Dual Format Disc Player Announced - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rwestley View Post

Curlyjive, thanks for the great post.


Thanks, as long as there was no sarcasm in there

Something else to consider about the PS3....I wonder what Sony is going to be thinking about this combo player? You have to imagine it may have them worried. Even IF BD and HD DVD co-exist, is that enough to pay the kinds of profits that Sony was looking for? If BD does not become the clar winner, can the PS3 survive as a GAMMING machine?

Think about it this way, though most gaming machines are sond at a loss, the PS3 is sold at a greater loss due to its BD drive. If both formats survive (or HD DVD "wins") then the playstation loses that advantage. How much wiggle room would sony then have to sell the Ps3 for less money so that they can sell enough of them to keep it profitable for game companies to develop for it?! Considering the lead Xbox360 has on next-gen games Sony would have a hard time getting people to spend $500-$600 for a PS3 if BD flops or has to share the market with HD DVD. (keep in mind, I just bought a PS3)

So, to bring it back, how will sony try to fight back against a combo player? Or do they think that a combo player will encourage more people to buy one and then they will try to hold onto the studios they have as BD exlusives and choke HD DVD that way?
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post #182 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:09 PM
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Studio market share says otherwise:

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/studio/

Your post implies that Blu-ray had 85-90% of studio support and HD-DVD had 10-15%. Looking at box office receipts across the past three years, studios supporting HD-DVD average ~50%, while Blu-ray studios average 80-85%.

DVD sales numbers are a bit different than box office receipts, though.
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post #183 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:11 PM
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Wouldn't Sony have to officially license the LG player as a BD player for them to even sell it? Have they acquired this license from Sony? I have a hard time believing that Sony would do that.
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post #184 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

I think we all need to stop and think about the gravity of this!

If LG is truly going to put out a combo player, then it has the potential to completely reframe the argument. Think about going into BB or CC when this player is available. IF you have customers interested in an HD disc player (of either format) but are confused or unsure, and you want to make a sale (stores do like to sell things) then you will say "hey there is a player that does both!" IF it ends up being in between the HD DVD and BD players in price....guess what people will buy?


Now you have erased the format issue from peoples minds. They will buy the titles that appeal to them AND the ones that provide the best PQ and AQ. So if HD DVD doe a better job here, they can put BD away. Same works the other way. IF both formats still have some exclusive studios and are of equal quality and near in price, BOTH might survive.

It is SENSELESS for those of us who are interested in HD content to sit here and whine over who's side this benefits. If it mens more mainstrean adoption of either or both format, that means more titles and cheaper prices for ALL OF US.

I am so sick of the format fanboys on both sides!!! Can't you see that this could be the begining of a breaking point for HD content that would mean bennefits for all of us. I guess it's esy for me to say that...I own an XA1 and a PS3....so even without a combo player, I am still set. But I guess that kind of objectivity only comes when you get beyond arguing over whos format is better. That is where a combo player gets us....to a point where the format itself is irrelevent and HD content is ALL that matters!

You are right but we are SOOOOOO far away (at least a year) from having a dual player priced between HD DVD and Blu Ray that all this dual format player does is prolong the war. J6P isn't buying until there is a clear winner or he can get a player for $200-$300.
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post #185 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:12 PM
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Wouldn't Sony have to officially license the LG player as a BD player for them to even sell it? Have they acquired this license from Sony? I have a hard time believing that Sony would do that.

Yes, they have.

There is nothing in the Blu-ray license that prevents a manufacturer from creating and selling a combo player.
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post #186 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:20 PM
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My best "guesstimate" (which is all we're all doing now), is that we are just looking at another DVD+R vs DVD-R issue and that this will all play out the same way. Almost all DVD Readers and Writers for PC today are "multi format"; (DVD+R, DVD-R, DVD+RW, DVD-RW) the same is true for most "stand alone" home DVD players; most consumers today don't even know about the various DVD formats because it almost never matter, they almost always work. From time to time you will find a stand alone player that will only play +R or only -R the same is true for some old PC-based drives; only then does the consumer realize that there's a difference and then they either make sure to purchase the type of disk that that drive supports, or they ditch the old drive and buy another multi format drive. (If the consumer has a multi-format stand alone player, and a multi-format PC DVD drive, and they discover that their standalone player in their bedroom only supports DVD+R, they'll probably buy some DVD+Rs and burn movies in that format.

