THE Ultimate HD-DVD receiver!! $399! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
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With the number of enthusiastic posts about this topic, I'm so glad I posted it in this area now. For me, I was about to buy the 604, which led me to find out about this receiver, and I like all of you couldn't believe that the follow-up to the 604 would have TrueHD, DTS MA and HDMI 1.3 at the same price point!! This is really the purpose of forums like this, to get the word out about exciting things we may not know about, so right on everybody!!
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post #92 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 05:23 PM
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So what your saying is that unless you have an XA2, you can't get True HD over this reciever via HDMI.
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post #93 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post

So what your saying is that unless you have an XA2, you can't get True HD over this reciever via HDMI.

Aren't people getting TrueHD from their A2's via HDMI right now?
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post #94 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 05:43 PM
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Earlier posts have implied that because the Onkyo is a 1.3 HDMI reciever, to get True HD and DTS HD, (from this particular receiver) you have to have a 1.3 HDMI device (XA2). I'm personally not sure, I'm trying to find out before ordering one. There is confusion because 1.3 HDMI recievers are brand spanking new.
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post #95 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post

So what your saying is that unless you have an XA2, you can't get True HD over this reciever via HDMI.

No.... what is being said is unless your player supports HDMI 1.3.... you must continue to allow your receiver to decode TrueHD and send the data to your receiver as PCM when using HDMI. This is the same way people currently hear TrueHD audio with HDMI receivers. If your player (XA2) does support HDMI 1.3, you can send the raw decoded data to the receiver and allow the receiver to decode it. Similar to how legacy audio codecs are processed at the receiver level. I'm not sure how else to say it to make it any less confusing.

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post #96 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 05:50 PM
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Gotcha. But without a decoder for DTS-HD in the player, you couldn't get DTS-HD without a 1.3 device correct?
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post #97 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post

So what your saying is that unless you have an XA2, you can't get True HD over this reciever via HDMI.

Yes and no. You have to have an HDMI 1.3 player to send the raw DD-True HD and DTS-HD MA bitstreams to the receiver to be decoded. I believe at the moment that means an XA2 or PS3.

Anything else and the player will have to decode and send PCM over analog or HDMI. So you can get True-HD over HDMI without the XA2, but it will have to be decoded in the player and not in the receiver.

Either having the receiver decode or send out the decoded PCM over HDMI should sound identical in the end.
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post #98 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitro110 View Post

Either having the receiver decode or send out the decoded PCM over HDMI should sound identical in the end.

Thank You!!!!!!
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post #99 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

I'm not sure how else to say it to make it any less confusing.

If you have an HD-A2, you can get TrueHD by letting the HD-A2 decode the TrueHD stream and then sent to this receiver.

If you have an HD-A20, you can get TrueHD by letting the HD-A2 decode the TrueHD stream and then sent to this receiver.

If you have an HD-XA2, you can get TrueHD by letting the HD-XA2 decode the TrueHD stream and send it to the receiver, OR you can send it and let the receiver decode the stream, OR let the XA2 decode the stream and send it to the receiver using the analog outputs.

I'm thinking about getting this receiver so that I listen to TrueHD from my HD-A2 and PCM from my PS3... and hopefully more soon... if I can't already...

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post #100 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoob View Post

Gotcha. But without a decoder for DTS-HD in the player, you couldn't get DTS-HD without a 1.3 device correct?

DTS-HD is the core of DTS-HD MA. Current devices already support the core. But not to get into semantics.... I think your intention was to ask about DTS-HD MA which is the lossless DTS codec. Theoretically, if the receiver has a decoder for it then yes. However, since DTS-HD MA has a core track incorporated, it has caused a lot of confusion to the compatibility. To date nothing supports DTS-MA. I do see the DTS-HD-MA logo on this unit. Does it support lossless or only the core. That is a question i do not know the answer to. I hope it supports lossless.

To Alan: Thanks for explaining it in scenarios. Good idea in helping those trying to figure out how it effects their specific hardware configuration.

