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I recommend you watch a 24fps presentation before you make this comment. 24fps is anything but silky smooth. Check out your local cineplex for a long horizontal pan. They run at 48fps, plenty of stuttering to be seen.


I KNEW someone was going to post this out!

He asked me to put it in laymens terms. IMO laymens terms don't include going into a discussion about the actually refresh rate that is used to display the 24 hertz input. He asked for a description of the real world differences between what he'll see on his 1080p60 display and what he'd see on a display capable of accepting a 1080p24 signal, and those were the terms I put it in.
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post #182 of 516 Old 12-30-2006, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I enjoy reading Robert's posts and he has been an asset to AVS forum. How many people have been spared paying MSRP for electronics? That alone is worth its weight in gold! Yes he runs a business but how many of those other companies take the time to post good info on product specs and availability? How many of those other companies charge full price? He is what makes AVS good... Any cheap shots against him I find definitely lack merit. His business is very successful without AVS. He comes here because he shares the same passion as many of us do, electronics. So let's relax and hold our commentaries about the XA2 until next week when the product actually starts shipping. Have a Happy New Year- Robert and AVS FORUM!


Great post. I've talked and PM'd for months with Robert, before finally getting an XA1 last week. I'm not sure if I would benefit more from the XA2 or not yet, and haven't really had the chance to shake down the XA1 because of other system problems.

But it seems Robert, who probably has zero hours to spare always gets around to answering everyone's questions. I am amazed by people poking shots at him and then thanking him and telling him to keep posting.

You've gotta figure he's not allowed to say much until the units are actually here and shipping for disclosure agreement reasons.

And I also agree you're free to buy the unit anywhere you want. Robert's staff is top notch with very fast service, and I hope Robert sees this posts and shows his crew. Kudos to VE and God Bless Robert for all his patience with the trollers on here. It can be a very tough crowd for those that enter sometimes.
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post #183 of 516 Old 12-30-2006, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam S View Post

I recommend you watch a 24fps presentation before you make this comment. 24fps is anything but silky smooth. Check out your local cineplex for a long horizontal pan. They run at 48fps, plenty of stuttering to be seen.

Exactly right which is why your local theatre shows it at 48 fps.
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post #184 of 516 Old 12-30-2006, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

Robert, could you or someone here that has a A2 and XA2, PLEASE POST comparative shots of some Tier 1 movies for HD-DVD and please do the same for SD-DVD upconversion.

I'm just curious as to how much better the XA2 will be.

Folks keep trying to politely suggest to you that a digital picture of two identical displays beside each other showing the same scene would be meaningless.
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post #185 of 516 Old 12-30-2006, 09:02 PM
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With the emphasis on high performance video DACs with the HD-XA2 should I expect a fantastic s-video signal? The reason I ask is that my TV's component inputs do not automatically switch between 1080i for HD DVD and 480p for SD DVD. My Loewe Aconda direct view CRT has very respectable s-video processing. I have been very impressed with the results using really good DVD players with my TV. Having a good s-video source for SD DVDs would remove my last barrier for going HD DVD. The HD-XA2 is looking very attractive to me right now since my receiver doesn't have the best digital signal processing but does a great job pumping audio through the 5.1 analog inputs. Since I only have a single set of 5.1 analog inputs I really want a combined SD DVD HD DVD player. The Reon is also attractive for when I figure out a way in the future to use it for SD DVD.

While we are on the topic are other folks using the s-video successfully with the G1 players or the HD-A2?
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post #186 of 516 Old 12-30-2006, 09:10 PM
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Quote:


Just HOW big a difference is it for us 2006 Sam DLP owners NOT to have 1080p/24 capability? Is it earth shattering?

It's unclear yet what other improvements they will have. I think the verdict is still out.

Keep in mind 2007 models aren't likely to ship before March or April, and they may not ship until June or July. We'll know more in two weeks.

Quote:


Can anyone explain in layman terms what the difference would be? I just got a XA1 from Robert at VE, but waiting for firmware upgrade from Tosh to see if some problems go away with the player/TV handshaking issue.

The HD-A2 (and presumably the HD-XA2) do a much better job with handshaking, in my experience. On the A1, you'll sit waiting at the blue screen sometimes for the sync, whereas you almost never get that with the A2/XA2.