I don't see this situation being that much different. IF more manufactures jump on the multi format player bandwagon and they can get the prices down; J6P will be all over the multi format stand-alone player. If Joe Six Pack happens to have a laptop or XBOX 360 that they later find out only supports "HD-DVD", he'll take the time to figure out what that means, and will either not watch DVDs from that laptop or the 360 DVD player, he'll buy HD-DVDs only, or he'll just buy a new dual-format drive for his laptop/360 and chuck the old one in the trash. Same scenario if Joe Six Pack unwittingly buys his stand-alone Dual Format player (he doesn't even know it's dual format, it's just a "High Def CD Movie Player" to him; it's all they sell) and later finds out that his PS3 doesn't play some of his movies. He investigates why this could be (calls Sony all pissed off), finds out that he can only play "Blue Ray HD CD Movies" on his PS3 and he either makes the extra effort in the future to look for and buy Blue Ray movies only, or he ONLY plays games on his game console (because it's not dual-format) and plays movies on his stand-alone player that "just works"... (Or he buys the updated version of the PS3 that includes the Dual-format Player) (PS3.1 gets released after the PS3 gets mod chipped, people start running Linux on it, and the games are downloadable and burnable off of the internet; while Sony is releasing the PS3 anyway for the updated DRM, they release a dual format player. (With slighly reduced image quality/features for HD DVD to differentiate their superior BluRay disks from the competition.) (Same scenario completely feasible for 360.)

The studios don't care (Except Sony) which format their disk is released in, they WILL go where the $$ is and no one really knows where that is; it may be BluRay, it may be HD-DVD, it may be releasing for BOTH (with only one coding for both releases to reduce costs.) (Or the studios DO care and stay in their various camps; it doesn't matter too much to the average consumer except in the scenarios above, where it only matters a little bit...) The smartest thing that Sony could do would be to start investing HEAVILY in obtaining the best image and audio quality possible, and in providing lots of additional, worth-while features. They need to PROVE that they are providing more on their 50GB dual layer disks, than HD-DVDs can provide on their 30 GB dual layer disks. (They need to fill the disk, but not by just using ineffecient codecs (MPEG2); they need to find a way to fill the entire 50 GB disk with things that people want to establish themselves as the "high-end" HD DVD format.)

Like someone else said "typical HD movies get released on HD-DVD media; special editions of the movies get released on BluRay because they need the additional space" (Load the BluRay disks up with Extras and Interactive features, ratchet the bit rate way up with VC1 encoding, include a whole bunch of different high-quality audio options; cater to the Audiophile/Videophile that has more money, can see/hear the difference (or thinks they can), and that just wants these special versions for bragging rights. Heck if the studios start recording movies with high quality very high def cameras instead of film-based cameras; we will start having TRUE 30 or maybe even 60FPS movies; there would be NO JUTTER when coupled with an appropriate monitor; if you literally have 30 DIFFERENT or 60 DIFFERENT frames in the video per second the movies will take up more space, and there will actually be more data there, so even the compressed video will be bigger.
This should make everyone happy, including Sony, who will have a higher-priced disk format, they'll have their pride still intact (their format after all will be finally prove that it is superior and all the audio/video philes will laud it's capabilities), and the average consumer will have high quality, high definition disks that provides them with image and audio quality that they appreciate, but not more than they appreciate; the difference in $$ goes back into their pockets.

IF we continue to see more High Def Dual Format players from many manufactures and we can get the price down, it is good for the consumer; it's good for everyone. The High Def DVD market probably needs two different classes of product anyway. (Basic HD DVD for the average consumer, and a high-end newest everything format for the A/V fan.) (Heck Intel realized the benefit of having two classes of processors when they released the P2, they even artifically created their low-end brand by taking the P2s off of the assembly line and cutting half of the cache off with a laser (and took a hit or made 0 profit on them to do it); the current situation could automatically make HD-DVD a two class system; I don't think we could dream of a better situation. (Unless you're a format fanatic...)