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post #101 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:01 PM
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Only HDM1 1.3+ receivers will pass a TruHD or DTS Master audio to a HDMI 1.3+ receiver. Otherwise the player has to decode internally and output via PCM. If the player cannot decode internally and is NOT HDMI1.3+ then you simply cannot get TruHD or DTS MA from that player to a receiver, regardless of what the receiver can do.
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post #102 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nharmon91 View Post

Are you sure? That sounds pretty stupid if true, I mean its still encoded why do you need 1.3?.

you don't

read the sticky thread at the top of the receiver forum

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post #103 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:04 PM
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i'm wondering how a 1.3 receiver is going to be able to decode the lossless codecs on these HD DVDs when 99% of them are authored advanced, meaning they have to be decoded in the player.

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post #104 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joffer View Post

i'm wondering how a 1.3 receiver is going to be able to decode the lossless codecs on these HD DVDs when 99% of them are authored advanced, meaning they have to be decoded in the player.


good question...
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post #105 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nitro110 View Post

I believe at the moment that means an XA2 or PS3.

My understanding is that while the PS3 has the HDMI 1.3 hardware, it does not yet support HDMI 1.3's feature set. Sony has yet to update the PS3's software for HDMI 1.3 support.

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post #106 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joffer View Post

i'm wondering how a 1.3 receiver is going to be able to decode the lossless codecs on these HD DVDs when 99% of them are authored advanced, meaning they have to be decoded in the player.

In that case, don't allow the receiver to decode, but the player.

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post #107 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Supermans View Post

good question...

it's rhetorical

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post #108 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by joffer View Post

i'm wondering how a 1.3 receiver is going to be able to decode the lossless codecs on these HD DVDs when 99% of them are authored advanced,

Which "one" isn't author advanced?

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post #109 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

To Alan: Thanks for explaining it in scenarios. Good idea in helping those trying to figure out how it effects their specific hardware configuration.

You're welcome! I've read about the receivers on several occasions, and I have an HD-A2, so I got it.

Of course, the person who said that this unit won't be able to decode DTS-HD MA from the PS3 even though it's HDMI 1.3 blew my mind. I'm aware this is the HD DVD forum, but if someone could PM me with more information regarding this, I'd appreciate it...

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post #110 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:26 PM
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I don't know why owners of previous HDMI receivers are kicking themselves in the butt. Its not like having the HD DVD player or receiver decode the audio track is going to make it sound any different.

The final audio stream, whether PCM or the undecoded TrueHD/DD+ sound track, will still pass through the receiver's DACs and sound the same. I'd rather let the HD DVD player pass the multi-channel PCM signal as the firmware gets updated fairly regularly.
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post #111 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:30 PM
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I just initiated a refund for a return of a 604 I purchased on Amazon. Before I send it back, I need confirmation that this really does decode DTS-HD MA lossless, and not just the core. A return also isn't necessary if Sony ever confirms that they'll unlock DTS-HD lossless on the PS3. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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post #112 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuan View Post

The final audio stream, whether PCM or the undecoded TrueHD/DD+ sound track, will still pass through the receiver's DACs and sound the same. I'd rather let the HD DVD player pass the multi-channel PCM signal as the firmware gets updated fairly regularly.

Not a bad idea. Letting the player decode the audio can also decrease your chance of lip sync issues caused by external processing. I think most people are assuming the quality will be better due to past experience with receivers doing a much better job at handling audio than the source. It is possible this could be the case with these new codecs and receivers too but nobody will know until they are able to test. I would want to hear some comparisons first before making any jumping to any conclusions.

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post #113 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WirelessGuru View Post

DTS-HD is the core of DTS-HD MA. Current devices already support the core. But not to get into semantics.... I think your intention was to ask about DTS-HD MA which is the lossless DTS codec. Theoretically, if the receiver has a decoder for it then yes. However, since DTS-HD MA has a core track incorporated, it has caused a lot of confusion to the compatibility. To date nothing supports DTS-MA. I do see the DTS-HD-MA logo on this unit. Does it support lossless or only the core. That is a question i do not know the answer to. I hope it supports lossless.

