2nd Gen Tosh HD DVD Firmware 2.5 is up (1080p/24 for A20 and XA2)! - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim GoodBooty View Post

I don't know, but it seems the A2 will pass 1080p to a Pearl.


What makes you say this? AFAIK, the A2 is never supposed to be able to output 1080p.

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post #182 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:29 PM
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Appears even though people have gotten the ethernet port to download 2.5 firmware, its only setup for XA2 and A20 so far, because my A2/D2 still says 2.2 is latest and is up to date. I downloaded the A2 firmware image, burned it and tried to install it and it gives some error after about 60 seconds, and I had to reboot

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post #183 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:29 PM
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Quote:


If it is truly working with DVDs, it is still being sent through the GPU. Suxors.

They can still output 24p from DVD just like they can from HD DVD w/o post processing. They just ignore the flags and assume it is all 24p. You will have far more issues with DVD since mixed content is more common.

With that said, I prefer 1080i of the A1 into the VP50 using its force 2-3 mode. The CUE bothers me, but it is better than the micro stutters I see with the 2nd gen.
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post #184 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

True about using another player. However, in my case the HDMI and component outputs of the Oppo look the same as the component output on the A2. But no BTB and a much darker, crushed picture when using HDMI to DVI on the A2.


The one thing 2.5 did fix for me was the skipping I was getting on CDs. No longer an issue.

You're saying you clearly have a black crush problem (recognizing this is completely separate from the passage of Below Black -- many people confuse those two issues) with your HDMI->DVI-D display, and selecting between RGB "Standard" and "Enhanced" makes no difference?
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post #185 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck_IV View Post

It was available for me, however, it didn;t state it. It said only 2.2 was available and if I wanted to download and install it(which I had done last week). I said yes, for the hell of it and it started downloading something. When it was done, I had 2.5.

When you click Update in the setup menu, it's telling you what you HAVE, not what's available.


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post #186 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

You're saying you clearly have a black crush problem (recognizing this is completely separate from the passage of Below Black -- many people confuse those two issues) with your HDMI->DVI-D display, and selecting between RGB "Standard" and "Enhanced" makes no difference?


Correct, no difference regardless of settings. The picture is way too dark, just like it is sending 0 for black and not 16. Maybe I am using the term "black crush" incorrectly. Either way, the HDMI-DVI looks nothing like the component connection, which matches the component and HDMI-DVI connection of my Oppo.

I've seen at least one other poster so far also mention they see no difference between any of the settings with HDMI-DVI connection.

Any ideas?
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post #187 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:38 PM
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Changing RGB from Standard to Enhanced doesn't seem to make a difference on my Mitsu 52631 with the XA2. When I force RGB output on BDs on the PS3 and adjust the RGB output from Limited to Full on the PS3, there is a large difference in the Brightness setting. I can't really figure out why that isn't the case with the XA2, but having the ability to set picture settings (Brightness, Contrast, etc.) with the XA2 (I was using an A2 before) gives me a lot more flexibility with my setup.
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post #188 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kris-Co View Post

Appears even though people have gotten the ethernet port to download 2.5 firmware, its only setup for XA2 and A20 so far, because my A2/D2 still says 2.2 is latest and is up to date. I downloaded the A2 firmware image, burned it and tried to install it and it gives some error after about 60 seconds, and I had to reboot

I just installed 2.5 on my A2 using the downloaded ZIP file from Toshiba. No problems!
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post #189 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

They can still output 24p from DVD just like they can from HD DVD w/o post processing. They just ignore the flags and assume it is all 24p. You will have far more issues with DVD since mixed content is more common.

With that said, I prefer 1080i of the A1 into the VP50 using its force 2-3 mode. The CUE bothers me, but it is better than the micro stutters I see with the 2nd gen.

I can't find a CUE problem with my HDV5000 on rev 2.3 -- I specifically looked for it.

PS. 2.0 corrected the CUE problem on my A2, and since installing 2.3 on my HDV5000, the two pictures look essentially identical.
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post #190 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

They can still output 24p from DVD just like they can from HD DVD w/o post processing. They just ignore the flags and assume it is all 24p. You will have far more issues with DVD since mixed content is more common.

With that said, I prefer 1080i of the A1 into the VP50 using its force 2-3 mode. The CUE bothers me, but it is better than the micro stutters I see with the 2nd gen.

What is responsible for those "micro stutters?"
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post #191 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:47 PM
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XA2 internet update. W/O a hitch.

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post #192 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:47 PM
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Interesting...

After downloading via ethernet and updating itself, the XA2 turned off - biz as usual during past updates. But upon power up just now, I get a new message that it's updating again (see attached pic).

Anyone else notice this difference for 2.5?

EDIT: after pressing "OK" on the remote, XA2's display now flashing VERUP, but the TV lost the HDMI signal...

EDIT #2: XA2 turned off again, power on shows all updated!!
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post #193 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by primetimeguy View Post

Correct, no difference regardless of settings. The picture is way too dark, just like it is sending 0 for black and not 16. Maybe I am using the term "black crush" incorrectly. Either way, the HDMI-DVI looks nothing like the component connection, which matches the component and HDMI-DVI connection of my Oppo.

