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post #31 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 07:49 AM
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So the A3 won't do dts optical, is that the only difference? Also, do all receivers do 1.5Mbps?

Indecision may or may not be my problem.
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post #32 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

So the A3 won't do dts optical, is that the only difference? Also, do all receivers do 1.5Mbps?

mmc...
A3 DOES NOT transcode DD+, D TrueHD to DTS as we discussed it transcode to DD. However a point of confusion is that on a SD DVD, if it has a DTS track, the A3 will pass DTS, if the SD DVD has a DD track it will pass DD ..i.e. NO Transcoding on SD DVDs

Second, no all receivers do not support 1.5Mbps you need to check you specs...if it is fairly new it should.

BTW IMHO the DTS from the A2 is very pleasing!

Long Live The Gorn!
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post #33 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate View Post

I agree.

I'm assuming you are referring to my post, which was in response to your post

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate View Post

No. The A2 passes DTS 5.1 on HD DVDs, the A3 passes DD 5.1 on HD DVDs.

I believe you mean transcodes rather than passes... although the A2 will also pass a regular DTS track from an HD DVD to the optical output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate View Post

Oddly enough, the A2 passes DD 5.1 on regular DVDs, but not HD DVDs. Go figure.

Here you are referring to how the A2 passes DD (not DD+) on SD DVDs, but not HD DVDs... to which I responded:

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaGeorge View Post

Is there an HD DVD that has a DD (not DD+) soundtrack?

In other words, I don't think there are any HD DVDs that have a DD (not DD+) soundtrack, since DD+ is, I believe, mandatory, and having a DD track truly would not make sense
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post #34 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaGeorge View Post

I believe you mean transcodes rather than passes... although the A2 will also pass a regular DTS track from an HD DVD to the optical output.

I perfer the term re-encode since normally on HD DVD the audio is decoded to internal PCM, mixed with button sounds & PiP HDi commentary audio and then re-encoded to a lossy legacy codec for output on S/PDIF. Not really a direct transcode which BTW DD+ does provide support for -- but not normally used in HD DVD players.

Quote:


Here you are referring to how the A2 passes DD (not DD+) on SD DVDs, but not HD DVDs... to which I responded:

In other words, I don't think there are any HD DVDs that have a DD (not DD+) soundtrack, since DD+ is, I believe, mandatory, and having a DD track truly would not make sense

Not mandatory to have Dolby. I have a Total Recall HD DVD from Studio Canal that does not have any DD or DD+ on it. Just dts-HD HRA and dts-HD-MA. Currently all I get decoded is the encapsulated core dts at 1.5 Mbps.

Using a XA2 and We Were Soldiers as shown by Yamaha RX-V2500 AVR:
  • Toslink output of 640 kbps DD when the disc's DD+ track was selected.
  • Toslink output of 1.5 Mbps dts when the disc's dts track was selected.
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post #35 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgpsr View Post

I perfer the term re-encode since normally on HD DVD the audio is decoded to internal PCM, mixed with button sounds & PiP HDi commentary audio and then re-encoded to a lossy legacy codec for output on S/PDIF.

I concur, re-encode is a better and more accurate description than convert or transcode

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgpsr View Post

Not mandatory to have Dolby. I have a Total Recall HD DVD from Studio Canal that does not have any DD or DD+ on it. Just dts-HD HRA and dts-HD-MA. Currently all I get decoded is the encapsulated core dts at 1.5 Mbps.

I guess my belief was wrong on the DD+ being mandatory on HD DVD I would assume that the core DTS is simply passed through to the optical output, but this would prevent button sounds, etc., from being added, correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobgpsr View Post

Using a XA2 and We Were Soldiers as shown by Yamaha RX-V2500 AVR:
  • Toslink output of 640 kbps DD when the disc's DD+ track was selected.
  • Toslink output of 1.5 Mbps dts when the disc's dts track was selected.

The XA2, as I recall reading, re-encodes to DD rather than DTS, as the A2 does, but will still pass a DTS track.
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post #36 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IndianaGeorge View Post

I would assume that the core DTS is simply passed through to the optical output, but this would prevent button sounds, etc., from being added, correct?

