XA2 OWNERS: Do you have the 1080P Power Down/ Shutdown Bug? - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Does your XA2 have 1080P shutdowns and if so what is your config?
I do not have shutdowns. I run HDMI straight to my TV set. 92 38.17%
I do not have shutdowns. I run HDMI thru a reveiver or router. 100 41.49%
I do have shutdowns that happen in 20 minutes or less. I run HDMI straight to my TV set. 13 5.39%
I do have shutdowns that happen in 21-90 minutes. I run HDMI straight to my TV set. 7 2.90%
I do have shutdowns that happen in 20 minutes or less. I run HDMI straight to my TV set. 4 1.66%
I do have shutdowns that happen in 21-90 minutes. I run HDMI thru a reveiver or router. 25 10.37%
Voters: 241. You may not vote on this poll

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post #1 of 525 Old 11-15-2007, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
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if you own an xa2 please vote in the poll and post anything here you think will be useful. there are couple of threads on this issue, i want to see how many people are affected either way. this is a pulic poll.

i've never heard of this issue at 1080i or 720, but if you have that please post here also.

if you had your XA2 serviced by toshiba, did that fix the issue? i did not put an option for that, please post your experience here.

i will be showing this thread to a senior tech support manager at toshiba, and do not want it going beyond the issue of shutdowns. the more info i can offer them the better.

here's why it's important to vote if you have not:

if you add up the people NOT having issues it fluctuates between 78-82% meaning 18-22% or roughly 1 in 5 are having issues. Since it's the same issue over and over and not a generic "are you having issues poll?" that is a very high figure.

It is important to get couple of hundred responses to the poll because if the 20% figure stays as it is, then this is a big bug.

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post #2 of 525 Old 11-15-2007, 07:09 PM
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I just upgraded to the Firmware 2.7 and now have shutdown bug after 5 minutes or so. I have HDMI from HDXa2 to Denon 4308CI and HDMI 1.3 to Pioneer 150FD. It pisses me off that this is happening. The player will only play King Kong for 5 min or so. It does not matter if it is on other scenes. Let me know what Toshiba says. Bill
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post #3 of 525 Old 11-15-2007, 07:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlm94 View Post

I just upgraded to the Firmware 2.7 and now have shutdown bug after 5 minutes or so. I have HDMI from HDXa2 to Denon 4308CI and HDMI 1.3 to Pioneer 150FD. It pisses me off that this is happening. The player will only play King Kong for 5 min or so. It does not matter if it is on other scenes. Let me know what Toshiba says. Bill

is it king kong only? have yout tried other movies?

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post #4 of 525 Old 11-15-2007, 08:16 PM
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I had mine set at 1080P running through a Denon AVR. shutdowns were random usually happening toward the end of a movie, but could happen anytime. I sent it into Toshiba, not sure what they did, but it appears to be fixed. Case number was SLE7101881.
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post #5 of 525 Old 11-15-2007, 08:18 PM
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If you have the problem call Toshiba at 800-631-3811 and they can arrange to have it repaired. You will have to pay send it to them and they will ship it back.
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post #6 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 02:17 AM
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You do know the work around, right? If you enable any input other than the one the XA2 is connected to, power on the XA2, and wait for it to boot up completely you can then switch to the input the XA2 is connected to and the player will not shut down.

This seems to work every time, at 1080p with HD-DVDs. Affected players only do the shut down at 1080p with HD media. This circumvents it. My semi-educated assesment is that there is abug at 1080p that causes the overheat temp threshold to get set too low when the handshake occurs before bootup. The player will do a "overheat" shut-down at a very normal temp when this happens. The threshold must get set just above normal operating temp, so fdreezing the unit DOES prevent shut-down, but the setting is still too low. At any other res, or with the workaround the temp gets set correctly and the player won't shut-down.

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post #7 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 04:09 AM
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Had the issue with my european XE1. (=XE2 us model)

Had it serviced and no longer have this issue.

Didn't get the details about the repair when the item was returned.

I'm shure the main print circuit board was not exchanged because my speaker distance setup was exactly the same after I returned it.

