HD DVD gets 1080p 24fps output thread. - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1258 Old 05-17-2007, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert D View Post

I'm really hoping the new Toshiba 57LX177 will do this right. If so I may just buy that display.

Make sure you verify it does it properly. The new Sharp displays which are 120Hz do not accept 1080p24.
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post #92 of 1258 Old 05-17-2007, 03:10 PM
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Yes, as Cal87 noted, some pj's (such as the RS1 that I have) do display the /24 signal w/o 3:1 pulldown, so I think that is where the interest in this feature is coming from. In fact this was the major reason I decided to start my hi def dvd experience with the Sammy BD-P1200.
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post #93 of 1258 Old 05-17-2007, 05:23 PM
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Recently I tried the following projector at 24fps using the Pioneer Elite player:

Mit HC5000BL
JVC RS1
BenQ W9000

They all stable at 1080p24 without judder.
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post #94 of 1258 Old 05-17-2007, 06:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

Recently I tried the following projector at 24fps using the Pioneer Elite player:

Mit HC5000BL
JVC RS1
BenQ W9000

They all stable at 1080p24 without judder.

How do you test for judder?
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post #95 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert D
"I'm really hoping the new Toshiba 57LX177 will do this right. If so I may just buy that display."

Quote:
Originally Posted by cal87 View Post

Make sure you verify it does it properly. The new Sharp displays which are 120Hz do not accept 1080p24.

Robert said elsewere that he thought it did, but will confirm:

Originall posted by DTV TiVo dealer
"Adam, I do not doubt you one bit, but I was told by a reliable technical source that Toshiba's Cinema series 42", 47", 52" and 57" LCD HDTV are performing a 5:5 pull down, so they take a sample of each of the 24 frames five times each.

Just to be sure I'll double check tomorrow with the LCD product manager and post my findings."
-Robert

I have not seen a confirmation, but I will post it if I see it. The Toshiba 57LX 177 also will have HDMI 1.3

Regards, Yampan
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post #96 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Graham Johnson View Post

What is more of interest to me is if the XA2 can be updated to XE1 firmware. I want to play R4 PAL disks on my XA2.

Has anyone tried this??

I serioulsy doubt it would work. If you really need PAL SD, you are much better off getting a region free XE1 from dvdupgrade in switzerland. I know I'm buying one this june on my trip to europe. One player to rule them all (SD DVDs and HD DVDs that is...).

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post #97 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

How do you test for judder?


I don't have an objectif test. For Blu-Ray I use the following sequence:

Last Samuray chapter 14
Sahara chapter 1
Troy chap 14

For HD DVD I will be using HD DVE. There is a really nice video sequence for that purpose with build ing and airplane.
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post #98 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 08:32 AM
 
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Thanks for the info Tolstoi. When you tested the projectors at 24fps for judder, did you see any difference between the motion on the DLP versus the DILA?
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post #99 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert D View Post

Not yet but then what's the point if all the displays just perform a 3:2 pulldown and display at 60fps? So either the player performs the 3:2 pull down or the display does it, either way you have induced judder. What we need is a player that will output 1070p/24 and a display that will accept it and perform a 5:5 or 3:3 displaying it at 120fps or 72fps.

The PROFHD1 does 3:3 to 72fps from a 24p source
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post #100 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 10:16 AM
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Hello all!

I have a Samsun HL-S5687W and I own an XA2 player.

My question is I dont think my TV can do 1080p/24p, what would happen if I update the dvd player with that upgrade? would it make my picture worse, or will it make it better, or will it have no effect at all?

Thanks to anybody that can answer this for me.
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post #101 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmaul40 View Post

Hello all!

I have a Samsun HL-S5687W and I own an XA2 player.

My question is I dont think my TV can do 1080p/24p, what would happen if I update the dvd player with that upgrade? would it make my picture worse, or will it make it better, or will it have no effect at all?

Thanks to anybody that can answer this for me.

You will not be able to select that option in the XA2, your display will not accept it as an input. You will not be able to use it, so there will be no difference.
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post #102 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 01:09 PM
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Oh ok, thank you Cal87 for answering this for me!

Do you think I am missing out big time because my TV doesnt support 1080p/24p? or is it really minimal?
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post #103 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darthmaul40 View Post

Oh ok, thank you Cal87 for answering this for me!

Do you think I am missing out big time because my TV doesnt support 1080p/24p? or is it really minimal?