No the core dts gets decoded internally to linear PCM, mixed with button sounds and PiP commentary audio and then re-encoded to 1.5 Mbps dts. Yep the same as was input off of the disc. This is normal practice with Advanced Authored HD DVD titles. Does not matter what the selected input audio format is off of the disc (other than the choice of a lossy legacy format to use for the re-encode for S/PDIF output).

Quote:


The XA2, as I recall reading, re-encodes to DD rather than DTS, as the A2 does, but will still pass a DTS track.

No you still have this wrong. Read what I posted earlier. I have a XA2 (used all firmware versions) and am sure of what it does from actual usage/testing. It re-encodes to legacy 1.5 Mbps dts if a dts or PCM track is selected.

SD DVD discs can be set to just pass-thru the legacy DD or dts (set the player SPDIF to BITSTREAM). That is for standard DVD's not Advanced Authored HD DVDs.
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post #37 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 11:40 AM
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Given that it's apparent you're serious about audio (nice setup, btw), you should consider better than settling for transcoded DD @ 640 kbps with an A3.

Since you seem somewhat budget conscience, I would suggest you grab an Onkyo Professional PR-SC885P prepro. This is from Onkyo's Professional line and is miles above their consumer-grade Onkyo brand receivers that are a dime a dozen. More information at: http://www.onkyopro.com/model.cfm?m=...eamplifier&p=i

I would certainly keep your CA-5 as your primary prepro. Consider this Onkyo more or less as a HT decoder and video switcher. It handles all the optical formats as well as the new bitstreams over HDMI. This means full bandwidth TrueHD, DTS-HD, and the like. It also fuctions as a nice video scaler since it includes a Reon-HQV chip. You get balanced and unbalanced preouts to fit in regardless of your overall setup.

Now, since this is a prepro only you'll need to amp your 3 additional surround speakers. Honestly, I'm not sure how good the integrated amp was inside the Vantas unit. I'm imagine they weren't fantastic, but you should look into amp options that fit your taste. Some suggestions: find a pair of used, reference quality 2-channel amps; grab 3 mono-block amps or one of the 7-channel amps from Outlaw Audio (http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/index.html); or look into some of the mid-priced amps at Emotiva Audio (http://www.emotiva.com/amplifiers.html). My personal suggestion would probably be to grab an Emotiva LPA-1. For the price it's exceptional, and you'll have the option of powering additional speakers if you decide to upgrade to a 7.1 setup someday.
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post #38 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 11:42 AM
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To the OP. Ebay has a couple Technics SHAC-500 audio processors for quite cheap. This unit has served me well over the years. It can be placed in a pre-out/main-in loop of a receiver or routed in to a 6 ch input. It is remote controllable, accepts 5.1 DTS and DD as well as 2 channel pcm. has 3 digital inputs (Coax and Toslink) and a 6 ch analogue input for its passthrough mode. This would allow you to place it in-line after your existing processor and use its passthrough mode when not needed. Also, it can be used to control output volume as if its a preamp of its own. That is how it works with my setup. When I use DD or DTS all volume adjustments are done with the processor as it is wired as the last step before the amps in my setup. Hope this helps.
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post #39 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 02:37 PM
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Maybe they could do a firmware update to get the A2 to pass both, I'm sure a lot people who bought recently are in this similar dilemma. Me included.
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post #40 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E-A-G-L-E-S View Post

You could have kept the A2 if you were buying a new receiver. Could have gotten one that passess lossless via HDMI.
But you are happy now and that's all that matters.