Shutting down happened after 3 minutes up to 40 minutes at times.
It happened after 3 minutes happened just after the player was powered on. So it isn't likely that it was caused by high temperatures.

Player connected into JVC HD1. Short cable or long hdmi cable didn't make a difference.
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post #8 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 08:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Derks View Post

Had the issue with my european XE1. (=XE2 us model)

Had it serviced and no longer have this issue.

Didn't get the details about the repair when the item was returned.

I'm shure the main print circuit board was not exchanged because my speaker distance setup was exactly the same after I returned it.

Shutting down happened after 3 minutes up to 40 minutes at times.
It happened after 3 minutes happened just after the player was powered on. So it isn't likely that it was caused by high temperatures.

Player connected into JVC HD1. Short cable or long hdmi cable didn't make a difference.

that is odd. maybe the drive or power supply were swapped. if it were a firmware upgrade, then they would have released it by now. The other possibility is a chip on the board is replaced or something to that effect. Would you mind callin g Toshiba to ask what they did?

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post #9 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 09:06 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam_G View Post

I had mine set at 1080P running through a Denon AVR. shutdowns were random usually happening toward the end of a movie, but could happen anytime. I sent it into Toshiba, not sure what they did, but it appears to be fixed. Case number was SLE7101881.

would you call them and ask about what they did?

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post #10 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 09:13 AM
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I have never had my XA2 shutdown. My #1 guess would be a bad fan - either overheating, and/or there is a speed sensor on the fan and when that sensor shows too low rpm the player turns off.
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post #11 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 09:58 AM
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It happened back in February/March and I do not have the rma forms anymore.
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post #12 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 10:07 AM
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Please fix poll...the second last choice should be a hdmi to receiver choice...no?? I voted in this one. The problem is definitely HEAT related because if I don't do the workaround and its first thing in the morning I can watch for around 20 minutes till the Onkyo 705 heats up. If I've been watching TV for a while and then try it is like 3-5minutes because the 705 is smoking by then (50C) and the HDPVR is always on fire practically. It must be a glitch setting the shutdown temp at a very low value.

PS...the XA2 is always cool to the touch and cool air is coming out the back...this machine runs cooler than anything else in my stand (I use an A2000 TV stand, 2 levels, HDPVR and XA2 on top, then 705 under HDPVR and PS3 under XA2)...good thing is now my PS3 fans don't go on anymore with bluray or games (only while upconverting), before the PS3 was above the 705 and the fans would go crazy...I'm actually surprised my HDPVR hasn't melted yet!!

PS#2....Category 5's workaround he talked about works perfectly every time...only problem is explaining it to the GF!!

PS#3...I get the bug even when bypassing the receiver and going straight to the TV, but again if I handshake the TV after the player boots fully then it doesn't have the problem anymore.

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post #13 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 11:17 AM
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I had been running at 1080i through a VP up until firmware 2.5
I then switched it to 1080p24 with 2.5 - which actually had it running at 1080p60, but that is another story. I had the shutdown issue. One suggestion was that it was a heat issue due to my Middle Atlantic rack mounting. I sent a message to Middle Atlantic, and they sent me a couple of their new completely vented shelves for free. No further shutdowns since. I had made a call to Toshiba tech support, and they suggested I send the unit in, but since the issue has not recurred with my new shelf, I am holding off.
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post #14 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 11:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbitrage000 View Post

PS#3...I get the bug even when bypassing the receiver and going straight to the TV, but again if I handshake the TV after the player boots fully then it doesn't have the problem anymore.

at 1080p or 1080i?

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post #15 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cal87 View Post

I had been running at 1080i through a VP up until firmware 2.5
I then switched it to 1080p24 with 2.5 - which actually had it running at 1080p60, but that is another story. I had the shutdown issue. One suggestion was that it was a heat issue due to my Middle Atlantic rack mounting. I sent a message to Middle Atlantic, and they sent me a couple of their new completely vented shelves for free. No further shutdowns since. I had made a call to Toshiba tech support, and they suggested I send the unit in, but since the issue has not recurred with my new shelf, I am holding off.

i think in some cases it may be heat related, but in most cases it seems to be an hdcp issue. i spoke with the senior tech at toshiba today (the one i mentiond in my first post) and he said that they are aware of this issue and that it is something they are working on a firmware fix for since its an hdcp/handshake issue. when pressed for why it only happened at 1080p, he said he did not know that, but would ask an engineer to find out.

