XA2 Review - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordong11 View Post

I assume you are talking about the HD CoR, if so...

If that is the scene where they she and her husband re walking down the steps outside the ship(on way to replenish the ranks")..., I get no jidder and is very clear, even the fine details, like the make-up on her face are clear. I can tell though my TV, a Sony KDL-40V2500 LCD, 1080P bravia with 8ms response time does help as well, and gives the TV a good test for RT.

added: if that is the scene, itis as close perfect, without being perfect as you can get...i'd say a 9 out of 10, but very very clear none the less.

I do have the SD version as well. let me know if that is or not the scene you speak of

That's exactly the scene I was referring to, thanks for reporting this. I'll probably wait for more reviews to trickle in, but it seems that the XA2 is going to be another big hit with image processing on par with products costing double or triple what the Toshiba goes for.

The other holdup for me in upgrading is software announcements. If we don't start to see some good software announcements I don't see the point in upgrading my HD-DVD hardware.
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post #212 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

Although I do not still have the A2, I was using the A2 until yesterday when the XA2 showed up (returned the A2 same day). Comparing the image quality of the two players using a 1080p Sony projector on a 106" screen, I will agree with those that say the XA2 is superior to the A2, but I would also say one will need a rather large screen to see it. Both players are very close in basic image quality.

The XA2 improves over the A2 in image depth (a bit sharper using the image controls to tweak the picture) and smoothness (the image processor chip, I assume). The difference between 1080i/60 and 1080p/60 is slight, very slight. Since most displays don't even accept a 1080p input, a non-issue for most. For just straight HD DVD playback, the A2 and XA2 are close enough that would not recommend a trade up unless someone just has to have the latest and greatest. I have no regrets on my decision to trade up, but then, I'm one of those people I just referred to .

If the HD DVD player is also doing double duty as the primary DVD player, then my recommendation may be different. I am just now getting into DVD performance, but it is looking like the Silicon Optix chip is doing a very nice job with standard DVD. Upscaling to 1080p on a compatible display elevates DVD palyback noticeably.

BTW, you don't have to presume better build quality of the XA2 over the A2. The XA2 is a tank compared to the A2's Hyundai.

More testing today...

That sounds an awful lot like "There is no need for a 1080P TV, you can't tell the difference unless you are sitting close or use a very large display". I heard this over and over, and was sold. however, once I saw a 1080P display in use, I had a change of heart....and I can notice a difference between my 2006 plasma and Sony 1080P LCD.

The SD DVD's is where a difference would be most noticed, but I don't own an A2. The SD playback in 1080P is unbelievably good on the XA2, and I was using a Samsung DVD-hd960, with 1080P upconversion, and before that an Oppo OPD971H. Each is better than the last at upconvert, clearly.

I'm not saying if you own an A2 to buy an XA2, just that a difference is likely noticeable, especially if own a 1080P TV of any size. Again, I do not own, nor have ever owned an A2...just XA2, Oppo, and Samsung.

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #213 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

That's exactly the scene I was referring to, thanks for reporting this. I'll probably wait for more reviews to trickle in, but it seems that the XA2 is going to be another big hit with image processing on par with products costing double or triple what the Toshiba goes for.

The other holdup for me in upgrading is software announcements. If we don't start to see some good software announcements I don't see the point in upgrading my HD-DVD hardware.

Glad to have helped..if you have any other scenes in mind, lemme know.

PS- I was goona wait too, but just couldn't resist the positive poyential...it is a major purchase. One should wait though till all the talleys are in IMHO if $$$ is an issue. I am very pleased overall, just wish it was cheaper. Zoom button on remote would be nice too. the XA2 does fully deliver to my eye, and exceeds expectations, especially on SD DVD upconversion. Older HD titles, like Excalibur do not compare on PQ to newer titles like CoR. I thought it would be a bit better, but that has nothing to do with the XA2 and certainly not unexpected.

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #214 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by dm145 View Post

Don't bother. The are useless! Think about it. You are taking a picture of a picture, then we are downloading to our pc's. How does this prove anything?

O.K.

I was just trying to give some people an idea of what to expect.

Now that I think of it, a picture of a paused image will not be the best test.

I can tell you the XA2 is fabulous and looks great in 1080p.

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
HD DVD player: Toshiba HD-XA2(2)
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
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post #215 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

O.K.

I was just trying to give some people an idea of what to expect.

Now that I think of it, a picture of a paused image will not be the best test.

I can tell you the XA2 is fabulous and looks great in 1080p.

