A2 audio over toslink for receiver - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-26-2007, 10:05 PM - Thread Starter
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I realize there have been several postings on this issue; however, I am still unsure whether or not my receiver will be able to decode the 5.1 DTS signal from the A2. Is it possible to output the signal in a "raw" form over toslink, I have tried this with the receiver and it interprets the raw signal as Dolby Digital even though it is in fact coming from a coaxial DTS source?? I have an 8 year old Yamaha RX-V595 receiver which I plan to replace but would rather buy an HD DVD player first and the A2 looks like a great buy unless of course I will be forced to output the audio in stereo composite. Thanks.
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post #2 of 21 Old 05-27-2007, 06:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinmagic View Post

I realize there have been several postings on this issue; however, I am still unsure whether or not my receiver will be able to decode the 5.1 DTS signal from the A2. Is it possible to output the signal in a "raw" form over toslink, I have tried this with the receiver and it interprets the raw signal as Dolby Digital even though it is in fact coming from a coaxial DTS source?? I have an 8 year old Yamaha RX-V595 receiver which I plan to replace but would rather buy an HD DVD player first and the A2 looks like a great buy unless of course I will be forced to output the audio in stereo composite. Thanks.

If you're using the A2 over optical, you will only get DTS for advanced codecs (Dolby Digital Plus, TrueHD) that appear on HD-DVDs. For regular DVDs, the A2 will pass the "raw" signal (if you want it to) for DD and DTS tracks on those SD-DVDs.

Remember, Dolby Digital Plus and "old" Dolby Digital are not the same.

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post #3 of 21 Old 05-27-2007, 10:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Right. I understand that, but I am still unclear on the DTS signals for the advanced codecs like Dolby Digital Plus and my receiver. Thanks.
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-27-2007, 11:16 AM
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If your receiver works with DTS on regular DVD's, it will work with the transcoded DTS streams (TrueHD and DD+) from HD DVD.

Essentially what happens is that the Toshiba player converts the TrueHD/DD+ track to PCM, then encodes it to DTS at 1.5 mbps for bitstream SPDIF output.
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post #5 of 21 Old 05-27-2007, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinmagic View Post

I realize there have been several postings on this issue; however, I am still unsure whether or not my receiver will be able to decode the 5.1 DTS signal from the A2. Is it possible to output the signal in a "raw" form over toslink, I have tried this with the receiver and it interprets the raw signal as Dolby Digital even though it is in fact coming from a coaxial DTS source?? I have an 8 year old Yamaha RX-V595 receiver which I plan to replace but would rather buy an HD DVD player first and the A2 looks like a great buy unless of course I will be forced to output the audio in stereo composite. Thanks.

The only questions would be

1) Does your receiver support DTS via Toslink?

2) Does your receiver support 1.5Mbps DTS?

If both of those are true, you're OK. If either is untrue, then there's a problem.
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post #6 of 21 Old 05-27-2007, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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When trying to output DTS it seems to support it if the spdif output is set to "raw" and then the player interprets the DTS output as Dolby Digital
According to Yamaha it supports DTS but I am still unsure based on my previous experimentations, is a raw setting possible with the spdif on the A2?
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post #7 of 21 Old 05-28-2007, 07:37 AM
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So would my Onkyo DS575X support True HD?
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post #8 of 21 Old 05-28-2007, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

The only questions would be

1) Does your receiver support DTS via Toslink?

2) Does your receiver support 1.5Mbps DTS?

If both of those are true, you're OK. If either is untrue, then there's a problem.

I have a Denon AVR-3805 and I'm pretty sure it supports DTS via Toslink, however I don't know about 1.5mbps DTS. Is DTS 1.5Mbps audibly better than regular DTS?

D

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post #9 of 21 Old 05-28-2007, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbelon View Post

I have a Denon AVR-3805 and I'm pretty sure it supports DTS via Toslink, however I don't know about 1.5mbps DTS. Is DTS 1.5Mbps audibly better than regular DTS?

D

Bump

Pro HD
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post #10 of 21 Old 05-28-2007, 11:53 AM
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I run my A2 over optical and sometimes I have a problem with gurgling on the center channel dialog. I believe the problem is my processor... it is older and can't process the 1.5 dts signal that HD DVD produces. It only happens once in a while but it really stinks when it happens. I'm hoping to purchase a new processor when they come out with all the processing for HDDVD.
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post #11 of 21 Old 05-28-2007, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinmagic View Post

When trying to output DTS it seems to support it if the spdif output is set to "raw" and then the player interprets the DTS output as Dolby Digital
According to Yamaha it supports DTS but I am still unsure based on my previous experimentations, is a raw setting possible with the spdif on the A2?

I'm not familiar with a "raw" setting, but I'm guessing it's equivalent to "bitstream". It's impossible for a DTS bitstream to be decoded as if it were DD, however, the display on the receiver could potentially show anything. If it gives clean 5.1 sound, then it must be correctly identifying and decoding DTS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbelon View Post

I have a Denon AVR-3805 and I'm pretty sure it supports DTS via Toslink, however I don't know about 1.5mbps DTS. Is DTS 1.5Mbps audibly better than regular DTS?

D

Regular DTS can be either 1.536Mbps or 768Kbps. SD DVD encodings are typically (but not always) the lower bitrate. Most likely, if the receiver can handle one, it can handle the other, but sometimes the higher rate uncovers problems.

I personally consider 1.536Mbps DTS to be easily prefferable to either the 768Kbps DTS or DD, and that's the advantage of the A2/A20 crosscode.
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post #12 of 21 Old 05-28-2007, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyr-Sog View Post

So would my Onkyo DS575X support True HD?