Winners: J6P (no confusion), BluRay(BluRay can live, BluRay is still useful on PS3, make Sony a bunch of $$ and prove it's statistical superiority (whether they do it is up to them)), HD DVD (HD DVD survives the format war and can claim victory as they greatly outsell BluRay because of decreased costs (the actual production costs don't even matter; it's in both camp's best interests to keep HD DVD cheaper than BluRay to create the two class system)), The AV Enthusiast now that J6p has every reason to buy HighDef content there is an explosion in which content is available in high def; EVERYTHING is in HighDef (even, wheel of fortune seasons, OK?); and now that the "format war is over" a whole new war launches (like in audio today); the competition to produce the best image and audio quality possible),.... I could go on, and spin off some crazy tangent about how the biggest change here isn't even HD TV or HD DVD, it's changing from "analog TV" to "digital TV"/"Analogue video content" to "digital video content" and how this is a MUCH bigger deal and that it has the ability to produce MUCH more good than this stupid HD DVD format war, but I bought this crystal ball from Walmart, so odds are I'll be so far off I'm better to just stop typing now.... (Plus holy moly; I wrote wAAAAY too much already...)


(This was fun!)
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post #187 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theswami View Post

You are right but we are SOOOOOO far away (at least a year) from having a dual player priced between HD DVD and Blu Ray that all this dual format player does is prolong the war. J6P isn't buying until there is a clear winner or he can get a player for $200-$300.


I'm not so sure we are far off. HD DVD is $500, blu ray is between $800-$1500. (leaving out the PS3) So take the high and low end and that gives you ALOT of room. If the price is between $800 and $1000 then they can compete, especially since you are getting MORE.

What WILL need to happen is another CE or two releasing a dual format player. LG is not the brand most people would chose, and the competition between dual format players would force prices down.
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post #188 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:33 PM
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I think the people who say consumers will buy single format players because they cost less miss the point of who will be buying HD machines for the foreseeable future: People who want HD. They aren't going to buy one format when they know the movie they want to see may come out on the other only.

People looking solely at price will buy less expensive DVD players.
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post #189 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Cuhulin View Post

I think the people who say consumers will buy single format players because they cost less miss the point of who will be buying HD machines for the foreseeable future: People who want HD. They aren't going to buy one format when they know the movie they want to see may come out on the other only.

People looking solely at price will buy less expensive DVD players.

Wow that is one heck fo a first post, and I have to say that I agree with you completely and have said on a few occasions that the people continually referring to J6P as a clueless ignorant consumer is sadfully mistaken in the new HD era. In the past it was a legitimate claim as there was not nearly as much involved; however in todays world people are increasingly more informed.
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post #190 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:40 PM
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Initially it may be successful if the price is below the COMBINED price of a BD and HDDVD player. If it's cheaper than buying one of each, those of us currently with neither and on the fence about format to choose may purchase the unit as it would be cheaper than 2 seperate units (which I've considered).

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post #191 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:44 PM
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Every time I read some refering to "joe six pack" or now J6P I have to chuckle to myself at how ridiculous that sounds. Especially that these J6P people will be the deciding factor on the new HiDef disc format. Is this the same joe six pack that probably owns a $50 DVD player from Walmart? The same guy who doesnt even own an HDTV and if he just got one probably doesnt even have Hi Def programming set up? High Deffinition itself is not even mainstream enough to have reached the mass of joe six packs out there. The new format is meant for people who are already on the cutting edge and only want the best picture and sound quality. There are tons of home theaters and HDTVs out there and the owners are waiting for something that makes sense before moving beyond the DVD format to something new.
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post #192 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:45 PM
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Wow... Just realized how many different things in my post could be taken the wrong way and result in fanboys on either side flaming me; so this post is a summary of my post above.