AGREE

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
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Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
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post #216 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 01:26 PM
 
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That sounds an awful lot like "There is no need for a 1080P TV, you can't tell the difference unless you are sitting close or use a very large display". I heard this over and over, and was sold. however, once I saw a 1080P display in use, I had a change of heart....and I can notice a difference between my 2006 plasma and Sony 1080P LCD.

The SD DVD's is where a difference would be most noticed, but I don't own an A2. The SD playback in 1080P is unbelievably good on the XA2, and I was using a Samsung DVD-hd960, with 1080P upconversion, and before that an Oppo OPD971H. Each is better than the last at upconvert, clearly.

I'm not saying if you own an A2 to buy an XA2, just that a difference is likely noticeable, especially if own a 1080P TV of any size. Again, I do not own, nor have ever owned an A2...just XA2, Oppo, and Samsung.

Do you actually understand what you posted? Read it again before you read the rest of my reply.



You are calling into question comments made by someone that has seen something that you have not. You are saying I don't know what I'm talking about yet you have not seen the player in question.

Would you care to rephrase your comment?

(I'm not being argumentative. I'll be happy to continue to discuss this player with you, but I want you to reexamine your perspective before we go any further.)
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post #217 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 02:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert George View Post

Do you actually understand what you posted? Read it again before you read the rest of my reply.



You are calling into question comments made by someone that has seen something that you have not. You are saying I don't know what I'm talking about yet you have not seen the player in question.

Would you care to rephrase your comment?

(I'm not being argumentative. I'll be happy to continue to discuss this player with you, but I want you to reexamine your perspective before we go any further.)

Oops, no iwas not being argumentative at all...just that that what it sounds like when I first read it. I stated I dont have an A2, so I cant be a good judge, only that if there is a difference, SD DVD's will have an effect greater than HD IMHO, especially since most DVD's are still SD.

I cannot rephrase.....I can say that "experts" who say( not you, nor did I mean you) that 1080P is not needed because you can't see the difference unless up close or on a very large screen, drives me crazy. Why? because I fell for this logic until I investigated it myself. I''m sorry if your statement remineded me of this. was not meant to be a shot at you, just pointing it out and stating my opinion. It's hard to filter out the expert opinions from the so-called expert opinions, and I claim to be neither.

happy new year and no offense intended

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #218 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 02:18 PM
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Can we get some more feedback on it's SD DVD upconversion? My A1 does a great job with SD DVD's but how much better is the XA2 for SD DVD's, if any?
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post #219 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 02:20 PM
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the European XA2 the XE1 is not capable of the following :


1. HD DVD discs containing high definition content at a field rate of 50Hz or a frame rate of 25Hz cannot be played on HD-XE1 without a firmware update. Firmware update is expected in the future.



is this something that is also the case with the XA2 ?
is this going to a "problem" ?

tnx

Tora! Tora! Tora!
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post #220 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 02:39 PM
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This will be my last post, hopefuly.

I will never discourage anyone away from the XA2, it truly is a marvel. I have never owned any HD player before this, but if you own any true 1080P tv I can't see how owning an XA2 wouldn't be a worthwhile upgrade over past models. IMHO it really does kick ass.

I need to hook it into my Hitachi 42HDS69 plasma to see how it performs on 1080i, and compare it to my Oppo and Samsung..until then I have no opinion. The TV/projector being used matters greatly IMO. I can say that I would buy an A2 for it, probably not not the XA2, unless I had the extra $$$ and the 1080i upconversion is significantly better. Although there are useful features on the XA that anyone can benefit from.

I'm going to watch Batman Begins/CoR and enjoy my new toy now.

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #221 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiovision View Post

the European XA2 the XE1 is not capable of the following :


1. HD DVD discs containing high definition content at a field rate of 50Hz or a frame rate of 25Hz cannot be played on HD-XE1 without a firmware update. Firmware update is expected in the future.



is this something that is also the case with the XA2 ?
is this going to a "problem" ?

tnx

Yes the AX2 is the same, no it's not a problem because there aren't any 25/50Hz discs yet.
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post #222 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 02:47 PM
 
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Can we get some more feedback on it's SD DVD upconversion? My A1 does a great job with SD DVD's but how much better is the XA2 for SD DVD's, if any?

I have briefly looked at about a half dozen SD DVDs of varying quality so far. I will note that I am using a 1080p display with the XA2 upconverting SD DVD to 1080p output and viewing on a 106" diagonal screen. Based on that...

I rate the XA2 to be the best performing DVD player I have used. That includes the Denon DVD-3910 and the Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi, as well as the HD-A1 and A2. Of course, I will defer to Kris Deering and Stacey Spears for more technical testing of this player's real performace on 480i DVD, but to my eye, the XA2 is a better DVD player at $999 than either of the equally or more expensive dedicated DVD players I previously mentioned.