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post #16 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youknowryan View Post

at 1080p or 1080i?

1080p, this is only a 1080p issue and only 1080p60 and only 1080p from an HDDVD disc. 1080i works fine, 1080p24 I think works fine, upscaling to 1080p works fine. Actually I'm not sure about 1080p24, it may have the same issue but I can't test as I don't have a 1080p24 TV (Sony A2000).

PS...are you able to change the second last option to "with a receiver" in the poll.

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post #17 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 12:12 PM
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I have had no shutdown issues in 2.5 or 2.7. I have watched about seven different movies (multiple times) on 2.5, and three so far on 2.7, all the way through, no issues.
XA2 -> HDMI+5.1analog -> Denon 2307CI -> HDMI -> Sammy HL-S6187.

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post #18 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbitrage000 View Post

1080p, this is only a 1080p issue and only 1080p60 and only 1080p from an HDDVD disc. 1080i works fine, 1080p24 I think works fine, upscaling to 1080p works fine. Actually I'm not sure about 1080p24, it may have the same issue but I can't test as I don't have a 1080p24 TV (Sony A2000).

PS...are you able to change the second last option to "with a receiver" in the poll.

i know it is a 1080p issue i wanted to see what you were running at when using the work around. my tv is 1080p/24 and it seems to work ok for me, but for reasons i will not go into i run at 1080p/60.

i cannot change the poll, and you're right i made a little typo.

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post #19 of 525 Old 11-16-2007, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 View Post

You do know the work around, right? If you enable any input other than the one the XA2 is connected to, power on the XA2, and wait for it to boot up completely you can then switch to the input the XA2 is connected to and the player will not shut down.

This seems to work every time, at 1080p with HD-DVDs. Affected players only do the shut down at 1080p with HD media. This circumvents it. My semi-educated assesment is that there is abug at 1080p that causes the overheat temp threshold to get set too low when the handshake occurs before bootup. The player will do a "overheat" shut-down at a very normal temp when this happens. The threshold must get set just above normal operating temp, so fdreezing the unit DOES prevent shut-down, but the setting is still too low. At any other res, or with the workaround the temp gets set correctly and the player won't shut-down.

I have shutdowns in under 20 mins. unless I use the workaround described by this post. I have been using the workaround for quite some time with no problems. This does seem like a simple software bug that could be corrected, although I don't know why it seems to affect some people's players and not others. I am connected through a receiver.
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post #20 of 525 Old 11-17-2007, 09:13 AM - Thread Starter
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keep the feedbck coming...

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post #21 of 525 Old 11-17-2007, 09:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gixx1000 View Post

This does seem like a simple software bug that could be corrected, although I don't know why it seems to affect some people's players and not others.

My guess is that it is still related to chip temperature, and thus chip variance. If the shutdown threshold "should" ideally be set at 70C it gets set at 50C somehow during boot up/handshake. Some chips operate at the very normal temperature of 55C, while others operate at 47C or less. This would explain why not all players are affected. It would also explain why there is no fixed amount of time that it happens, and why some people initially reported some success with putting the player in the path of cold airflow to alleviate the problem.

Either way, it is obvious that it lies in the software, and could thus easily be corrected by either a)removing the temp shutdown algorithm altogether, or b)finding what causes the issue and reworking the code.

The problem is, Toshiba claims to have never heard of such an issue when you call, and assure you it is an isolated case of "you have the only player with this issue".

The other thing is that Robert from Value Electronics is the only real way to let Toshiba know there is an issue, and find out if a fix is in the works or not. Problem is, even in threads where Robert actively participates he seems to ignore questions dealing with the issue (even when directly addressed to him). i say ignore because he'll answer questions posted right above and below questions regarding shutdown, but pretend the shutdown questions was never asked.