My "Crystal Ball" says:

The mass availability of multi-format (HDDVD+BluRay) players ultimately marks the end of the war. If everyone plays their cards right, this should result in completely transparent high-definition optical disk experience for "Joe Six Pack", and should create a two class system for high definition optical disks.

Most "typical" releases are made for HD-DVDs and marketed with features and quality that is still just as incredible as we have all come to appreciate (HD DVD today and probably a little better); Joe Six Pack buys this version because it is the cheapest.

Special Editions/"BluEditions" of many movies are made available for a higher price point, but include the absolute BEST Audio and Video quality available and even more extras than HD DVD; catering to the A/V Fanatic or Wannabe.

Some very long movies may release only in BluEdition to maintain quality.
Entire Trilogies or Movies + Sequel could be included on one BluEdition Disk, too. Or Entire Seasons of Animated TV Series in Standard/Reduced Def...

Eventually almost all studios switch to being "format independent" and release their "regular" release of their movies to HD DVD, and the "Special Editions" on BluRay. (Maximizing profit twice; in the lower profit-margin HD DVDs they make it in volume, in the higher profit-margin BluDisks they make it on profit itself.)

Anytime Joe Six Pack encounters a "legacy" or "single-format playing High Definition Optical" player, he makes a decision: just buy movies in that format, trash it and get a dual format replacement, don't play any movies on that device. (in the case of a game console supporting only the "expensive" format)...


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post #193 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

Every time I read some refering to "joe six pack" or now J6P I have to chuckle to myself at how ridiculous that sounds. Especially that these J6P people will be the deciding factor on the new HiDef disc format. Is this the same joe six pack that probably owns a $50 DVD player from Walmart? The same guy who doesnt even own an HDTV and if he just got one probably doesnt even have Hi Def programming set up? High Deffinition itself is not even mainstream enough to have reached the mass of joe six packs out there. The new format is meant for people who are already on the cutting edge and only want the best picture and sound quality. There are tons of home theaters and HDTVs out there and the owners are waiting for something that makes sense before moving beyond the DVD format to something new.

Yeah. J6P won't decide anything. It will be forced upon him/her by virtue of where the technology is going. Just as dvd started out as a niche and players were expensive there is now coming as will be announced at CES much lower price points for HD DVD and blu ray and more unified players. The technology will eventually overtake J6P. It will take a while just as we see just recently dvd overtaking VHS but it will happen whether he/she likes it or not.
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post #194 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 02:58 PM
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"I think the people who say consumers will buy single format players because they cost less miss the point of who will be buying HD machines for the foreseeable future: People who want HD."

Disagree with this statement; HD TV is mandated by the FCC, it's the first consumer electronic device to ever basically be mandated to succeed by law. (the first one I know of; how's that?); It's becoming much harder to buy a TV in any size or form factor that is NOT at least digital/edtv. If the FCC sticks to their guns and stops broadcasting analog TV at the end of 2008 and everyone has to buy set-top boxes; they'll switch to Digital TV in a hurry (and infact already are; anyone have the stats? 248% increase in HD TV purchases in 2006 over 2005 is what I remember....)

As so many people have said; once you see HDTV, you do not want to go back. Granted many low-quality TVs probably won't show a HUGE difference from DVD to HD DVD; the majority of them will. (And just like MS has stopped making games for the XBOX to push XBOX 360 adoption, why wouldn't the studios stop releasing new movies on regular DVD if they thought that they could get away with it and thought that it would push adoption of high definition DVDs (where they can make more $$??)

If we can get to a point where HD DVD vs BluRay doesn't really matter and we can get everyone marketing HD Optical Disks together with one voice proclaiming that you can't LIVE WITHOUT HD DVD" (just re-class BluRay as "HD DVD Special Edition" or something to avoid confusion) and that your wasting your investment in your new HDTV if you are watching REGULAR DVDs, people will clammer all over themselves to get them. (Just like they adopted REGULAR DVD Players faster than any other consumer electronics device in history (I'm sure someone can think of something else that was adopted faster, but it was still CRAZY to see grandmas buying DVD players when they didn't even really know what one was!)).

