Does anyone else think that HD-DVD is blowing it? - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by naschbac View Post

The current hold-outs have been pretty entrenched on their side of the fence, and the first one to flinch would seem like a clear sign that the only people really mucking this up (the studios) must have found something compelling about the other side that they feel indicates a weak footing on their current position.

Agreed. I've repeatedly tried to make the point that the format-exclusive studios are largely responsible for turning what would otherwise be healthy competition into an all-out, winner-takes-all, consumer-gets-screwed kind of "war". I'm not saying the studios are evil, malicious or "wrong", or that it is some kind of conspiracy. Just stating the obvious. I usually raise this point to counter those people that suggest HD DVD is ruining it for everyone, dooming BOTH HD formats to niche market or extinction.

As for the thread topic, I'm also disappointed Toshiba hasn't done much more than cut prices on players and announce HD DVD drives for their laptops. I don't see how HD DVD can succeed in the long run without more studio support.

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post #272 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jelliott25 View Post

I'd be thrilled with any at all. I've never seen an HDDVD ad in my life.

Hi Elliott,

I occasionally see a TV commercial with a couple in which the guy is dangling out of a helicopter and is being held by the gal. She gives a yank and pulls him up into their living room couch where they're watching HD DVD.

Here's Toshiba's party line on marketing and promotion:

HD DVD Promotional Group Launches National Marketing and Retail Campaigns For Spring Promotion of HD DVD Format

Conspicuously absent is a mention of TV advertising.

Larry
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post #273 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi Elliott,

Conspicuously absent is a mention of TV advertising.

Larry

Oh well, at least they are sticking to their plan.

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post #274 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 02:12 PM
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I don't think they are blowing it. They came out first with a feature laden player BD could not compete with.
Why BD will likely win is due to brand name recognition and studio support.
Strange in a way, since HD DVD rolls off the tongue and says exactly what it is.

But it will remain around as long as studios keep stamping out disks for it.

Sure, maybe they should advertise more. I don't think the average consumer is that clued in. They could see the ads on TV , etc. but end up with a blue-shirt at Best Buy steering them toward a BD player. They look and sound about the same, what's the difference to Joe Blow? Not much I reckon. Prices are going down on all players, and when B&M sales people sell them on 'disk space' and other useless features (for the average consumer), they will move like sheep.
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post #275 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by videoaddikt View Post

Prices are going down on all players, [...]

The HD-A2 is still at least $100 cheaper than the BDP-S300 at both Best Buy and Circuit City (actually $150 cheaper at CC). The price disparity online is even greater.

Prices may be going down for BD players, but they haven't caught up yet.
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post #276 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by evolver View Post

The HD-A2 is still at least $100 cheaper than the BDP-S300 at both Best Buy and Circuit City (actually $150 cheaper at CC). The price disparity online is even greater.

Prices may be going down for BD players, but they haven't caught up yet.

I wonder if the suckers paying $500 for the BDP-S300 at retail realize that it's still a 1st gen machine that doesn't conform to the final BD-J specification and that it only sports an HDMI 1.1 interface?
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post #277 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

I wonder if the suckers paying $500 for the BDP-S300 at retail realize that it's still a 1st gen machine that doesn't conform to the final BD-J specification and that it only sports an HDMI 1.1 interface?

1.1 are you sure...I would think it has 1.3 being a new release.

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post #278 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 03:38 PM
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Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

1.1 are you sure...I would think it has 1.3 being a new release.

It might be 1.2, but it is definitely NOT 1.3. There's a thread about it in the Blu Forum. Someone took the cover off and the ASIC for HDMI is an older one that can't do 1.3.

But hey, it's Blu-ray so it must rock, anyways right?
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post #279 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

1.1 are you sure...I would think it has 1.3 being a new release.

Is it even Profile 1.1...?
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post #280 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evolver View Post

Is it even Profile 1.1...?

Profile 1.1 is not finalized, and in reviews it is reported that speed of the menus, etc, seems a bit sluggish, kinda like Gen 1 HD DVD players.
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post #281 of 314 Old 06-20-2007, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Profile 1.1 is not finalized, and in reviews it is reported that speed of the menus, etc, seems a bit sluggish, kinda like Gen 1 HD DVD players.

