Fuh Yuan to make 2M HD-DVD players for Walmart; Wal-Mart denies rumor - Page 11 - AVS Forum
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post #301 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I don't think so, the average Walmart customer is below the income level of Joe 6 pack at Best Buy. To buy a HD DVD player, they would likely surmise the need of an expensive plasma ($1.5K or more)....and movies that cost $25 -$40 each! Moreover, the movies are likely unavailable for rental at the local Blockbuster (and not found in the $5.99 bin either)... I think the demographic is all wrong. ...$299 HD DVD players and $30 movies are going to collect cob webs at Walmart.

At Wal-Mart, Wal-Mart is the mega brand. With a return policy and trust in the retailer, a non traditional brand can have mega sales. A house brand sold by Wal-Mart can easily outsell tranditional CE brands if the price is right. Climb off your high horse and see reality.
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I don't think so, the average Walmart customer is below the income level of Joe 6 pack at Best Buy. To buy a HD DVD player, they would likely surmise the need of an expensive plasma ($1.5K or more)....and movies that cost $25 -$40 each! Moreover, the movies are likely unavailable for rental at the local Blockbuster (and not found in the $5.99 bin either)... I think the demographic is all wrong. ...$299 HD DVD players and $30 movies are going to collect cob webs at Walmart.

Pathetic spin. The average customer might be lower in income, but a lot are not. And even if they are not $199 i inimpuls buying territory.

When's the last time you went into a Wal-Mart?

I see $999 and less LCDs and Plasmas being sold. $599 or less 32 inch HDTVs.

$299 is the well established Wal-Mart pricepoint for consumer electronics. $199 is well in their price point catagory for durable consumer goods. My local Wal-Mart sells a lot of $199 upconverting DVD players.

If Wal-Mart will sell a $199 HD DVD player they will price HD DVDs at $19.99 or less to match.

I thought your were format neutral again, this week instead of Blu-ray blinded. or did I get your schedule wrong?

You have no idea what you are talking about here. Walk into a Wal-Mart and look before you post such nonsense again.

Pathetic spin.

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post #302 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by efjay View Post

The company being referred to is Fuh Yuan not Tide Fuyuan, linked in the first post. Looks like two different companies.

http://www.fuhyuan.com/

Yep - looks like Fuh Yuan is a Taiwan company whereas Tide Fuyuan is a sub. of TideTime, a Mainland China ("commie bandit" as my dad would say ) company
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post #303 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:28 AM
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Interesting. And Imation is a member of the HD DVD group.

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Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

BTW, TDK brand name was sold to Imation this week - I'm surprised people haven't seen this news. Lots of changes at TDK ....

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post #304 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

This BLOG (not an article) is wrong. Too many people are relying on a single machine translation to report on this.

Go back to the original OP. He posted two links.

My best interpretation of this link is www.ettoday.com/2007/04/16/320-2082635.htm :

Wal-mart ordered 2 million players for delivery this year. The deal is worth $100 million USD. This means $50 per player folks, not $150.

The article further goes on to state, that after the 2 million unit Wal-Mart order is produced, more units will be produced for other US customers in 2008. The Walmart deal, plus these additional orders, could total up to $10.1 billion Taiwan dollars. $10.1 billion Taiwan dollars equals $304 million USD. The $300 million dollar figure is not just for the Wal-Mart order in 2007, but for all US orders through 2008, including Wal-Mart. The $300 million is a projection though, but it basically means they anticipating selling 6 million HD-DVD standalones to the US by the end of 2008.

Now I wish these other blog/news outlets would do their research before reporting. And if any native Chinese readers can do a human translation of the article, I would like to hear if you come away with the same info.

It's a shame you have to keep posting this, but some people just don't read the whole thread from the beginning.
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post #305 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:31 AM
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All this talk about low price HD player only leads me to mean HD-DVD. When have you seen anything low priced with Blu-Ray players. They charge a premium for their hardware in face of opposing competition from HD-DVD. Sony has always been proud and even brag that they charge a premium for their products because it's worth it. I highly doubt Sony (major founder and supporter of Blu-Ray) would allow that cheap of a Blu-Ray player on the market to compete against their players and the likes of Panasonic and Pioneer. Anytime we talk about lowering price on HD players, HD-DVD has made the announcement of price cuts. I see the same thing happening here.
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post #306 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:31 AM
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So is it time for the HD DVD Promotion Group to issue a premature BDA-like FUD press release such as this:

"Consumers have chosen...HD DVD is the choice

In a move that clearly demonstrates tho popularity of the HD DVD format, Wal Mart has come to an agreement to purchase 2 million HD DVD players that will be sold in their stores in 2007. Wal Mart, the worlds largest retailer, has clearly determined by their action that HD DVD will prevail in the battle to be the standard for high definition movie content. While Blu-Ray struggles with lackluster stand alone players sales and setting interactive software standards, HD DVD has been the lowering the prices on their players and been providing a number of exciting movie releases. With growing support among CE manufacturers and retailers, HD DVD is poised to make the leap from the enthusiast market to "must have" status among the general public."

