A2/XA2 firmware upgrade 1.2/1.3 [ remove disc first!] - Page 4 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #91 of 1198 Old 01-19-2007, 08:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
deez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sacramento, Ca.
Posts: 2,271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by deez View Post

Robert- Do you know when Toshiba will add a bit rate counter for the A2/XA2, like the BD players have??


Robert did you see this question?

Thanks

XBOX Gamertag:deezusmusic
deez is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #92 of 1198 Old 01-19-2007, 08:19 PM
Senior Member
 
drtoronto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 270
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
all i have to say is they better fix this audio problem soon or my a2 is going on the bay and ill stick with blu ray, i cant stand crap that is very expensive and does not work,~~~!!!!
drtoronto is offline  
post #93 of 1198 Old 01-19-2007, 08:20 PM
 
Vindii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 274
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

It is a problem with the A2. I tried it with two Denon receivers(2807 and 3806) with the same results. For some reason the setting for the optical output will affect the PCM output on HDMI and it will be either 48khz of 96 khz depending on the optical out setting. The A1 always output 96Khz pcm over HDMI.

I have mine hooked up to a 3806 with HDMI and it sounds great. Set the optical to bitstream and forget about it. I would hardly call this a problem.
Vindii is offline  
post #94 of 1198 Old 01-19-2007, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
 
DTV TiVo Dealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scarsdale, NY
Posts: 4,878
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
deez, sorry I did not say so, but I also included your excellent question with my last email to Toshiba. I will post any information I get next week.

-Robert
DTV TiVo Dealer is offline  
post #95 of 1198 Old 01-19-2007, 08:52 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Robert D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
It would be nice if a HD DVD disc would start up where one left off. No deal killer but Toshiba can't seem to put that feature into any player.
Robert D is offline  
post #96 of 1198 Old 01-19-2007, 09:05 PM
AVS Special Member
 
deez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sacramento, Ca.
Posts: 2,271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Ty Robert This would be a nice feature. It would be nice if the display was in the top corners like the PS3 so it did not interfere with the movie.

Thank You

XBOX Gamertag:deezusmusic
deez is offline  
post #97 of 1198 Old 01-19-2007, 09:25 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 20,897
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 313 Post(s)
Liked: 609
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindii View Post

I have mine hooked up to a 3806 with HDMI and it sounds great. Set the optical to bitstream and forget about it. I would hardly call this a problem.

Yes it does sound great. I have mine set so it outputs 48Khz which sounds better than the setting that makes it output 96Khz. But on the A1 when it output 96Khz it sounds excellent like the A2 does at 48Khz output. Anyway I haven't touched the settings in over a month

39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
LED DLP
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme

aaronwt is offline  
post #98 of 1198 Old 01-19-2007, 11:58 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
jackox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: France
Posts: 633
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi Robert !

I would like to ask you (it might be already said).
When the XA2 will have 24p output does this mean that the decoder will feed up the Reon with 24psf then desenterlace to 24p frame by frame, or is it likewise the G1 a typical 1080i video stream that the Reon will desenterlace to 24p using 3:2 pulldown ?

That info will help me decide if I will or won't change my A1 for a XA2 (XE1 as I live in Europe).

Thanks !
jackox is offline  
post #99 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 05:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
metalsaber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by deez View Post

Ty Robert This would be a nice feature. It would be nice if the display was in the top corners like the PS3 so it did not interfere with the movie.

Thank You

Technically there already is a display menu on the controller which displays which encoding is used along with audio codec is used.

They would just need to add the bit rates to that menu.
metalsaber is offline  
post #100 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 05:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BrandonJF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert D View Post

It would be nice if a HD DVD disc would start up where one left off. No deal killer but Toshiba can't seem to put that feature into any player.