SD DVD will never be HD DVD, but we will be living with 480i for some time to come. The basic video performance, as well as the upconversion capability of the XA2 will make watching SD DVD easier now that it looks so poor by comparison to both HD DVD and Blu-ray.
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post #223 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 02:51 PM
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I understand you have to physically toggle a switch in order to get 480i out of the analog outputs and (toggle the other way for 480P, 720P, 1080i and 1080P HDMI).


No 480i HDMI support.

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post #224 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffY View Post

Yes the AX2 is the same, no it's not a problem because there aren't any 25/50Hz discs yet.

tnx for clearing that up.

Tora! Tora! Tora!
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post #225 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I understand you have to physically toggle a switch in order to get 480i out of the HDMI (toggle the other way for 480P, 720P, 1080i and 1080P HDMI).

There is no HDMI 480i support on the XA2, 480i is done through component, composite, or s-video and toggle you must for 480i through those connections. There is no need to toggle if using HDMI or want any output greater than 480i.

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
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Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #226 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 03:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordong11 View Post

There is no HDMI 480i support on the XA2, 480i is done through component, composite, or s-video and toggle you must for 480i through those connections. There is no need to toggle if using HDMI or want any output greater than 480i.

That's odd. There is on the HD-A2, no?

Steve
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post #227 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 03:36 PM
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yes it is weird...but why would one need 480i ouput over HDMI? especially on an expensive HD DVD player. It could be that new chip does not support 480i, thus the toggle. I really have no idea, but its got to be that some new tech does not support 480i, otherwise why the toggle at all?

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
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Panasonic DMP-BD30K
Sony KDL-40XBR4
Elite VSX-92TXH (w/7.1)
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post #228 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 03:40 PM
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I have HDMI from XA2 going into the Onkyo 674. No Optical or Coaxial audio cables are being used.

I played a Dolby TrueHD movie and pressing the "display" button on the remote showed me that I was getting "Dolby TrueHD" and the Audio Output was via a "Digital Bitstream"?

I thought that the only way one could get Dolby TrueHD was with the conversion to LPCM? On the receiver screen it showed "MCH PCM" at "48kHz" but the Toshiba was presenting it as "Dolby TrueHD"

The soundtrack also made a high pitched distortion with the movie soundtrack when I set the "Digital Out SPDIF" setting to "PCM" but this distortion went away when I changed that setting back to "Bitstream"

For the "Digital Out HDMI" setting, I just kept it on "Auto" but the other 2 options are "PCM" and "Downmixed PCM".

Another thing I noticed was that I was only receiving "Front Channel Only PCM" when I changed the audio setting but I can't recall what I did to correct this. I'll go mess around again and try to duplicate that and report back.

My main question is, why is the Toshiba showing Dolby TrueHD via a Digital Bitstream when I thought that only Receivers with HDMI 1.3 could actually process a TrueHD Bitstream signal and those aren't out yet?
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post #229 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 03:48 PM
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post #230 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by bferr1 View Post

J y E 4Ever, see my reply here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9379040

Thank You. Let me go and read.
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post #231 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

My wife laughs at the whole home theater thing...equipment and all. She has no idea what any of my gear has ever cost, in fact she's never asked, though I did tell her up front that my Qualia PJ was a bit more pricey than the usual gear and she might notice in the checking acct!

may i ask what you do for a living? let me guess a dentist/orthodontist?
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post #232 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 04:10 PM
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You have to respect Toshiba, and HD DVD as a format, the 1st gen player was like a trial run to iron out all the kinks. The new players, as I've heard are completely overperforming when compared to blu ray players. I can't wait to get my new next gen toshiba HD DVD player.
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post #233 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glen Mulder View Post

You have to respect Toshiba, and HD DVD as a format, the 1st gen player was like a trial run to iron out all the kinks. The new players, as I've heard are completely overperforming when compared to blu ray players. I can't wait to get my new next gen toshiba HD DVD player.

Well, that's not true. Blu Ray players are essentially free of HDMI and audio issues all together. HD DVD is still buggy...my HD-A2 is problematic while my HDA1 had 0 problems.

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post #234 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordong11 View Post

yes it is weird...but why would one need 480i ouput over HDMI? especially on an expensive HD DVD player. It could be that new chip does not support 480i, thus the toggle. I really have no idea, but its got to be that some new tech does not support 480i, otherwise why the toggle at all?

In general, if you have an outboard video processor (say with the Reon's big brother, Realta) you would want to send SD-DVD content to it at 480i so it can do all of the deinterlacing and scaling. As another example I've got an iScan HD+ that will take 480i over HDMI/DVI.