Oh well, I'm not in marketing
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post #307 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kadeeu View Post

So is it time for the HD DVD Promotion Group to issue a premature BDA-like FUD press release such as this:

"Consumers have chosen...HD DVD is the choice

In a move that clearly demonstrates tho popularity of the HD DVD format, Wal Mart has come to an agreement to purchase 2 million HD DVD players that will be sold in their stores in 2007. Wal Mart, the worlds largest retailer, has clearly determined by their action that HD DVD will prevail in the battle to be the standard for high definition movie content. While Blu-Ray struggles with lackluster stand alone players sales and setting interactive software standards, HD DVD has been the lowering the prices on their players and been providing a number of exciting movie releases. With growing support among CE manufacturers and retailers, HD DVD is poised to make the leap from the enthusiast market to "must have" status among the general public."

Oh well, I'm not in marketing

Please forward that to the HD-DVD execs.
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post #308 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by luvxf View Post

My first language is Chinese, and I think some information is misunderstood. If you take a look at the text under the photo, it clearly says that Wal-Mart placed order of 2 million units which are totally worth of 300 million US dollars.

What I understand is the 2 million order will not be fulfilled by the end of 2007, and the finished units by that time will make Fuh Yuan 100 million dollars.


Could you please look at the 3rd paragraph (under the picture)(the original link you posted, not the update)? Does it not say that Great Wall will start producing more US products immediately after the completion of the Wal-Mart order? $100 million USD this year, with an estimated value for next year?

If they know the value of the Wal-Mart contract, why would they estimate for next year?
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post #309 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wei2008 View Post

I am a native Chinese speaker. I translated major points in those two links.

It is pretty clear to me that they were talking about HD-DVD. In the last paragraph, the major advantages of HD-DVD were mentioned, i.e. can take advantage of current DVD manufacturing equipments, low cost from DVD to HD-DVD, better protection from scratch and dirt, etc. I believe all these are compared with the format You Know Which.

The first batch, 2mil players could be delivered by the end of 2007 for $100 million, based on info from the first link. There could be more subsequent orders for 2008, totaling up to $300 million by the end of 2008, based on info from the second link (not Fuh Yuan's website).

All these information were released as part of campaign to promote Fuh Yuan's impending IPO for next March. It is from the Chairman of the Board of Fuh Yuan. He is the guy in the picture. He has to speak the truth to make sure his stock price flies sky high.

Case closed, it's obviously HD-DVD
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post #310 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luvxf View Post

My first language is Chinese, and I think some information is misunderstood. If you take a look at the text under the photo, it clearly says that Wal-Mart placed order of 2 million units which are totally worth of 300 million US dollars.

What I understand is the 2 million order will not be fulfilled by the end of 2007, and the finished units by that time will make Fuh Yuan 100 million dollars.

------------
sorry I put a wrong link, here is the right one with the photo fro OP:

I agree, UDN is saying something slightly different than what is in the companies website. I'll trust the companies own press release first though.
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post #311 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by smiledr View Post

I'm sure they are not marketed under Fuh Yuan and that they have another CE name they are going to release in the US. You'll be surprised how thrifty most Wal-Mart shoppers are and will buy anything they think that is as competitive for a lower price. Why, because they know if it doesn't work, they can simply return it no questions asked within a reasonable time frame. Just check out their return line and look in the return carts. Anything and everything is returned.

If the HD-DVD comes in to Wal-Mart at $99-199 and Blu-Ray is $399, they will buy HD-DVD and give it a try. If it's not up to par for whatever reason, then they'll return the HD-DVD and buy the BR at a higher price. When they see no improvement in PQ with BR, they will question why they bought such an expensive player, and back goes the Blu-Ray player. I see that scenerio playing itself out over and over at Wal-Mart. With Wal-mart investing in HD-DVD players, I see a big marketing push by Wal-Mart and their employees. I can already see HD-DVD hooked up to every HD Plasma and LCD come Christmas time playing A Christmas Story HD-DVD or Polar Express HD-DVD. So yeah, it might be cheap and of a lesser known name brand, but it's going to make an impact.