I agree - that would be great. Bookmarking can work around it, but I'm not sure why it has to. Plus, if you ever want to pause a movie, than switch the source on your display, it's over. Being able to go back, press "play", and start where you left off would be nice.
BrandonJF is offline  
post #101 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 06:35 AM
Member
 
John St's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 55
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert D View Post

It would be nice if a HD DVD disc would start up where one left off. No deal killer but Toshiba can't seem to put that feature into any player.

I totally agree. The lack of that convenience feature drives me nuts.
John St is offline  
post #102 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 08:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
FilmMixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles Area, CA. USA
Posts: 6,563
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked: 282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert D View Post

It would be nice if a HD DVD disc would start up where one left off. No deal killer but Toshiba can't seem to put that feature into any player.

It works fine on the Toshiba... it needs to be authored into the discs though... some HD DVD's resume, most don't... once again, it's part of the format spec, not a Toshiba issue.

Robert.... if you are putting a wish list together, how about no loss of audio on chapter switching or track switching on CD's over HDMI?
FilmMixer is offline  
post #103 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 08:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
deez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Sacramento, Ca.
Posts: 2,271
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

Technically there already is a display menu on the controller which displays which encoding is used along with audio codec is used.

They would just need to add the bit rates to that menu.

You're right there is...but if they do implement a bit rate meter they would need to keep it out of the way. The display they have ther now looks very old schoolish....they need to redo the display and move it out of the picture and add the bit ratye meter.

XBOX Gamertag:deezusmusic
deez is offline  
post #104 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 08:49 AM
Senior Member
 
bimmerguy288's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindii View Post

I have mine hooked up to a 3806 with HDMI and it sounds great. Set the optical to bitstream and forget about it. I would hardly call this a problem.

A newbie question: why does the optical's setting (PCM vs.Bitstream) have anything to do with the HDMI output's setting? Thanks.
bimmerguy288 is offline  
post #105 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 09:18 AM
AVS Special Member
 
FilmMixer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Los Angeles Area, CA. USA
Posts: 6,563
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 170 Post(s)
Liked: 282
^^ Probably becausse they upsample everything for the bitstream reencode and pass through for the PCM since the DD+ and DTS HD codecs support higher sampling rates. I would imagine that they are clocking the auido based on what the SPDIF output needs, instead of upsampling everything like the last players did... optimal for SPDIF, not so for HDMI if you are upsampling to 96kHz...

I figure that they would document this for HDMI users, but it is nice that they are trying to do as little processing on the SPDIF outputs.
FilmMixer is offline  
post #106 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 09:27 AM
Senior Member
 
bimmerguy288's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 218
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

^^ Probably becausse they upsample everything for the bitstream reencode and pass through for the PCM since the DD+ and DTS HD codecs support higher sampling rates. I would imagine that they are clocking the auido based on what the SPDIF output needs, instead of upsampling everything like the last players did... optimal for SPDIF, not so for HDMI if you are upsampling to 96kHz...

I figure that they would document this for HDMI users, but it is nice that they are trying to do as little processing on the SPDIF outputs.


Thank you.
bimmerguy288 is offline  
post #107 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 09:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LarryChanin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 6,810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

It is a problem with the A2. I tried it with two Denon receivers(2807 and 3806) with the same results. For some reason the setting for the optical output will affect the PCM output on HDMI and it will be either 48khz of 96 khz depending on the optical out setting. The A1 always output 96Khz pcm over HDMI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vindii View Post

I have mine hooked up to a 3806 with HDMI and it sounds great. Set the optical to bitstream and forget about it. I would hardly call this a problem.

With all due respect, whereas I agree that there may be more pressing fixes that need attention first, nevertheless, this unintuitive and unintended interaction between the SPDIF settings (even when a cable is not attached) and the operation of the HDMI connection is certainly a very real problem. This is particularly true since many owners report that the levels when listening in the "96 kHz mode" is significantly reduced.

So is the upsampling feature of these players that outputs 96 kHz on source discs with 48 kHz sampling merely a bug that should be ignored by staying in 48 kHz mode? Or should Toshiba correct this reduced volume when upsampling to 96 kHz? Wouldn't it be better to correct this confusing interaction of connections and provide a user option to permit or disable upsampling?