So, when can we expect Profile 2.0 (BD Live) then? Not that the S300 has an ethernet port. "Beyond High Definition?" Should be, "Behind HD DVD."
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post #282 of 314 Old 06-21-2007, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

Profile 1.1 is not finalized, and in reviews it is reported that speed of the menus, etc, seems a bit sluggish, kinda like Gen 1 HD DVD players.

I hear reports that it doesn't handle the new BD-J authoring for the two Pirates movies very well. I believe these are the first discs with the new authoring.

Remember when HD DVD was getting smacked for not being able to do "resume play" after hitting stop or even turning of the machine, guess what-you can't do it with Pirates either. This leads me to wonder what other "quirks/issues" BD has in store for it when they go full-steam ahead with advanced authoring for all their discs.

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post #283 of 314 Old 06-21-2007, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by jelliott25 View Post

Oh well, at least they are sticking to their plan.

Hi Elliott,

Last night I saw a short TV spot advertising the Matrix collections, but it was very weak showing disc packaging and no movie excerpts or interactive features.

Larry
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post #284 of 314 Old 06-24-2007, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by pier0188 View Post

Frankly, everybody realizes the brick and mortar store is in severe decline and just isn't really profitable. That's why you see BBI keeping HD-DVD online, because the next battleground is there.

The BBI news release is a non-event.

The reason they're keeping them online is because there's no required upfront capital outlay for discs. If 50 people want a particular disc in HD DVD format online, then BBI will buy copies and rent them online, resulting in a guaranteed profit for that title. Stocking HD DVD discs in stores means potential duds sitting on the shelves.

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post #285 of 314 Old 06-24-2007, 07:47 PM
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This is a war of 2 formats, that are nearly identical. Sure bugs are being worked on for both. But because the techno. is so much the same, I cant see why dual players will be the norm in 2 years.

This format war reaks of the DVD+R/DVD-R resolution.

Is a HD-DVD disk and a Blu-ray disc really that diff? NO. Sure material, encoding, reading may be somewhat different. But is this really that advanced techno? NO. What this is is but an upgrade (though very good one) to the DVD format.

These are nice disks that spin, and in my eyes the techno. only needs to move foward 2 steps, and both of these formats will be playable on one player.

Even if blu-ray 'wins', there will still be quality dual players that can play most of your HD-DVDs. Look at the numbers---even if blu-ray is selling more than HD-DVD...its not a crazy amount. Even if hd-dvd 'loses' it cant really lose because the slight upgrade in a next gen player will play those dics.

This is not a HD-DVD vs a blu-ray crystal----one doesnt need a hd-dvd player and a kryptonian Ion Beam. Hell they both need a frickin blue laser?

Deep down the smart corporations know that dual compatibilty is in the future. So why the format war? Because it makes you buy right now BOTH players, It makes these systems affordable to more people (you dont think competition cant be beneficial to everyone!, heck maybe more to the companies).

The PS3 drives part of this of course. See if you buy a stand-alone HD-DVD or blu-ray player---you kind of know the risk you are taking---and will ungraciously except the outcome. With the PS3 these kids want this all-in-one magic entertainment system. And I can understand that.
The problem is they shelled out all this goshdarn money, and many cant afford a xbox or a 360 addon (a partially separate format war). Its a great system, and has potential....but in this century the all-in-one doesnt last long.

Your favorite movies are THE THING and SPIDERMAN, and why do you need to players to play it!!!! OHHH the frustration.

I promise you people, dual players are the future. If HD-dvd no longer survives as a major stand alone....Their will be millions of disks laying out there. How many people wouldnt pay an extra $90 to have their blu-ray player with hd-dvd compatiblity......I though so.

When good dual players start hitting in spring 09 for $400-$600 dollars---the formats will live and the war will be dead.

But by then everybody will be sucking sand to get HDMI 1.6---which allows your hi-def player to have compatiblilty for text messaging (OH MY, WHY NOT SPEND THE EXTRA $200 DOLLARS FOR THIS FEATURE)


How do you think the backstreet boys sold so well? How can limp bizkit be made and broken in a matter of months?