With 24p input on 2007 models, you would see a more fluid / film-like image, particularly with movement (or camera pans) from one side of the screen to the other.

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post #187 of 516 Old 12-30-2006, 09:25 PM
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Maybe this is a dumb question but I'll ask it anyway....

I have an Optoma H79 HD projector that displays up to 1080i only. Will I benefit from the HD-XA2?
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post #188 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 12:51 AM
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Robert (DTV TiVo Dealer), can you confirm that the G2 players are ready for triple layer discs, like stated in this Toshiba Canada brochure.: ??

http://web1.toshiba.ca/toshibahddvd/...ochure_web.pdf

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post #189 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 12:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighDeff View Post

Robert, can you confirm that the G2 players are ready for triple layer discs, like stated in this Toshiba Canada brochure.: ??

http://web1.toshiba.ca/toshibahddvd/...ochure_web.pdf


I think they are since they have an option in setup for dual format discs.
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post #190 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 02:42 AM
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Will they start making these new generation-players regionfree yet??????
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post #191 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 05:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLion View Post

madshi,

don't get your hopes up. The decoder of the XA2 is decoding into an 1080i/60 stream. The REON chip is doing the IVTC for 1080p/60 output -> THAT's the reason Toshiba included the Silicon Optix chip in the first place. You know me - I keep pushing for "native, untouched, unprocessed,... " 1080p/24 output for months now. And I would much prefer the 1080p/60 output to be done without 1080i step (frame rate conversion of the native 1080p/24 stream) - but I don't see it happening with HD-DVD in the forseeable future - this has been discussed many times and is discussed right now in the insider thread again, so I don't want to argue here.

That being said I think Toshiba made the very best decision given the lack of native 1080p/24 decoding. They integrated a "state-of-the-art" (+ much hyped ) Silicon Optix solution to do the IVTC (among other "important" features like selective color correction to finally make the skies in Seabiscuit as blue as I ever wanted them to be ) - which is about the best solution they could have come up with. So I guess I will stop complaining, accept that there will not be a native 24p/60p decoding/output path with HD-DVD (for some time) and just ENJOY the XA2. My educated guess is that it will be the best next generation HD player on both sides of the fence yet - it has all the bases covered -> complete next generation audio decoding (including DTS-HD MA decoding per firmware update in spring), "crooked" 60p/24p output, Silicon Optix filter like detail enhancement, great looks and material/build quality and above all much improved responsiveness compared to G1. I'm looking forward to it.

Hello,

I 've got one question on this. If the SO chip is doing the processing to 1080/24p anyway wouldn't it be possible (and desirable) to offer also the signals 1080/48i and /or 720/48p. I think these signals are supported from the most of the 720p displays. And there are a lot out there. Displays that accept 1080/24p are pretty rare at present afaik.
I would be glad if somebody from the specialists could comment on this. Thanks in avance.

BTW: many thanks to you Robert for sharing all this information with us here. Best wishes and a happy new year 2007.

-Thomas
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post #192 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 05:38 AM
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I 've got one question on this. If the SO chip is doing the processing to 1080/24p anyway wouldn't it be possible (and desirable) to offer also the signals 1080/48i and /or 720/48p. I think these signals are supported from the most of the 720p displays.

Which displays? 50hz for PAL, yes, but 48hz??

larry

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post #193 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radical68 View Post

Will they start making these new generation-players regionfree yet??????

Not sure if you ar referring to SD- or HD-DVDs, so...

The HD-DVD forum hasn't defined or implemented region encoding. HD-DVD players are region free for HD-DVD disks, and all HD-DVD disks are region free. This may change in the future, but the current players (A1, A2, XA1, XA2, etc) will always be region free, so even if disks get region coding, it won't matter to current owners, and currently released disks will always play in any player. Hopefully HD-DVD will avoid region encoding forever.

HD-DVD players honor the SD-DVD region encodings, so your regular DVDs have to be region 1 for A2s bought in North America or region 2 for the E2s bought in Europe. There is no known "hack".

I just use a regular Oppo DVD player for my SD-DVDs, since it is easily made region free, and I "need" it for my DVD-A and SACD disks anyway.