It may prove that the Reon in the XA2 does as good a job as an outboard processor so sending it 1080p is just as good. But it may not.

Steve
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post #235 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Well, that's not true. Blu Ray players are essentially free of HDMI and audio issues all together. HD DVD is still buggy...my HD-A2 is problematic while my HDA1 had 0 problems.

bland,

Do any of the blu-ray players have TrueHD capabilities? If not I think that would be a audio issue. I have to think that some have had audio problems maybe not as many as with the Toshiba's though. The short time I had my A2 I had no audio issues at all.

Bill

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post #236 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

bland,

Do any of the blu-ray players have TrueHD capabilities? If not I think that would be a audio issue. I have to think that some have had audio problems maybe not as many as with the Toshiba's though. The short time I had my A2 I had no audio issues at all.

Bill

The PS3 decodes 7.1 TrueHD. This argument does hold in the sense that no standalone Blu-Ray players currently decode TrueHD.

It's also worth noting that only one (I think only one) BD disc has a TrueHD track. Many BD discs have uncompressed PCM tracks, and every BD player handles multichannel PCM. Uncompressed PCM is to Blu-Ray as what TrueHD is to HD DVD.

Thebland's audio problem is that he bought a grossly overpriced audio processor that doesn't accept multichannel PCM via its HDMI inputs.
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post #237 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spa View Post

In general, if you have an outboard video processor (say with the Reon's big brother, Realta) you would want to send SD-DVD content to it at 480i so it can do all of the deinterlacing and scaling. As another example I've got an iScan HD+ that will take 480i over HDMI/DVI.

It may prove that the Reon in the XA2 does as good a job as an outboard processor so sending it 1080p is just as good. But it may not.

Very interesting, and I can see that...thanks. No wonder as a light bulb goes off in my head.

Added: BTW, I would be interested in seeing how thois works with the XA2. I currently watching LOTR Felowship and was just thinking if I would even buy HD title when it comes out. The XA2 does such a great job in 1080P upconversion, I'm having hard time imagining what it would be like in HD. Ofcourse I would buy the HD version, but I think that speaks to the quality of this player. A novice would not know it's not HD, if I told him/her it was. honestly, brings tears to my eyes its so good.

It's all about 1080P/24 & HD audio
Toshiba HD-XA2
Panasonic DMP-BD30K
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post #238 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I have briefly looked at about a half dozen SD DVDs of varying quality so far. I will note that I am using a 1080p display with the XA2 upconverting SD DVD to 1080p output and viewing on a 106" diagonal screen. Based on that...

I rate the XA2 to be the best performing DVD player I have used. That includes the Denon DVD-3910 and the Pioneer Elite DV-59AVi, as well as the HD-A1 and A2. Of course, I will defer to Kris Deering and Stacey Spears for more technical testing of this player's real performace on 480i DVD, but to my eye, the XA2 is a better DVD player at $999 than either of the equally or more expensive dedicated DVD players I previously mentioned.

SD DVD will never be HD DVD, but we will be living with 480i for some time to come. The basic video performance, as well as the upconversion capability of the XA2 will make watching SD DVD easier now that it looks so poor by comparison to both HD DVD and Blu-ray.

I've compared it to my Arcam FMJ unit and picture wise... it's spot on. Sound wise... something about the Arcam is better. CD playback there is no contest, the Arcam blows it away. Not that it matters, because I use my new Rega for CD playback.
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post #239 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 05:19 PM
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BTW, I would be interested in seeing how thois works with the XA2. I currently watching LOTR Felowship and was just thinking if I would even buy HD title when it comes out. The XA2 does such a great job in 1080P upconversion, I'm having hard time imagining what it would be like in HD. Ofcourse I would buy the HD version, but I think that speaks to the quality of this player. A novice would not know it's not HD, if I told him/her it was. honestly, brings tears to my eyes its so good.

I do see a nice bump in PQ from the HD-A2, but I can tell you, SD DVDs really look great when watched over my Panasonic RP91 to iScan HD+. I expected more of an improvement with HD DVD than I got.

My goal is simply to get the same upscaling performance out of the HD DVD player so I don't need a separate DVD player. Unfortunately the fast-forward and rewind are really quirky on the HD-A2, and it sounds like it hasn't improved on the HD-XA2. I find it quite annoying.

Steve
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post #240 of 369 Old 01-06-2007, 05:21 PM
 
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Uncompressed PCM is to Blu-Ray as what TrueHD is to HD DVD.

This statement is true on so many levels.
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