To Alan: Thanks for explaining it in scenarios. Good idea in helping those trying to figure out how it effects their specific hardware configuration.

It DOES in fact support MA as you can see from the display (well it says MSTR :P ) on the Pic and the dts Logo says Master Audio.
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post #114 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:43 PM
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very tempting so ready to upgrade my old yamaha. My wife cannot believe the price

im so far ahead...I feel outdated
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post #115 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nonametofame View Post

I just initiated a refund for a return of a 604 I purchased on Amazon. Before I send it back, I need confirmation that this really does decode DTS-HD MA lossless, and not just the core. A return also isn't necessary if Sony ever confirms that they'll unlock DTS-HD lossless on the PS3. Guess we'll just have to wait and see.

It is likely Sony will eventually introduce a software upgrade to the PS3 that will update it to 1.3. Otherwise it is kind of a waste to put 1.3 hardware in the PS3 without supporting it. I am assuming 1.3 support for the PS3 was always their intention. It is less likely the PS3 will ever decode DTS-MA internally.

At any rate nonametofame, if you want my advice.... I would send the 604 back and get the 605. The 605 has many features that will ensure future compatibility. If you keep your 604 now, I think months or years from now you will wish you had gotten the 605 instead.

My advice for purchasing is this: If you already have an HDMI receiver there is no real need to sell it just for HDMI 1.3 or decoder support. If you are looking to buy right now, I would wait and get one with HDMI 1.3 and more importantly one that decodes next generation audio codecs.

When Sony finally updates the PS3 to full 1.3 HDMI compatibility, if it is still lacking internal decoder support, it might be a good time to upgrade.

If Onkyo was raping us with premium prices for these new features I would have a different opinion (ie; THX). But the pricing of these receivers seems to be very reasonable.

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post #116 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:44 PM
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I am really confused that I'm hearing such conflicting remarks about the 605 receiver. I also initiated a return to Amazon for my 604 I bought last month, but I'm only making this move if I can get TrueHD for my A2 I just bought. Is there any sort of proof one way or the other? Usually I get a quick response and feel good on this forum, but right now, I'm utterly confused with all the contradictory postings.

I know people are saying to look it up elsewhere, but I am not very tuned into what these receivers do. It's a whole new world to me, and I need all the help I can get.

Thanks!

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post #117 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiggyblau View Post

I am really confused that I'm hearing such conflicting remarks about the 605 receiver. I also initiated a return to Amazon for my 604 I bought last month, but I'm only making this move if I can get TrueHD for my A2 I just bought. Is there any sort of proof one way or the other? Usually I get a quick response and feel good on this forum, but right now, I'm utterly confused with all the contradictory postings.

I know people are saying to look it up elsewhere, but I am not very tuned into what these receivers do. It's a whole new world to me, and I need all the help I can get.

Thanks!

you could have listend to Dolby TrueHD just fine with your A2 connected to the 604. you can also listen just fine to it with the 605. in either case the A2 will decode the TrueHD in the player and send it to the receiver as uncompressed multi-channel PCM.

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post #118 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohgami View Post

It DOES in fact support MA as you can see from the display (well it says MSTR :P ) on the Pic and the dts Logo says Master Audio.

The PS3 had that the exact same DTS-HD MASTER logo on it in pre-release photographs as well and look what happened. I would rather error on the side of caution. When this unit is released to consumers and verified to support it, then I will agree. Until that point, I would prefer to remain less than definitive in case somebody reads an incorrect or unverified statement made by me and makes a poor purchasing decision because of it.

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post #119 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joffer View Post

you could have listend to Dolby TrueHD just fine with your A2 connected to the 604.

How? I was under the impression that it was not possible?

82 HD DVD and 230 Blu-ray so far with plenty of DVDs too
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post #120 of 590 Old 04-10-2007, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jiggyblau View Post

How? I was under the impression that it was not possible?

Hook the A2 up via HDMI to your 604 and in your (A2)setting menu for HDMI Audio Out ----> set to AUTO or PCM. Select TrueHD on a movie that has it and you should be good to go!

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