Joe Six Pack wants HD, he just doesn't know it yet; he WILL be the main consumer of HD Optical Disks.


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post #195 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 03:02 PM
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Folks this is HUGE! The AVS Forums will now need a third forum for the "Dual Format HD/BD DVD Players/Software!!!

This Forum will grow rapidly as j6p and friends take control of the entire HD/BD DVD forums and the threads explode.

Sit back now and watch as this unfolds....remember where you heard it first.
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post #196 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macros73 View Post

Um, who gives a flying leap if it helps HD-DVD? I'm in this to watch high-quality movies. Some of those movies are in BD format. I don't want to buy a BD player and have two players sitting around. *I*, the consumer, AKA the one who spends the money to buy a product, want a dual-format player for my convenience.

I don't care what's good for BD or HD-DVD. I care about what's good for ME as a movie watcher.

Partisanship helps none of us. With a dual-format player, I will be free to purchase the best version of any movie made available in 1080p. (Though, in the case of some studios, "best" version may mean "only" version.)

Bingo!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuhulin View Post

I think the people who say consumers will buy single format players because they cost less miss the point of who will be buying HD machines for the foreseeable future: People who want HD. They aren't going to buy one format when they know the movie they want to see may come out on the other only.

Bingo again!!

You guys get it. Most people aren't going to knowingly buy a player that can't play all the movies.

Imagine going into a store and there are three types of TV's. One has great picture and sound but can't play any CBS broadcasts. Another has great picture and sound but can't play any NBC or ESPN broadcasts. The third type costs a little more but can play all networks. Which one would most people buy? Its obvious isn't it? We are talking about essentially the same thing here.

One more thing, just so I can get it off my chest. The most irritating term on this forum is "J6P". This is an ignorant derogatory term, implying that anyone who doesn't share our passion for AV is a beer guzzling dummy with limited funds. I have no respect for the elitists who use the term, it reflects badly on you. Shame on you. Give your heads a shake and lets just talk AV. If you want a name for non enthusiasts, call them nonavophiles or something like that.

There, I said it, its off my chest, and I'll stay on topic from now on.

Cheers

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post #197 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kabillyhop View Post

One more thing, just so I can get it off my chest. The most irritating term on this forum is "J6P". This is an ignorant derogatory term, implying that anyone who doesn't share our passion for AV is a beer guzzling dummy with limited funds. I have no respect for the elitists who use the term, it reflects badly on you. Shame on you. Give your heads a shake and lets just talk AV. If you want a name for non enthusiasts, call them nonavophiles or something like that.

How about calling them people who are a lot smarter with their money? Many of us here have purchased 1st gen players and high prices. Not a really good financial decision. Ive used the term myself but meant nothing derogatory about it. There is nothing dumb about being frugal.
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post #198 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 03:27 PM
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So who here is waiting for the announcement that Warner's dual format disc is NOT compatible with LG's dual format player?

"Unfortunately, the player is designed to detect what format the disc is in. Since the Warner disc is in both formats, the player gets confused and immediately catches fire!"

(Just wait... it'll happen!)
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post #199 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 03:33 PM
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I just cant wait till these players are mainstream.....then the forum can be cleaned up of about 90 percent of threads BD vs HD DVD.....

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post #200 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 03:36 PM
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I think dmzguy (aka Adam) is absolutely correct. With dual format players, everyone wins.

The studios just want to sell DVDs so they will use whichever format is the cheapest for any given movie. Some movies don't have much more than sitcom graphics and audio (Little Miss SunShine), so they don't need the extra space available on Blu-ray. For sequels on a single disk and high graphic content material (Pear Harbor), there would be an advantage to using the Blu-ray format. The studios will be able to do whatever makes sense for each release without worrying about not being able to sell DVDs to one camp or the other.

Sony wins since Blu-ray never dies. Toshiba (and Microsoft) win since HD-DVD never dies. The consumer wins since all he (she) wants to do is buy HD content without worrying about whether it will play on the player. The total market will explode since people can get off the sidelines and buy something without making a big $ mistake.