Larry
LarryChanin is offline  
post #108 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 09:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
BrandonJF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

It works fine on the Toshiba... it needs to be authored into the discs though... some HD DVD's resume, most don't... once again, it's part of the format spec, not a Toshiba issue.

How is the ability to remember the last played position authored onto a disc?
BrandonJF is offline  
post #109 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 10:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
WiFi-Spy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 2,283
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonJF View Post

How is the ability to remember the last played position authored onto a disc?

Any disc with HDi cannot resume....

Tyler Pruitt - Pro Calibrator - BionicAV
Technical Support - SpectraCal

THX Certified - Video Calibration

WiFi-Spy is offline  
post #110 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 01:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
metalsaber's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Western, Pennsylvania
Posts: 3,481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22 Post(s)
Liked: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post

Any disc with HDi cannot resume....

How does this limit the ability to resume? Just curious as I have no idea.
metalsaber is offline  
post #111 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 02:02 PM
 
Vindii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 274
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

With all due respect, whereas I agree that there may be more pressing fixes that need attention first, nevertheless, this unintuitive and unintended interaction between the SPDIF settings (even when a cable is not attached) and the operation of the HDMI connection is certainly a very real problem. This is particularly true since many owners report that the levels when listening in the "96 kHz mode" is significantly reduced.

So is the upsampling feature of these players that outputs 96 kHz on source discs with 48 kHz sampling merely a bug that should be ignored by staying in 48 kHz mode? Or should Toshiba correct this reduced volume when upsampling to 96 kHz? Wouldn't it be better to correct this confusing interaction of connections and provide a user option to permit or disable upsampling?

Larry


All of the movies are in 48 kHz. Why do you need to upsample them?

I would call this more of a quirk than the HUGE audio problem that some people make it seem to be. I agree that when set to 96 it is not as loud so set it to 48 and leave it. It sounds great. I agree it is weird but if they don't change the way it works I would never care.
Vindii is offline  
post #112 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 05:11 PM
Senior Member
 
rcibera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
but the audio is low... even independent of the 96 vs 48
rcibera is offline  
post #113 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 06:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
bobgpsr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Cedar Rapids, Iowa
Posts: 2,733
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post

Any disc with HDi cannot resume....

Hmmm...I could have sworn that I hit Stop and then later Resume with Total Recall (Studio Canal HD DVD) and it worked.
bobgpsr is offline  
post #114 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 07:52 PM
Senior Member
 
DigiPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcibera View Post

but the audio is low... even independent of the 96 vs 48

That's what the volume control is for... not that big a problem
DigiPete is offline  
post #115 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 08:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Robert D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 4,083
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiPete View Post

That's what the volume control is for... not that big a problem

It is when you go from watching a HD DVD back to standard TV.
Robert D is offline  
post #116 of 1198 Old 01-20-2007, 10:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
LarryChanin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Sarasota, Florida
Posts: 6,810
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

Technically there already is a display menu on the controller which displays which encoding is used along with audio codec is used.

They would just need to add the bit rates to that menu.

Hi,

Interestingly, Value Electronics' web page showing the Product Description of the second generation players lists bit rate display as a Convenience feature.

I guess in the interest of accuracy Robert needs to delete this feature from the web page until it is actually available.

Larry
LarryChanin is offline  
post #117 of 1198 Old 01-21-2007, 02:41 AM
Advanced Member
 
d-v-c's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: New York NY USA
Posts: 560
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by metalsaber View Post

Technically there already is a display menu on the controller which displays which encoding is used along with audio codec is used.

I have three questions about the Display:

On my homebrew red laser HD discs with AC3 5.1 -- the Display reads AUDIO: English 1 Dolby D +

1) why is plain old Dolby Digital 2/3.1 being reported as "Dolby D +"? Perhaps it is assuming that because it is an HD DVD disc and the audio is Dolby Digital, that it must be "Dolby Digital Plus".