Exactly. Wal-Mart can sell low branded items, because in effect Wal-Mart is the brand name bringing brand name benefits of less confusion, assurance of quality and less purchase risk because of the easy return policy.

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post #312 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

By the way, what is the Chinese word for Blu-ray?

In the article "lan guang" is used, which literally translated means "blue light", and I take that to mean blue laser. I do note however, that Pioneer uses "lan guang" in their press releases as well, for Blu-ray products.


My co-worker translated it that word the same, & I said "blue laser" but he said "laser" would not be the correct term.


Ok, we are getting a Chines guy in our Dallas office to take a look.




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post #313 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frozenpenguin View Post

FYI, when I clicked on that Fuh Yaun link and went to the english section, my anti-virus program (I use NOD32) just went nuts. Trojans a-plenty. Be careful...

I have McAfee. No problems with that site.


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Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Somehow I know someone would ask that:

http://www.heise.de/english/newsticker/news/83411

is the first place I found it. It was in multiple CES press releases.

Heh. There ya go.

The HD-DVD camp now means to put an end to this unfavorable state of affairs: As outlined in a statement by the HD DVD Promotion Group at some time in the near future a new HD DVD with a capacity of 51 gigabytes, which was developed by TDK and features three instead of two layers, will be available. Moreover each layer in turn now has a capacity of 17 as opposed to 15 gigabytes. As the results of the tests carried out with a prototype are said to have been satisfactory, the HD DVD Promotion Group expects specification of the new HD-DVD-ROM to be complete by the fourth quarter of 2007.
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post #314 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nataraj View Post

BTW, TDK brand name was sold to Imation this week - I'm surprised people haven't seen this news. Lots of changes at TDK ....

changes, certainly; but the reports i read (like this one) seem to indicate that R&D and manufacturing efforts - including blu-ray creation, will remain TDK's.

still, i do have a harder time believing that the article refers to Blu-ray, not HD DVD.
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post #315 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

If you won't buy their movies as they are too expensive, how is Walmart planning on selling them to average Joe?

eeeehhhh

They are in test marketing now. When they are serious they will drop prices to maximize sales and revenues.

Wal-Mart will sell at lower prices than anyone else once a product becomes a mass market item.

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post #316 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BuGsArEtAsTy View Post

Heh. There ya go.

The HD-DVD camp now means to put an end to this unfavorable state of affairs: As outlined in a statement by the HD DVD Promotion Group at some time in the near future a new HD DVD with a capacity of 51 gigabytes, which was developed by TDK and features three instead of two layers, will be available. Moreover each layer in turn now has a capacity of 17 as opposed to 15 gigabytes. As the results of the tests carried out with a prototype are said to have been satisfactory, the HD DVD Promotion Group expects specification of the new HD-DVD-ROM to be complete by the fourth quarter of 2007.

it's curious to me, though, that there weren't mentions of TDK elsewhere (like toshiba's press release, etc). tdk's site isn't currently responding - i was hoping it could shed some light on the issue.

EDIT: it's unfortunately conspicuous to me that (as of right now) i can't find ANY corroborating evidence of TDK's involvement with HD DVD discs. anyone have more formal references?
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post #317 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwv651 View Post

What ever happened to the Venture SHD7000 HD DVD player.???

Chinese companies compete against each other too. that'll be next to it at Wal-Mart or Target

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post #318 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:43 AM
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if its $299 then i think its a blu-ray player as its to expensive for a chinese brand hd-dvd imo. Hope im wrong but theres no point in celebrating the death of a format prematurely.
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post #319 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovswr View Post

My co-worker translated it that word the same, & I said "blue laser" but he said "laser" would not be the correct term.


Ok, we are getting a Chines guy in our Dallas office to take a look.


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My god, how many Chinese speaking individuals must we have post on here to prove what has already been stated. I bet I could round up all fifteen of the Chinese exchange students in my program to translate and confirm this, and there would still be skeptical responses on here.

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post #320 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahlsim View Post

Most importantly here, has Wal-mart picked sides in this war or do they have something in store for blu-ray as well? If Wal-mart has picked a side, well....

Gee, well who would possibly ever conceive of Wal-Mart leaning toware the format that offers similar performance at at less expensive more consumer friendly more mass marketable price point?



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post #321 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovswr View Post

My co-worker translated it that word the same, & I said "blue laser" but he said "laser" would not be the correct term.
Ok, we are getting a Chines guy in our Dallas office to take a look.

At this point, I don't think this is a translation issue but rather an issue of what the writer of the article/release actually intended by the use of the phrase "lan guang HD DVD" - please see my previous post (#287?)

as I indicated before,
"lan" means blue and "guang" literally means beam or ray of light, so of course it could mean blu ray specifically
however, I have also seen the phrase "lan guang" used generically to mean blue laser/light/diode, versus the red laser dvds.