There were some interesting statistics in the Wall Street Journal today (quoting Tom Adams of Adams Media Research in Carmel, Calif.): About 695,000 consumers own either the HD-DVD player or the Blu-ray. (All of them particpate on this forum as far as I can tell.) Only about 25,000 have purchased stand-alone Blu-ray players. Another 400,000 have Blu-ray because they bought the PS3. Meanwhile, about 120,000 or so have a stand-alone HD-DVD player while about 150,000 have an HD-DVD upgrade kit for their Xbox 360 consoles.

If you were Sony, why not license the technology for the (possibly modest - or not) amount of profit made from a Sony player and not worry about who makes the player? They have already lost about 120,000 sales to HD-DVD (vs. 25,000 standalone players with the Blu-ray format) so they must be seeing the opportunity to be gained from pleasing all sides. Right now, gamers drive Blu-ray sales. But, is that the largest market? I don't think so and I doubt if Sony thinks so either.

I think dual format players will be a huge hit and will be good for everyone. Especially for me.
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post #201 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

I'm not so sure we are far off. HD DVD is $500, blu ray is between $800-$1500. (leaving out the PS3) So take the high and low end and that gives you ALOT of room. If the price is between $800 and $1000 then they can compete, especially since you are getting MORE.

What WILL need to happen is another CE or two releasing a dual format player. LG is not the brand most people would chose, and the competition between dual format players would force prices down.

Update, you can get the Samsung player for $600 so the bottom end of your range should start there.

If LG is delivering more then why would they do it at a price less than Blu Ray. The only logic for a price lower than Blu Ray palyers is 1) to steal share from the Blu Ray camp, 2) kill the Blu Ray camp, or 3) the manufacturing prices are so low that you can do 1 and 2. It is not often that you get a product seen as delivering more for a price lower than a competitor.

In order for prices of the dual to fall, the component prices have to fall or competition has to heat up. IMO, people are getting pretty excited about hardware that has yet to be released without a target price. Add to that the fact that both HD DVD and Blu Ray players are getting cheaper by the day.

Anyway, I shold have used average prices in my post. I have no doubt that LG can deliver a dual player for less than a high end Blu Ray player. IMO, I just can't imagine that LG would have a dual player that can compete on price with an average HD DVD or Blu Ray player for a while (more than 18 months - 2 years). I'm certain they will not deliver a dual player within J6P's price range for years. Heck the player itself is almost a year away.

I contend that we are still far away from having a well priced dual player.

Someone should start a poll..How many AVSers would buy a dual player made by LG priced at $1000.
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post #202 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 03:47 PM
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Originally Posted by HeyU View Post

There were some interesting statistics in the Wall Street Journal today (quoting Tom Adams of Adams Media Research in Carmel, Calif.): About 695,000 consumers own either the HD-DVD player or the Blu-ray. (All of them particpate on this forum as far as I can tell.) Only about 25,000 have purchased stand-alone Blu-ray players. Another 400,000 have Blu-ray because they bought the PS3. Meanwhile, about 120,000 or so have a stand-alone HD-DVD player while about 150,000 have an HD-DVD upgrade kit for their Xbox 360 consoles.


I find it hard to believe that there has been only 25,000 BluRay players sold. If that is true then I am shocked and Sony must have to be sweating bullets. 25,000 seems like nothing especially with so many different players out there.

If the multi format player does happen then I am in. This is exciting news most deffinately.
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post #203 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Joe Linn View Post

You'll note that I said "especially as prices fall to the $200-$300 range." At that point, the PS3 would no longer be the cheapest player.

The situations are not different at all. The PS2 and PS3 are both designed as game machines and they also function as a disk player. The PS3 doesn't even have IR capabilities, so it can't be programed on a universal remote. Average folks who want a disc player aren't going to buy a $600 game machine and fiddle with a joystick and a strange interface when they can go out and buy a stand-alone player for $200-$300.