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post #194 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 06:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PooperScooper View Post

Which displays? 50hz for PAL, yes, but 48hz??

larry

I 've got a Marantz VP12 S2. You're right on SD-DVD, 50hz of course.
But for hd-dvd replay they could use also 1080/48i instead of 1080/60i. I thougt this would avoid the pull down judder and helps present displays that don't accept 1080/24p.
I don't really have a clue of these things. Maybe that's complete nonsense. I am only searching for a solution to replay hd-dvd movies without pull down judder with my present display.

Thanks,
Thomas
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post #195 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatebender View Post

Folks keep trying to politely suggest to you that a digital picture of two identical displays beside each other showing the same scene would be meaningless.

Oh Really?

So then explain why someone would pay $400 more for the XA2?
Analog outs?
1080p24?
Is that the justification for $400 more?

So your saying your paying $400 more for few extra "features" rather than a PQ performance?
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post #196 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 07:20 AM
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I believe he is saying you will be seeing the difference of the digital camera used to take the picture and the limitations of your computer monitor and any added JPEG compression. To make it even clearer digital pictures are pretty much a useless indicator of a player's performance. Was that polite enough?

Tom


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post #197 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwclark View Post

I did not know that? To get upscaling of a SD DVD in this player one needs to output the signal via HDMI? Component won't carry an upscaled signal?


That is correct, upscaling is only capable with HDMI, although if your TV has a DVI slot you can get an Oppo 971H, a great DVD player, which uses DVI. The key being a digital interface, since it's done digitally one needs HDMI or a DVI slot. you might be able to use a HDMI to DVI cable with any upscaling player, I have never tried this.

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post #198 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew4HD View Post

Maybe this is a dumb question but I'll ask it anyway....

I have an Optoma H79 HD projector that displays up to 1080i only. Will I benefit from the HD-XA2?

Your H79 does not display 1080i as it is a 1280x720 projector and can only display 720p maximum. It will accept a 1080i signal and process it to display at your projectors native res of 720p. Will a XA2 provide any benefit? If you are talking about HD DVDs then I would say that yes you will get an excellent picture using the 1080i output or maybe even the 720p output depending on how good the scaling in the XA2 is versus the scaler in the H79.

Clark
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post #199 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

Oh Really?

So then explain why someone would pay $400 more for the XA2?
Analog outs?
1080p24?
Is that the justification for $400 more?

So your saying your paying $400 more for few extra "features" rather than a PQ performance?

These are the only differences I can see: Xeon chip?

1080P
HDMI 1.3
12-bit/297 MHz video DAC
5.1 Channel Analog Output
Coaxial Digital Audio Output
RS-232
Upgraded remote, backlit

I have a native Res 1080P TV, Sony KDL-40V2500, so $400 is well worth it. Anything 1080P is going to be more expensive

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
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post #200 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 07:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HPforMe View Post

Exactly right which is why your local theatre shows it at 48 fps.


Wrong.

Why is there so much incorrect information being passed around on this thread? 24fps movies are shown at 48fps to reduce flicker. Read more here.

Either at 24fps, 48fps or 72fps you're going to have that stuttering effect during pans or scrolls. Not "silky smooth" or anything like that. The reason folks want to get away from 60fps reproduction of 24pfs content is that the 2:3 pulldown has a kind of 'alternating' stuttering. A object panned horizontally will have a speedup/slowdown motion as you repeat frames two or three times. 24/48fps is going to stutter, just at a constant pace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Capek View Post


I KNEW someone was going to post this out!

He asked me to put it in laymens terms. IMO laymens terms don't include going into a discussion about the actually refresh rate that is used to display the 24 hertz input. He asked for a description of the real world differences between what he'll see on his 1080p60 display and what he'd see on a display capable of accepting a 1080p24 signal, and those were the terms I put it in.

I appreciate you trying to put things in layman terms. However, the differences between 1080p/24fps displayed vs. 1080p/60fps are going to be marginal (unnoticeable?) to virtually everyone. Stuttering is still going to be there, just at a different rate.
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post #201 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trackman View Post

Component will carry the signal - Hollywood just doesn't permit the manufacturers to enable component upscaling. There are a few that do however (none still for sale new that I know of); I have one: Zenith DV-318.