Yes, I'm very happy with the A3 and the decision to get the A3 instead of the A2! I watched my first HD DVD movie TRANSFORMERS and I was blown away! Now, I'm only getting HD DVDs, no more SD DVDs except for those on blu ray only.
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post #41 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 03:49 PM
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bobgpsr:

Thanks for the re-education! I only remembered that DD re-encoding was added to the XA2 and A20, but forgot that they retained DTS also, probably to avoid confusion to the user... as if anyone could get confused
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post #42 of 49 Old 11-11-2007, 04:18 PM
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Indecision may or may not be my problem.
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post #43 of 49 Old 11-12-2007, 07:15 AM
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I have the A2, has anyone done a side by side comparison with their ears to see whether the DTS on the A2 sounds better or not than the DD on the A3? As a rule of thumb at my house, we always choose DD over DTS because it is my experience with dvd's, that DD sounds crisper and more explosive and more enjoyable to me. The LOTR "Two Towers" extended cut opening scene with the Balrog is an excellent example.
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post #44 of 49 Old 11-12-2007, 07:52 AM
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Why would the OP get snubbed for using a receiver, yet the bottom of the line $99 A2 is OK? That makes no sense. Buy the HD DVD player that fits your needs and has analogue outputs so you can look yourself in the mirror without disgust.
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post #45 of 49 Old 11-12-2007, 08:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtfreek View Post

I have the A2, has anyone done a side by side comparison with their ears to see whether the DTS on the A2 sounds better or not than the DD on the A3? As a rule of thumb at my house, we always choose DD over DTS because it is my experience with dvd's, that DD sounds crisper and more explosive and more enjoyable to me. The LOTR "Two Towers" extended cut opening scene with the Balrog is an excellent example.

Interesting...I think DD vs DTS is a personal choice and differs from DVD to DVD
I usually prefer DTS to DD...my sample are e.g. Kill Bill I, DTS has waaay more depth/soundstage there in the fight between Gogo and Beatrix there are whole new sounds that don't come through in DD and Blade II DTS just plain ole rocks...

I will have to try LOTR TTT and see...

Here is a little snippet on one persons comparison between A2 an A3 sound
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...9&postcount=11

and another current conversation on the perceived/actual low LFE/Sound in HD DVD
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=4014

Long Live The Gorn!
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post #46 of 49 Old 11-12-2007, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audiomagnate View Post

Thanks for the help. My audiophile friends would banish me if they saw a receiver in my system.

They all probably have $5000 cables for their analog stuff too, right?

Pat
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post #47 of 49 Old 11-12-2007, 09:43 AM
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New here...
I have a A2 and a str-da3200es connected by HDMI, what audio is it passing? It just reads 3-2-1 on the display and the nifty blue light comes on. To my knowledge, it does not do true hd or any of the dts hd decoding.
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post #48 of 49 Old 11-12-2007, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokentoy1 View Post

New here...
I have a A2 and a str-da3200es connected by HDMI, what audio is it passing? It just reads 3-2-1 on the display and the nifty blue light comes on. To my knowledge, it does not do true hd or any of the dts hd decoding.

Seems like it is passing lossless 5.1 digital linear PCM into your AVR. The A2 does the DD+ or TrueHD decoding. Everything should be working right for you to benefit from the new Dolby codecs.


Don't know what that "blue light" means. If it is for a "Pure Direct" best to turn that off and let the AVR do the bass management, speaker distance/levels etc.
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post #49 of 49 Old 11-12-2007, 03:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by putz2k1 View Post

To the OP. Ebay has a couple Technics SHAC-500 audio processors for quite cheap. This unit has served me well over the years. It can be placed in a pre-out/main-in loop of a receiver or routed in to a 6 ch input. It is remote controllable, accepts 5.1 DTS and DD as well as 2 channel pcm. has 3 digital inputs (Coax and Toslink) and a 6 ch analogue input for its passthrough mode. This would allow you to place it in-line after your existing processor and use its passthrough mode when not needed. Also, it can be used to control output volume as if its a preamp of its own. That is how it works with my setup. When I use DD or DTS all volume adjustments are done with the processor as it is wired as the last step before the amps in my setup. Hope this helps.

Have you used one with the A2? I've read that some older DTS units don't work at the high bit rate put out by HD DVD players. Why doesn't somebody make something like this that does DD+ and True HD?

Edit:

Quote;
=====================================================
Here is a little snippet on one persons comparison between A2 an A3 sound
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...9&postcount=11
=====================================================

That guy ended up trading me his A3 for my A2.
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