Joe

That's true...but you're talking about something that hasn't happened yet and probably won't for some time (prices of standalones at $200). By that time, the PS3 most likely will have had a price cut and a number of units will have already been introduced into homes as either a movie player or gaming machine.

As for the differences between the PS2 and PS3, when the PS2 came out, there wasn't another format that was competing with it on the same level. There weren't millions of people switching to a new "type of TV" (like HD TVs) that people were looking to watch content on. It also wasn't priced a lot lower than competing DVD players like the PS3 is with Blu-ray players. So, IMO, there's a difference. The PS3 may not be a huge factor, but I don't think it's in the same position as the PS2.
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post #204 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 04:02 PM
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Combo players + combo discs = HD Disc Format War is TOAST!!!

If you want a war, your going to have to battle over storage.

Enjoy!

"I wonder if any of the releases had slipcovers though."
"Are these comfirmed to have slipcovers?"
"They look nice in those slips."
"This slipcover looks too good to pass up."
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post #205 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by theswami View Post

Update, you can get the Samsung player for $600 so the bottom end of your range should start there.


No. The 2nd Gen Samsung is $799 MSRP, that is not $599 or $600. So it's between $800 and $1500. Quit being ignorant about things. I'm so sick of all you fanbabies. All you do is spout FUD and twist truths. If the LG is priced at $799 and so is the Samsung, chances are the LG will street for around $600 to $700.

Quoting non-MSRP is just ignorant. You're ignoring the FACTS.

The NEC Dual Format production costs nearly the same as BD. Throw in that the player will be made in Korea... and you get lower production costs.

The player could go for $600 or so MSRP. I seriously doubt it will, but technically they could do that. $999 is a good bet.

I believe there are TWO other dual formats to be released in 2007, but I don't know who they are. NAD tells me they have a prototype, so perhaps they're one of them (Guess $1500 for that bad boy).
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post #206 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmzguy View Post

HD TV is mandated by the FCC

I think you're confusing "digital" OTA broadcasting with HDTV. Not the same. The FCC mandate will only force folks to buy an STB to use with their analog TV's. This conversion does not mean everyone will be high-def.
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post #207 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TommyV View Post

I find it hard to believe that there has been only 25,000 BluRay players sold. If that is true then I am shocked and Sony must have to be sweating bullets. 25,000 seems like nothing especially with so many different players out there.

If the multi format player does happen then I am in. This is exciting news most deffinately.

Those numbers are actually pretty accurate and don't count all of December.
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post #208 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by joffer View Post

now for the big question. which forum will the User's Thread go in?


LOL LOL LOL LOL. Glad to see a non offending to either camp, very laughable but great point.

It's a relief from all the venom flying.
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post #209 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by tsd2005 View Post

Those numbers are actually pretty accurate and don't count all of December.

Yes they are accurate. That's why blu ray was heading the way of betamax until the PS3 created the perception and base of interest even though it appears the vast majority of people are using their PS3 for games. It's important for the studios to have a possibility or potential for growth and that's what the PS3 does.
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post #210 of 225 Old 01-04-2007, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsd2005 View Post

No. The 2nd Gen Samsung is $799 MSRP, that is not $599 or $600. So it's between $800 and $1500. Quit being ignorant about things. I'm so sick of all you fanbabies. All you do is spout FUD and twist truths. If the LG is priced at $799 and so is the Samsung, chances are the LG will street for around $600 to $700.

Quoting non-MSRP is just ignorant. You're ignoring the FACTS.

The NEC Dual Format production costs nearly the same as BD. Throw in that the player will be made in Korea... and you get lower production costs.

The player could go for $600 or so MSRP. I seriously doubt it will, but technically they could do that. $999 is a good bet.

I believe there are TWO other dual formats to be released in 2007, but I don't know who they are. NAD tells me they have a prototype, so perhaps they're one of them (Guess $1500 for that bad boy).

Yes. And I wouldn't be surprised it comes at $999 as well. Samsung has announced that their 2nd gen player will be 20% less than the retail price of the 1st gen. Right now Sammy players are $799. So is it 20% of that or 20% of the original price $999? CES we'll know for sure.
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