I've seen at least one other poster so far also mention they see no difference between any of the settings with HDMI-DVI connection.

Any ideas?

Yes, sending 0-255 luma will definitely wreck the black levels and result in a crush appearance. I thought that was specifically what this menu addition was intended to correct (giving the user the ability to overide the negotiated luma format.) It sounds like a firmware defect, like maybe the negotiation is overiding the user selection -- hope you plan to report it to Toshiba!
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post #194 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sspears View Post

They can still output 24p from DVD just like they can from HD DVD w/o post processing. They just ignore the flags and assume it is all 24p. You will have far more issues with DVD since mixed content is more common.

With that said, I prefer 1080i of the A1 into the VP50 using its force 2-3 mode. The CUE bothers me, but it is better than the micro stutters I see with the 2nd gen.

Is the micro-stutter random or replicable?

What gen2 palyer are you using?

thanks
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post #195 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Yes, sending 0-255 luma will definitely wreck the black levels and result in a crush appearance. I thought that was specifically what this menu addition was intended to correct (giving the user the ability to overide the negotiated luma format.) It sounds like a firmware defect, like maybe the negotiation is overiding the user selection -- hope you plan to report it to Toshiba!

- This was the same issue that I was running into with my A2 and my 1st gen JVC D-ILA over HDMI-HDMI. The black levels were significantly different over HDMI than component. Every other HDMI device I have has the same color space over component or HDMI. The A2 was the oddball.

Unfortunately, I literally sold my A2 yesterday and ordered an A30, so I can't test to see if this firmware upgrade would have fixed my problem. I wish the upgrade came out yesterday so I could test...
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post #196 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

Yes, sending 0-255 luma will definitely wreck the black levels and result in a crush appearance. I thought that was specifically what this menu addition was intended to correct (giving the user the ability to overide the negotiated luma format.) It sounds like a firmware defect, like maybe the negotiation is overiding the user selection -- hope you plan to report it to Toshiba!


I'll give it a few days untilmore people get the update and we have a better understanding of how many people it really helped (or didn't). And yes, I will then report it to Toshiba.
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post #197 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:10 PM
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Is anyone able to download the file for the A20 from Toshiba? I click the link and it sends me back to a product spec page with no link to download.
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post #198 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

Interesting...

After downloading via ethernet and updating itself, the XA2 turned off - biz as usual during past updates. But upon power up just now, I get a new message that it's updating again (see attached pic).

Anyone else notice this difference for 2.5?

EDIT: after pressing "OK" on the remote, XA2's display now flashing VERUP, but the TV lost the HDMI signal...

EDIT #2: XA2 turned off again, power on shows all updated!!

What he said -- same thing happened on my XA2, and it had me concerned for a while, but the update was successful. Planet Earth is looking mighty spectacular!

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post #199 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:13 PM
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I downloaded 2.5 and it installed ok but now I can't set my clock, Its no biggie I don't use it for anything. All other functionality ok
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post #200 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis Oblow View Post

I downloaded 2.5 and it installed ok but now I can't set my clock, Its no biggie I don't use it for anything. All other functionality ok


I seem to remember to set the clock you don't use the arrow keys on the remote but need to use the number keys to enter the time.
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post #201 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

Interesting...

After downloading via ethernet and updating itself, the XA2 turned off - biz as usual during past updates. But upon power up just now, I get a new message that it's updating again (see attached pic).

Anyone else notice this difference for 2.5?

EDIT: after pressing "OK" on the remote, XA2's display now flashing VERUP, but the TV lost the HDMI signal...

EDIT #2: XA2 turned off again, power on shows all updated!!

I upgrade via ethernet download from the player and same thing happened on my XA2. Got me little scared, too.
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post #202 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:20 PM
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I am having the same results. There is no noticeable effect when I change the RGB setting from standard to enhanced on my Mits 65813 CRT RPT connected HDMI out to DVI in. I don't have the blacker than black problem as I am able to see BTB by turning up the brightness in the XA2 by 1 or 2 notches. I can also smooth out the white scale ramp by reducing the contrast in the player by 2 notches. Even though I can "adjust" the problem I am not sure if there is some compromise going on somewhere in the signal chain the may be degrading the image. The picture looks great to me so I can live with the uncertainty.

The one problem I do have which I think is common to all of us using a Toshiba player is the incorrect color space being sent from the player when a SD DVD is up scaled to 720p or 1080i. SD should be REC601 color space, and HD should be REC709 color space. When SD DVDs in 601 color space are up scaled to 720p or higher, the player should convert the color space from 601 to 709 to match what the monitor is expecting. The XA2 does not do this conversion correctly. I believe this is a problem that definitely needs more attention by Toshiba and firmware 2.5 does not correct this issue. I know you can tweak your tint and color to minimize this issue but even with using Mitsubishi's "Perfect Color" adjustments it is not right. For those or us using the Toshiba players as upscalers going into a DVI input this is a major deficiency and something that must be addressed.
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post #203 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

Interesting...

After downloading via ethernet and updating itself, the XA2 turned off - biz as usual during past updates. But upon power up just now, I get a new message that it's updating again (see attached pic).