Will you still be able to upscale sddvd thru componenet if the dvd is a ripped backup copy with protection removed?
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post #202 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stew4HD View Post

Maybe this is a dumb question but I'll ask it anyway....

I have an Optoma H79 HD projector that displays up to 1080i only. Will I benefit from the HD-XA2?

Your H79 actually displays only at 720p, but I am sure you meant that it accepts input signals up to 1080i. The HD-XA2 or A2 will look fantastic on your projector. If you already have an HD DVD player and are asking if you will benefit from upgrading to an XA2, then the answer is probably not, until you change projectors to one with 1080p24 input which also has the ability to display at a 24 frame multiple (in other words 1080p24 in to 1080p60 out isn't what I am talking about). Of course, if you like faster load times and need a bidirectional RS-232 control interface, go for it!

Edit:
Well nevermind, I see I missed an earlier response to your question.

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post #203 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radical68 View Post

Will they start making these new generation-players regionfree yet??????

all HD DVD players play back different region HD DVD discs (HD DVD is region free, despite the labels)

now I cannot attest to the HD DVD player's capability of playing SD region restricted discs.
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post #204 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordong11 View Post

That is correct, upscaling is only capable with HDMI...

Like the other poster, I though upscaling was possible over component if the DVD was not copy-protected, but I may be confusing myself with posts about an XA-1 hack or something.

Can someone give a definitive answer about this? If the HD-XA2 has to be "hacked" to give upscaling-over-component was that hard to do for the other players?
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post #205 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 12:04 PM
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" Quote:
Originally Posted by Fatebender
Folks keep trying to politely suggest to you that a digital picture of two identical displays beside each other showing the same scene would be meaningless.



Oh Really?

So then explain why someone would pay $400 more for the XA2?
Analog outs?
1080p24?
Is that the justification for $400 more?

So your saying your paying $400 more for few extra "features" rather than a PQ performance? "


You keep missing the point. A picture generated on the computer is not going to be able to show you want you want to see and know. Got it?
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post #206 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

Like the other poster, I though upscaling was possible over component if the DVD was not copy-protected, but I may be confusing myself with posts about an XA-1 hack or something.

Can someone give a definitive answer about this? If the HD-XA2 has to be "hacked" to give upscaling-over-component was that hard to do for the other players?

Yes, it's the copy protection that outlaws upconverting a DVD over component. For commercial dvds that don't have copy protection, and backups you make yourself where you rip the copy protection, all of these machines will upconvert DVD over component.

btw, there is no XA-1 hack.
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post #207 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 12:25 PM
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I couldnt pass up **************** price, and cancelled Crutchfield.

TV: Sony Bravia 40" KDL-40v2500 LCD 1080P
Sound: Yamaha YSP-800 w/ powered subwoofer(yes, it rocks!)

I can't wait for LOTR to be realsed!

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
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Panasonic DMP-BD30K
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post #208 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 12:46 PM
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i think i saw this model in a circuit city yesterday. The box clearly stated it had hdmi 1.3. It was on the shelf where the HD-a2 was supposed to be. I went back to check it later in teh day and it was gone. I should have snagged it. I think it was definitely a Circuit City mess up
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post #209 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 12:52 PM
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How weird! I probably would have too...but save money and buy it at ****************. why pay $100 more and tax? plus free dvd's or warranty.


Quote:
Originally Posted by metfoo View Post

i think i saw this model in a circuit city yesterday. The box clearly stated it had hdmi 1.3. It was on the shelf where the HD-a2 was supposed to be. I went back to check it later in teh day and it was gone. I should have snagged it. I think it was definitely a Circuit City mess up


It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #210 of 516 Old 12-31-2006, 01:04 PM
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Quote:




Wrong.

Why is there so much incorrect information being passed around on this thread? 24fps movies are shown at 48fps to reduce flicker. Read more here.

Either at 24fps, 48fps or 72fps you're going to have that stuttering effect during pans or scrolls. Not "silky smooth" or anything like that. The reason folks want to get away from 60fps reproduction of 24pfs content is that the 2:3 pulldown has a kind of 'alternating' stuttering. A object panned horizontally will have a speedup/slowdown motion as you repeat frames two or three times. 24/48fps is going to stutter, just at a constant pace.

Yes that is the case of course. But do you think judder concurrently becomes progressively less when the fps is increased?
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