It's not a huge deal. Once you've seen the difference, you might tend to notice it more. If you don't have it now, just enjoy what you have, look for 1080p24 next time you're ready to upgrade your display.
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post #104 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tolstoi View Post

I don't have an objectif test. For Blu-Ray I use the following sequence:

Last Samuray chapter 14
Sahara chapter 1
Troy chap 14

For HD DVD I will be using HD DVE. There is a really nice video sequence for that purpose with build ing and airplane.

The best "judder" test in HD DVE is chapter 6 - The restaurant sequence is designed to demonstrate 2:3 judder. At the start of the sequence the camera pan over the food and judder is very clear @ 60hz.

Dazzer
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post #105 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 02:51 PM
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Quote:


Do you think I am missing out big time because my TV doesnt support 1080p/24p? or is it really minimal?

It will be far more noticable/distracting if you are watching at cinema sizes (front projection of >36 degrees subtended viewing angle). Large front projection, which we are finally starting to be able to accomplish, challenge us to overcome things like this. For smaller sizes, you may not be senstitive to it.
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post #106 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 03:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

The best "judder" test in HD DVE is chapter 6 - The restaurant sequence is designed to demonstrate 2:3 judder. At the start of the sequence the camera pan over the food and judder is very clear @ 60hz.

Dazzer

I don't really have too much trouble seeing judder. It's the lack of judder I have trouble seeing. I watched just the first part of Children of Men(HDDVD) on the XA2 and at the beginning of Chapter 2 there is a Pan across a storefront showing some printed material and it was extremely choppy. I wonder if some of what I am seeing is caused by the panels used in the RS1? It will be interesting to see what 24P can do with this scene if Toshiba releases the firmware upgrade. I don't have HD DVE at present. I'm more interested in purchasing the HQV Blu Ray and HDDVD discs. I thought they would have been out by now.

I was looking at a website that Mark Peterson posted a link to in another thread. http://www.techmind.org/lcd/

If you take some of these test patterns and drag them around the RS1 display screen you can see all kinds of motion problems. The crosstalk patterns really cause problems. It makes me wonder if we don't see some of these problems in normal viewing to a lesser extent.
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post #107 of 1258 Old 05-18-2007, 08:20 PM
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Does anyone know what kind of 1080/24 the Panasonic AE1000U performs? I have one being shipped and trying to figure out all the ins and outs of it.
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post #108 of 1258 Old 05-19-2007, 12:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall Morton View Post

I don't really have too much trouble seeing judder. It's the lack of judder I have trouble seeing. I watched just the first part of Children of Men(HDDVD) on the XA2 and at the beginning of Chapter 2 there is a Pan across a storefront showing some printed material and it was extremely choppy. I wonder if some of what I am seeing is caused by the panels used in the RS1? It will be interesting to see what 24P can do with this scene if Toshiba releases the firmware upgrade. I don't have HD DVE at present. I'm more interested in purchasing the HQV Blu Ray and HDDVD discs. I thought they would have been out by now.

I was looking at a website that Mark Peterson posted a link to in another thread. http://www.techmind.org/lcd/

If you take some of these test patterns and drag them around the RS1 display screen you can see all kinds of motion problems. The crosstalk patterns really cause problems. It makes me wonder if we don't see some of these problems in normal viewing to a lesser extent.


Ranadall

The Children of Men movie has a certain filming style i.e. hand held camera and some may confuse this edgy/shaky filming style with other things. This filming style is also visible on other displays I own so I doubt it's related to the RS1 panels.

I looked at chapter 2 but didn't spot a scene with a store front?? There is a shot panning over a cabinet with photo's and stuff is this what you mean ?

There are numerous 1920x1080 res test patterns that can test frequency response, motion, 3:2 etc, etc on the HD DVD DVE disc. There is also an extensive 147 page guide to the use of these patterns and tests that can be downloaded from the DVE website.

I have the HD1 linked to a Lumagen HDP and @ 1080p/24 the HD DVD motion is very fluid relative to 1080p/i/60. The HD1 motion is also very, very smooth with SkyHD 2:2 film material.