2) The Display's Audio Output says "Digital PCM." But which audio output are they referring to? My SPDIF is set to BITSTREAM, not PCM. And my receiver is getting bitstream. So am I correct to assume that the Display is referring to the HDMI audio output?

My HDMI output is set to "Downmixed PCM" because, according to A2's manual, that is the correct setting when using SPDIF audio. If you set it to AUTO or PCM, the manual claims the SPDIF audio level will be lowered. (I see some complaining about low audio levels.) So this could be the reason for the "Digital PCM" display.

BUT, if I switch it to AUTO as a test, the display continues to report "Digital PCM." According to the manual, in Auto Mode, PCM will be output when the disc is recorded in "Dolby Digital Plus" or "Dolby True HD" or "DTS-HD."

This seems to support the idea that the A2 is assuming any Digital Dolby on an HD DVD disc is "Dolby Digital Plus."


3) So let's assume that the A2 is assuming the audio on my disc is "Dolby Digital Plus" even though its not. According to the A2's manual, when SPDIF output is set to BITSTREAM (as mine is) "Dolby Digital Plus audio is converted to DTS." That's not happening! My receiver which supports both Dolby Digital and DTS, reports the bitstream signal from the SPDIF connection is "Dolby D."

So if the A2 is assuming "Dolby Digital Plus" is on my HD DVD, then it should be outputing DTS. If it's not assuming "Dolby Digital Plus" and is correctly finding "Dolby Digital" and outputing it -- which it is what it's doing -- why is the audio codec claiming the recording is "Dolby D +"?

By the way the "Dolby" indicator is ON -- as is the "2ch" indicator. (I understand the latter is a bug to fixed in the new firmware.)

--------

The only answer I can come-up with is there is a bug in the A2's audio logic. After assuming incorrectly that the audio is "Dolby Digital Plus" it then tries to convert "Dolby Digital Plus" to DTS and discovers that its really just a "Dolby Digital" signal and correctly doesn't make the cross-conversion to DTS. Unfortunately, the Display continues to reflect the incorrect assumption.

ROBERT -- can you report this behavior to Toshiba please.
d-v-c is offline  
post #118 of 1198 Old 01-21-2007, 06:24 AM
Senior Member
 
DigiPete's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: So Cal
Posts: 436
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert D View Post

It is when you go from watching a HD DVD back to standard TV.


I think there is about a 10db drop between SD and HD discs, at least on my system (HD-A2 set to PCM to a Denon 3806 via HDMI)
DigiPete is offline  
post #119 of 1198 Old 01-21-2007, 06:32 AM
Senior Member
 
rcibera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiPete View Post

That's what the volume control is for... not that big a problem

True... but I've got to crank the sound up quite a bit to get decent sound. At one point I thought it was the receiver itself (Denon AVR-887) but I don't have this issue with the other components. The other interesting thing is that when I put the disk in and it makes it's way through the preliminary stuff and then to the menu, all those sound fine. In fact, Tokyo Drift was pretty darn kickin' when you're sitting on the menu. Once I hit play, I had to crank it up. Similar on other disks.

I'm also able to compensate by turning up the input level for the HD-DVD on the receiver itself. It does end up normalizing all inputs, but I don't really think that's the answer. For some reason it's low... Even lower if I set SPDIF to PCM even though I'm using HDMI, as others have pointed out.
rcibera is offline  
post #120 of 1198 Old 01-21-2007, 06:35 AM
Senior Member
 
rcibera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 220
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DigiPete View Post

I think there is about a 10db drop between SD and HD discs, at least on my system (HD-A2 set to PCM to a Denon 3806 via HDMI)

Pete... how do you have your settings on the A2? SPDIF PCM and HDMI Auto? I tried that but the sound got even lower. What's your Denon telling you its getting?
rcibera is offline  
Closed Thread HD DVD Players

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off