Anyone else notice this difference for 2.5?

EDIT: after pressing "OK" on the remote, XA2's display now flashing VERUP, but the TV lost the HDMI signal...

EDIT #2: XA2 turned off again, power on shows all updated!!

Yes, same results for me, but I used the zip file burned to a CD-RW.

I left the room initially, and when I went back, the player was off and the tray was open. I took the disc out and powered-up, and it began again. At first I thought, "oh no!, I shouldn't have removed the disc", but it was OK. Confirm 2.5 up and running, although with a 60Hz display and no DVI, not sure I really needed it.....
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post #204 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:25 PM
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dvdmann, how did you determine that your player is not converting to 709 on standard DVD playback?

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #205 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

Interesting...

After downloading via ethernet and updating itself, the XA2 turned off - biz as usual during past updates. But upon power up just now, I get a new message that it's updating again (see attached pic).

Anyone else notice this difference for 2.5?

EDIT: after pressing "OK" on the remote, XA2's display now flashing VERUP, but the TV lost the HDMI signal...

EDIT #2: XA2 turned off again, power on shows all updated!!

If you had read the Toshiba Release Notes for the update, you would have seen this:
Quote:


For the HD-XA2 player only, please also follow steps 3 through 6.

3. Power up the player again.
4. The player will display a message that another update will start.
5. Read the message and press OK. The message will disappear, and the second firmware update will automatically start. Please be patient during this process. (During the update, "VERUP" will flash on the display of the player.)
6. When the firmware update is completed, the player will automatically turn itself off.


XA2 + PS3 = Priceless
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post #206 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mak99 View Post

Interesting...

After downloading via ethernet and updating itself, the XA2 turned off - biz as usual during past updates. But upon power up just now, I get a new message that it's updating again (see attached pic).

Anyone else notice this difference for 2.5?

EDIT: after pressing "OK" on the remote, XA2's display now flashing VERUP, but the TV lost the HDMI signal...

EDIT #2: XA2 turned off again, power on shows all updated!!

Thanks for posting that image. I don't know what had me more worried, that screen or the fact that there was no EULA this time around (not that I miss the EULA, mind you).

Sadly, my Panasonic TH-42PH9UK does not accept 1080p over HDMI, 24 or otherwise, so I'm not sure why I got all excited about this particular update....

EDIT: Obviously, I didn't read the release notes either....
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post #207 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:41 PM
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I just want to clarify a few things before entering the 1080p/24 world of HD DVD. I'm under the impression that HD DVD concerts are recorded at 30fps. Does anybody know for sure or is it in the HD DVD specs to always be recorded at 1080p/24 or at least converted to it? I have The Eagles - Farewell Tour and Nine Inch Nails - Beside You In Time and I'm pretty sure that I saw somewhere that they were recorded at 1080p/30 with an HD video camera. Yes, I know, I have a diverse taste in music. I don't own it yet, but isn't Planet Earth also 30fps? I have a demo disc with movie trailers and a short scene of Hawaii and the beach and it had judder or flickering effect in it, but the trailers were fine, so I think the demo has both 24fps and 30fps on it. When I shut off 24 and left it on 1080p, then all was well with the Hawaii scene. Just something to think about because I'm loving this new update and I don't mind shutting off 24 for special content, but I just wanted to get some other opinions.
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post #208 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler358 View Post

If you had read the Toshiba Release Notes for the update, you would have seen this:

Ah, man - why can't I just download the update haphazardly and install it recklessly without having to read something?!?!

OK, seriously - thanks for pointing this out! Guess I'll open my eyes a bit when the next update happens...

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post #209 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevesns69 View Post

I just want to clarify a few things before entering the 1080p/24 world of HD DVD. I'm under the impression that HD DVD concerts are recorded at 30fps. Does anybody know for sure or is it in the HD DVD specs to always be recorded at 1080p/24 or at least converted to it? I have The Eagles - Farewell Tour and Nine Inch Nails - Beside You In Time and I'm pretty sure that I saw somewhere that they were recorded at 1080p/30 with an HD video camera. Yes, I know, I have a diverse taste in music. I don't own it yet, but isn't Planet Earth also 30fps? I have a demo disc with movie trailers and a short scene of Hawaii and the beach and it had judder or flickering effect in it, but the trailers were fine, so I think the demo has both 24fps and 30fps on it. When I shut off 24 and left it on 1080p, then all was well with the Hawaii scene. Just something to think about because I'm loving this new update and I don't mind shutting off 24 for special content, but I just wanted to get some other opinions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toshiba Instructions View Post

Most film based HD DVDs display images at 24 frames per second and video based HD DVDs display images at 30 frames or 60 fields per second. Depending on the content, “up to 1080p/24Hz” may lower smoothness of playback and/or reduce vertical resolution. In the case of video based HD DVDs, we recommend that “up to 1080p/24Hz” setting is not used.

^^^.

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post #210 of 1263 Old 09-12-2007, 08:51 PM
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Okay, what is the difference between rgb standard and enhanced? This is new to the menu. Yes, I use component.
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