Dazzer
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post #109 of 1258 Old 05-19-2007, 06:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dazzerxxx View Post

Ranadall
I looked at chapter 2 but didn't spot a scene with a store front?? There is a shot panning over a cabinet with photo's and stuff is this what you mean ?
Dazzer

That's the scene I was talking about. I was testing some firmware on the D2 and I chose Chap 2 to skip the startup screens. I watched Vertical Limit on Blu Ray at 24P last night and it looked very smooth.
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post #110 of 1258 Old 05-21-2007, 12:06 PM
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According to Xavier Pouyat from Microsoft (and Olivier Van Wynendaele from Toshiba), the September firmware update shall include the 24p feature.

May firmware update: HD DVD compatibility enhancement
June firmware update: network interactivity
September: 24p & Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams over HDMI 1.3
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post #111 of 1258 Old 05-21-2007, 12:07 PM
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post #112 of 1258 Old 05-21-2007, 02:28 PM
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It's interesting that nowhere does this post say anything about the audio issues, i.e., Bass Management.

The 'compatibility enhancements' for May looked like bugfixes for certain discs that have had issues - this is obviously a good thing.

Now, the item about TrueHD bitstream via HDMI - I thought this was counter to the spec for discs encoded with 'Advanced Authoring'........?
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post #113 of 1258 Old 05-21-2007, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MauneyM View Post

It's interesting that nowhere does this post say anything about the audio issues, i.e., Bass Management.

The 'compatibility enhancements' for May looked like bugfixes for certain discs that have had issues - this is obviously a good thing.

Now, the item about TrueHD bitstream via HDMI - I thought this was counter to the spec for discs encoded with 'Advanced Authoring'........?

no HD-DVD's will pass anything other than PCM, studios aren't going to use anything but advanced authoring, this is just my opinion and I could be wrong

-Gary
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post #114 of 1258 Old 05-21-2007, 11:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Adam, I do not doubt you one bit, but I was told by a reliable technical source that Toshiba's Cinema series 42", 47", 52" and 57" LCD HDTV are performing a 5:5 pull down, so they take a sample of each of the 24 frames five times each.

Just to be sure I'll double check tomorrow with the LCD product manager and post my findings.

-Robert

Any news on this Robert?
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post #115 of 1258 Old 05-22-2007, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHou View Post

According to Xavier Pouyat from Microsoft (and Olivier Van Wynendaele from Toshiba), the September firmware update shall include the 24p feature.

May firmware update: HD DVD compatibility enhancement
June firmware update: network interactivity
September: 24p & Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams over HDMI 1.3

Don't the Tosh players already do TRUE HD (bitstream) over HDMI?...not that i can test it.


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post #116 of 1258 Old 05-22-2007, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by thebland View Post

Don't the Tosh players already do TRUE HD (bitstream) over HDMI?...not that i can test it.

Only with HD DVD authored in standard content mode.

As far as I understand, this new optional feature allows to transmit over HDMI 1.3 Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD MA bitstreams of HD DVD authored in advanced content mode.
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post #117 of 1258 Old 05-22-2007, 05:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHou View Post

Only with HD DVD authored in standard content mode.

As far as I understand, this new optional feature allows to transmit over HDMI 1.3 Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD MA bitstreams of HD DVD authored in advanced content mode.

This is VERY NICE. I wish I could put my Fox BD titles in the XA2 to extract the DTS HD-MA audio-since my Panasonic BD 10 will never be able to.

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post #118 of 1258 Old 05-22-2007, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal87 View Post

You will not be able to select that option in the XA2, your display will not accept it as an input. You will not be able to use it, so there will be no difference.

Even if your display will accept a 1080P24 input it doesn't mean it will produce a better picture. If it shows it at a mutilple of 24 it will butr most sets that take a 1080P24 input will still be showing it at 1080P60. Then it is just a matter of whether the display, or DVD player does a better job of 3:2 pulldown. I want to get a Sasmung DLP set that accepts 1080P60 over HDMI so I can use my VP50 to convert from 1080P24 to 1080P60 since there aren't any Samsung DLP sets this year that will display at multiples of 24.

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post #119 of 1258 Old 05-22-2007, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatHou View Post

September: 24p & Dolby TrueHD / DTS-HD Master Audio bitstreams over HDMI 1.3

Interesting. Pass through in both audio & video.
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post #120 of 1258 Old 05-26-2007, 12:43 AM
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Come on Toshiba give us 1080/24 and dts-ma for the imports HD DVDs. They have to be more willing to do 1080/24 soon, now that the Sony PS3 does it. I'm not trying to annoy anyone, I just want the best of both worlds.
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