In the age of the internet and 40year old boys, this format war is beautiful to the corporations. I first learned of hd-dvd and blu-ray by people fighting over the ps3-xbox 360. Now in the last 6 months---this has caused me to purchase a player and a HD TV. You want a game system...you will be lead into the format war. You get into the format war....well if you dont have a HDTV then you will need one right? IT gets you caught up in something that is a matter of months old. Hell I bought a sony 50" a2020 a few days ago and a toshiba a2 player. Toshiba sells a player and sony sells a TV.

Hell the format war was probably intentionally started with video gamers purely for the fact the people are going to be buy HDTVs (because if you have a CRT and want to get a PS3 you are a jacka$$, are you not?)

LOL just playing around guys, but please note some of my valid points.
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post #286 of 314 Old 06-24-2007, 08:21 PM
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The HD DVD Promotion group needs to get its act together

Toshiba
Universal
Microsoft

These three guys need to come out swinging hard. A few big things need to happen for the holiday '07

Microsoft: "Look at that! Our 360 HD DVD player now costs $129.99!!! Oh and it also comes with The Matrix!"

Universal: "Opps... looks like we forgot to release DVD only versions of American Ganster, The Bourne Ultimatum, Evan Almighty! Looks like we will have to produce alot of combo discs!"

Toshiba: "Our new A3 costs $199 and comes with a free movie packaged in! No need for the wait! Ohh and all of our laptops are actually shipping with HD DVD-R/-RW drives Q4 '07!!"

Now some scenarios which are much less likely

Warner Bros: "Batman Begins on Blu-Ray Oct. '07... oh wait never mind we are going HD DVD exclusive suckers!"
Samsung: "We might as well release our HD DVD standalone for the holiday season Q4 '07"
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post #287 of 314 Old 06-24-2007, 08:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post

It might be 1.2, but it is definitely NOT 1.3. There's a thread about it in the Blu Forum. Someone took the cover off and the ASIC for HDMI is an older one that can't do 1.3.

But hey, it's Blu-ray so it must rock, anyways right?

That is really dumb that a latest BD player doesn't come with even HDMI 1.3

Joe V.
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post #288 of 314 Old 06-24-2007, 09:57 PM
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doesn't surprise me. They want people with the means to buy a more expensive player. If it had 1.3 people would just settle for it and then later get a receiver with HDMI 1.3 and DTHD and DTSHD decoding. The player is the cheapie, they have to leave SOMETHING out.

Now, however, people with the means will get a player that does either decoding or HDMI 1.3, or both.
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post #289 of 314 Old 06-24-2007, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by hellgrammite View Post

Hell the format war was probably intentionally started with video gamers purely for the fact the people are going to be buy HDTVs (because if you have a CRT and want to get a PS3 you are a jacka$$, are you not?)


I resent that. I have a CRT and plan to get a PS3 soon. I have a HD-XA2 now. My CRT is an HDTV set with DVI, though. Still, I believe CRT is the best HDTV type as far as picture quality.

I just wish they made them larger so I'll have to "settle" for a DLP or LCoS as my next set.
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post #290 of 314 Old 06-24-2007, 10:53 PM
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Originally Posted by steven975 View Post

doesn't surprise me. They want people with the means to buy a more expensive player. If it had 1.3 people would just settle for it and then later get a receiver with HDMI 1.3 and DTHD and DTSHD decoding. The player is the cheapie, they have to leave SOMETHING out.

Now, however, people with the means will get a player that does either decoding or HDMI 1.3, or both.

Actually the player is essentially the same one Sony originally released, they've just changed the model number and lowered the price.

At least when Tosh comes out with a new model, it's actually a new model.
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post #291 of 314 Old 06-25-2007, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelHDDVD View Post

The HD DVD Promotion group needs to get its act together

Toshiba
Universal
Microsoft

These three guys need to come out swinging hard. A few big things need to happen for the holiday '07

Microsoft: "Look at that! Our 360 HD DVD player now costs $129.99!!! Oh and it also comes with The Matrix!"

Universal: "Opps... looks like we forgot to release DVD only versions of American Ganster, The Bourne Ultimatum, Evan Almighty! Looks like we will have to produce alot of combo discs!"

Toshiba: "Our new A3 costs $199 and comes with a free movie packaged in! No need for the wait! Ohh and all of our laptops are actually shipping with HD DVD-R/-RW drives Q4 '07!!"