In a nutshell - I don't think further translations will give us much more insight; what we need is a confirmation whether the deal is specifically for HD DVD or blu ray (I have asked for confirmation in the insider's thread but have not received a response yet); fwiw I believe it's more likely to mean HD DVD
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post #322 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDfruitcake View Post

if its $299 then i think its a blu-ray player as its to expensive for a chinese brand hd-dvd imo. Hope im wrong but theres no point in celebrating the death of a format prematurely.

$299? Walmart is buying them at $50 each...
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post #323 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post

Could you please look at the 3rd paragraph (under the picture)(the original link you posted, not the update)? Does it not say that Great Wall will start producing more US products immediately after the completion of the Wal-Mart order? $100 million USD this year, with an estimated value for next year?

If they know the value of the Wal-Mart contract, why would they estimate for next year?

Hey, wnorris, let me translate it for you:

... will be manufactured by Great Wall. After the product was born, it received the order of 2 million units from Wal-mart right away, (I think it should be the end of the sentence) it was estimated that by the end of this year, the value of the products will be 100 million dollars, if you count the estimated value of next year, the products value will be 300 million us dollars. ...
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post #324 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:50 AM
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Wow, this is huge news. HUGE NEWS!!
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post #325 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiledr View Post

A--SNIP--. Sony has always been proud and even brag that they charge a premium for their products because it's worth it.--SNIP--.

This is 100% anecdotal. Many years ago (i think it was the summer of '79), I saw a PBS documentary about the founder of Sony. He told a story about how he went into a store & sony tape deck was the same price as a pioneer. He said that he hit the manager of the store with his cane, because that price was destroying the sony brand.

It would appear that over the years sony has stuck to that strategy. Really until the last few years it has served them well & it may be will nigh impossible for them to change such a intergral part of the "sony way"

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post #326 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

eeeehhhh

They are in test marketing now. When they are serious they will drop prices to maximize sales and revenues.

Wal-Mart will sell at lower prices than anyone else once a product becomes a mass market item.

Agreed that software prices will fall as more is produced. Always has been. Most who say movies are to expensive now and don't buy are also worried about the format war. I myself have both so can buy both. But if your one sided, you don't buy as freely because there is some doubt whether your format will be around in a few months. So buying a $25 movie for a single format is expensive if you have doubt about it's future. Now if you have a product you know is not going anywhere, a $25 movie now is not so expensive in your mindset because you know your format is going to last and the doubt is taken away. Imagine the confidence this new announcement now gives HD-DVD backers. Most will now see that movies don't look so expensive since they have a pretty good gut feeling HD-DVD is not going anywhere soon.
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post #327 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris View Post


If they know the value of the Wal-Mart contract, why would they estimate for next year?

Because they cannot finish the whole order by the end of 2007 and the share holders need to know the info. Also in the other article from the press, it clearly says the whole order will be fully shipped by the end of 2008 (the last sentence of the first paragraph).
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post #328 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kosty View Post

Gee, well who would possibly ever conceive of Wal-Mart leaning toware the format that offers similar performance at at less expensive more consumer friendly more mass marketable price point?



I wouldn't be surprised if the Waltons own HD-DVD players. From all that I read about them, they have always looked toward value in what they buy. HD-DVD provides that over Blu-Ray right now. They probably knows what's best for the average consumer. Cutting edge technology at yesterday's prices.
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post #329 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland View Post

I don't think so, the average Walmart customer is below the income level of Joe 6 pack at Best Buy. To buy a HD DVD player, they would likely surmise the need of an expensive plasma ($1.5K or more)....and movies that cost $25 -$40 each! Moreover, the movies are likely unavailable for rental at the local Blockbuster (and not found in the $5.99 bin either)... I think the demographic is all wrong. ...$299 HD DVD players and $30 movies are going to collect cob webs at Walmart.

They could always Netflix 'em

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post #330 of 2662 Old 04-20-2007, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

Reality check time.

What makes you guys think that Walmart won't do the exact same thing for BluRay?

You think they give a happy hoot who wins the disc war? Of course not. They're going to sell both scaled to what people are buying. If in time, one goes away, they won't carry it.

because Blu-ray drives and players might just be a bit more complicated to manufacture because the blue laser has to focus not only on the enter of the disc but also on the top surface?

There might be a inherent cost advantage for HD DVD optical units and drives.

Plus Toshiba and the SoC vendors may already be offering a licensable ready to use solution for manufacture.

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