I also PMed him, and sent email to Value Electronics regarding the issue and was ignored. I know he's only one man, but i personally have asked (politely) if he knew anything or could communicate to Toshiba numerous times. It's not just oversight, he's ignoring the question - so I guess Toshiba is too.

It would be interesting to find the problem exists in the Onkyo players too. I'm betting "for", officially as of this thread.

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post #22 of 525 Old 11-18-2007, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 View Post

My guess is that it is still related to chip temperature, and thus chip variance. If the shutdown threshold "should" ideally be set at 70C it gets set at 50C somehow during boot up/handshake. Some chips operate at the very normal temperature of 55C, while others operate at 47C or less. This would explain why not all players are affected. It would also explain why there is no fixed amount of time that it happens, and why some people initially reported some success with putting the player in the path of cold airflow to alleviate the problem.

Either way, it is obvious that it lies in the software, and could thus easily be corrected by either a)removing the temp shutdown algorithm altogether, or b)finding what causes the issue and reworking the code.

The problem is, Toshiba claims to have never heard of such an issue when you call, and assure you it is an isolated case of "you have the only player with this issue".

The other thing is that Robert from Value Electronics is the only real way to let Toshiba know there is an issue, and find out if a fix is in the works or not. Problem is, even in threads where Robert actively participates he seems to ignore questions dealing with the issue (even when directly addressed to him). i say ignore because he'll answer questions posted right above and below questions regarding shutdown, but pretend the shutdown questions was never asked.

I also PMed him, and sent email to Value Electronics regarding the issue and was ignored. I know he's only one man, but i personally have asked (politely) if he knew anything or could communicate to Toshiba numerous times. It's not just oversight, he's ignoring the question - so I guess Toshiba is too.

It would be interesting to find the problem exists in the Onkyo players too. I'm betting "for", officially as of this thread.

I've also noticed Robert ignoring certain posts, aswell of mine, eventhough he's responding in real time to others in the same thread...and usually its when I mention the shutdown bug...I think Robert is a great contribution to threads about Toshiba but I'm also confused why he is so selective in helping certain people. I've even posted compliments towards him without any response. Must have looked at him the wrong way one time...actually I did critizize one of his posts arguing about Chris Deering's statement that the 1080p60 issue in the a20/30/35 could not be fixed via firmware, and after that he must have me on his ignore list!! Touchy fellow if you ask me. Did you ever criticise one of his postings?? I bet he has us both on his ignore list and therefore never sees our posts!

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post #23 of 525 Old 11-18-2007, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youknowryan View Post

i know it is a 1080p issue i wanted to see what you were running at when using the work around. my tv is 1080p/24 and it seems to work ok for me, but for reasons i will not go into i run at 1080p/60.

i cannot change the poll, and you're right i made a little typo.

No problem, just wanted to point it out, as thats where I voted, but technically I could vote in the direct to TV and under 20 minutes as well. And yes my problem is always at 1080p60. Thanks for creating this thread, I hope it brings it to Toshiba's attention and we can get a fix!

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post #24 of 525 Old 11-18-2007, 10:34 AM - Thread Starter
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you're right i did a post history search and robert has ignored every question about the shutdown bug. this is even in threads when he is answering other questions. i wonder why that might be. everything i know about him is that he is pretty cool. i am sure he has a reason... i;m going to head over to the 805 thread and ask.

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post #25 of 525 Old 11-18-2007, 11:15 AM
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Toshiba replaced my xa2 and I have had no more trouble. The old one would shut down after about 15 mins.
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post #26 of 525 Old 11-18-2007, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youknowryan View Post

you're right i did a post history search and robert has ignored every question about the shutdown bug. this is even in threads when he is answering other questions. i wonder why that might be.

Maybe you can try PMing him about it, I'm sure I'm on his ignore list! I've never had a response from him even about other things. If you can get him to acknowledge this issue then he has direct links to Toshiba and can at least get the ball rolling.

Edit....Robert just responded to me in the Onkyo 805 HDDVD player thread!!! I guess I prejudged him to fast. I replied and specifically asked and explained the shutdown problem...now we'll see if he has any info.