Now some scenarios which are much less likely

Warner Bros: "Batman Begins on Blu-Ray Oct. '07... oh wait never mind we are going HD DVD exclusive suckers!"
Samsung: "We might as well release our HD DVD standalone for the holiday season Q4 '07"

Only comment: scratch the free HD DVD idea. Sales numbers are what is needed. Give them a coupon for 2 for 1 where sales will be registered at checkout. I think the free HD DVDs have been a BAD idea hence the videoscan numbers.

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post #292 of 314 Old 06-25-2007, 09:06 AM
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Originally Posted by alfbinet View Post

Only comment: scratch the free HD DVD idea. Sales numbers are what is needed. Give them a coupon for 2 for 1 where sales will be registered at checkout. I think the free HD DVDs have been a BAD idea hence the videoscan numbers.

Yeah that would be better. Include a coupon in the box which is good for Buy 2 get 1 free.
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post #293 of 314 Old 06-25-2007, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by MichaelHDDVD View Post

Yeah that would be better. Include a coupon in the box which is good for Buy 2 get 1 free.

I WANT THAT COUPON!
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post #294 of 314 Old 08-21-2007, 05:35 PM
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I may have the percentages wrong, but the argument is valid. Vive of the top eight movie producing studios support BD exclusively - only one supports HD DVD exclusively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean_O View Post

HD DVD still has Warner and Paramount as well as Dreamworks, etc. in addition to Universal publishing on the format. Exclusive or not, the support is still there. You are right about the percentages being off... Universal, Warner, and Paramount combined hold much more than 30% of the available catalog.

It's a point that needs to be made as some Blu Ray backers on this forum throw around statements like "Blu Ray will have 90% of what HD DVD has" with misinformed glee. I am not accusing you of that, by the way.

There was a thread here on this forum about total catalog titles of all relevant studios: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...37#post8528937

Forum member paintit77 summed the numbers and came up with about 20,424 possible Blu Ray titles available by combined studio support vs. 16,743 possible HD DVD titles available by combined studio support.

Hi,

For those HD DVD supporters that were faint of heart, I thought that now might be a good time to return to this thread.

Sean's earlier point is even more on the mark in light of today's Paramount/Dreamworks annoucement.

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation Each Declare Exclusive Support for HD DVD

Larry
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post #295 of 314 Old 08-21-2007, 07:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi,

For those HD DVD supporters that were faint of heart, I thought that now might be a good time to return to this thread.

Sean's earlier point is even more on the mark in light of today's Paramount/Dreamworks annoucement.

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation Each Declare Exclusive Support for HD DVD

Larry

Very true.
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post #296 of 314 Old 08-21-2007, 07:10 PM
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Good thread to necro.
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post #297 of 314 Old 08-22-2007, 08:58 AM
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I think HD is doing good. The only thing I would like to see change that in my view is hurting them especially with the neutral parties is getting rid of the combo discs which I hear some are.

Those are the biggest joke. Of if they don't want to get rid of them then at least release the same movie in non combo format as well.

I'm now Neutral
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post #298 of 314 Old 08-28-2007, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi,

For those HD DVD supporters that were faint of heart, I thought that now might be a good time to return to this thread.

Sean's earlier point is even more on the mark in light of today's Paramount/Dreamworks annoucement.

Paramount and DreamWorks Animation Each Declare Exclusive Support for HD DVD

Larry

Hi Larry,

I decided to see what was happening in this forum since my last "doom and gloom" postings. I think that it's fantastic that Paramount and Dreamworks have gone HD DVD exclusive! If a few of the other studios go format neutral or HD DVD, then I think we'll be in for a LONG format war. This will certainly not benefit the consumer, unless dual format players become ubiquitous.

I'd love to see Sony dead and buried, so come on Disney, Fox and MGM, go neutral or go HD DVD!! If it takes a bribe, I'll happily throw in a few bucks!

:-)

Roberta
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post #299 of 314 Old 08-28-2007, 10:03 AM
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MSpeed6 where are you? Properly buying an A2 from Amazon with 8 free movies right now!

Cheers,

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post #300 of 314 Old 08-28-2007, 11:30 AM
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the Dawn of the Living HDVD Dead........
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