That depends on whether it can receive multichannel LPCM via HDMI for full bitrate lossless, or whether it can support DTS via Toslink for crosscoded high bitrate lossy.

You'll have to look at it's manual to find out it's capabilities.
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-28-2007, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoStrings View Post

I run my A2 over optical and sometimes I have a problem with gurgling on the center channel dialog. I believe the problem is my processor... it is older and can't process the 1.5 dts signal that HD DVD produces. It only happens once in a while but it really stinks when it happens. I'm hoping to purchase a new processor when they come out with all the processing for HDDVD.

Bummer !
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post #14 of 21 Old 08-05-2007, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbelon View Post

I have a Denon AVR-3805 and I'm pretty sure it supports DTS via Toslink, however I don't know about 1.5mbps DTS. Is DTS 1.5Mbps audibly better than regular DTS?

D


I'm bumping this because it's a good question. I currently have my A2 hooked up optical to my Denon 1802. It supports DTS, but I wasn't aware that some receivers might have an issue with the 1.5? Is this true? I can't find information to support this.

However, I will say that the DD+ downconverted to 1.5 DTS doesn't always sound good. In my situation, the DTS 1.5 almost sounds "gimped" like something is holding it back. I understand that you should compensate for a few decibals, but watching 300 was underwhelming to say the least if I compared it to the SDVD version audio.

So if anyone knows if there is any truth to the 1.5 thing, I'd appreciate it.

thx.
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post #15 of 21 Old 08-06-2007, 06:17 AM
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If there's a problem with your DTS decoder, it will be manifested in the form of the "gurgling" in the dialog that LoStrings mentioned. If all the dialog sounds fine, the problem likely isn't your receiver. If, however, some actors sound like they're being recorded from inside a toilet, then your DTS decoder is crap (like mine ).

Silence is Golden. Duct Tape is Silver.
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post #16 of 21 Old 08-06-2007, 02:34 PM
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thx geko,

No gurgling so I guess it's doing the process correctly. Still seems awful quiet though. I'm still trying to figure it out.
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post #17 of 21 Old 08-07-2007, 06:15 AM
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I have my A2 connected via optical cable to a Yamaha RX-V2400 receiver and find that bass output is somewhat weak on HDDVD's. It is fine on SD DVD's but it is noticeably weaker on HDDVD's.

For the most part I am able to remedy this by manually increasing the speaker level of the subwoofer channel on my receiver by 5 db.

Incidentally, I experienced the exact same issue when I had an A1.
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post #18 of 21 Old 08-07-2007, 06:20 AM
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Interesting.

I can say I have used Toslink a ton with most of the HD-DVD player products and have yet to have any issues with it on any AVR's. I don't think I have any experience with any of the AVR's so far listed in this thread though.

Generally works well.
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post #19 of 21 Old 08-07-2007, 06:50 AM
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Ok quick update. This is interesting. On the disc 300, if I change the audio setting to DD TrueHD, it sounds a heck of alot better. It's weaker on just 5.1 (plus?), the default.

Go to another HDDVD, Mission Impossible III, the only option is DD plus, and it's obviously weaker on my AV receiver. Not sure what's up with that. Anyone else think the MI:III is a weaker than normal sounds disc?
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post #20 of 21 Old 08-07-2007, 10:36 AM
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TrueHD is generally going to be better in all occasions. Since it's lossless, the player can reconstruct the original audio and then encode it straight into DTS 1.5 Mbps; the result should be identical to a direct DTS 1.5 Mbps encoding that could be done in the studio.

Dolby Digital Plus, while better than Dolby Digital, is still lossy. The player is decoding the stream into something that isn't the original audio and which is already missing some information and then re-encoding that as DTS. Transcoding from one lossy format to another is always hit or miss. In general, the result is almost always worst than encoding straight to the second format from the original source. It may very well be that in some cases, a DTS re-encoded Dolby Digital Plus stream out of a player will sound worse than the an original good old DTS/DD stream on an SD DVD.

Luckily, most movies come with TrueHD and make this a very minor issue in practice.
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post #21 of 21 Old 08-07-2007, 12:33 PM
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Don't know if the OP got his answer:

Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinmagic View Post

I realize there have been several postings on this issue; however, I am still unsure whether or not my receiver will be able to decode the 5.1 DTS signal from the A2.... I have an 8 year old Yamaha RX-V595 receiver which I plan to replace but ...

No. I assume you have the RX-V595 and NOT the RX-V595A receiver. The RX-V595 does not have a DTS decoder onboard, so all the audio will be and processed as Dolby Digital. http://www.yamaha.com/yec/products/p...4&CTID=5000300
Quote:
Originally Posted by dustinmagic View Post

Is it possible to output the signal in a "raw" form over toslink, I have tried this with the receiver and it interprets the raw signal as Dolby Digital even though it is in fact coming from a coaxial DTS source??

No. The SPDIF on the A2 can downmix everything to 2ch PCM (see manual on how to change that), but that's as "raw" as you can go through SPDIF.


The RX-V595 does have 5.1 analog inputs, so it can output TrueHD thorugh those. However the A2 does not have 5.1 analog outputs so you're going to up on a dead end there as well.

Bottom line: invest in a new receiver with HDMI (~ $500) or get the model with the analog 5.1 outputs (XA2 = $799 MSRP).

My recommendation - buy the A2 and this receiver http://www.circuitcity.com/ccd/produ...&cm_keycode=85 (pretty comparable to what you have, age for age) and you will still end up paying less than the XA2.
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