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post #27 of 525 Old 11-18-2007, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by applejackaz View Post

Toshiba replaced my xa2 and I have had no more trouble. The old one would shut down after about 15 mins.

How was the service, did they cover shipping?...did they repair or replace?...if replaced was it new or refurb??

Thanks

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post #28 of 525 Old 11-18-2007, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arbitrage000 View Post

How was the service, did they cover shipping?...did they repair or replace?...if replaced was it new or refurb??

Thanks

I paid for shipping to them. It took a while but I got a new unit back. Old stock I guess, because it had old firmware. No problems at all now.

They sure know about this because that was back in May when I got my 1080p set!

Good Luck
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post #29 of 525 Old 11-18-2007, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by arbitrage000 View Post

I've also noticed Robert ignoring certain posts, aswell of mine, eventhough he's responding in real time to others in the same thread...and usually its when I mention the shutdown bug...I think Robert is a great contribution to threads about Toshiba but I'm also confused why he is so selective in helping certain people. I've even posted compliments towards him without any response. Must have looked at him the wrong way one time...actually I did critizize one of his posts arguing about Chris Deering's statement that the 1080p60 issue in the a20/30/35 could not be fixed via firmware, and after that he must have me on his ignore list!! Touchy fellow if you ask me. Did you ever criticise one of his postings?? I bet he has us both on his ignore list and therefore never sees our posts!

I wouldn't really be surprised if Robert didn't have any people on ignore list, I just think he is very much "in business mode" all the time and very selective about what kind of responses he makes and where. I think he reads much, much, much more than he responds to. This is all just guesswork, but it seems that way. BTW, I appreciate what Robert brings here VERY MUCH - I've just learnt to read in the right context.

Robert usually seems to respond to topics he has information about, especially if that is positive information, or topics that are neutral in nature. Difficult/unpleasant questions e.g. about Toshiba HD DVD players he seems to dodge if he doesn't have good news to counter, so I wouldn't be surprised if he just ignored your posts because of that. Maybe he doesn't have answers (or those answers aren't pleasant enough) and he just wants to concentrate on things where he can deliver a positive and encouraging message.

(For instance he never I believe came back with an explanation to the A20 1080p60 bug that he claimed didn't exist before 2.5 (he was told it did) - nor did I ever remember him saying anything about that line that Toshiba doesn't use plastic tape, which was critiqued, inside HD DVD players as standard and that it was just that one unit (since then several pictures have shown it to be standard). Some other examples Robert also hinted at more for DMP-BD10 updates and I think CEDIA news after P-Day also than so far has come to be. So he drops these tidbits and tries to be positive whenever he can - I'm sure he does this based on souces, but there is this filter that he uses to make things sound positive.)

I'm sure what he brings to the table he believes as genuine and most of the time his information has been accurate, but he doesn't have a history of really explaining himself or acknowledging specifics when they are less than positive or mistakes happen. Obviously he believes he is serving his partners (e.g. Toshiba) interests best by trying to keep it as positive as possible. He likes to add a bit over the top paragraphs about appreciating Toshiba etc. I know some of us might appreciate a bit more direct approach, but I guess we just have to live with the fact that we are getting his business face and that's that. That business face, in the end, is far more valuable to us than no Robert at all.

I appreciate his participation very much and, Robert, if you are reading please know it is valued (no pun intended).

This was just my personal feelings, not in any way fact. Please feel free to ignore as you guys see fit. And again, thanks Robert.
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post #30 of 525 Old 11-18-2007, 05:46 PM - Thread Starter
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robert did say that tosh was aware of this issue (in the onkyo 805 thread) and that they will fix it with a firmware update. this is good news.

as for the current poll it seems about 20% of users have shutdowns. this is a very high figure and i think we need to get 200+ responses to make sure that the sample is not biased. still as of right now 20% is a lot of users, though the sample is small.

please post in the poll if you own an xa2 and have not already done so.

USE THE SEARCH BUTTON BEFORE POSTING QUESTIONS.
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