Shrek the third HD; film mode? - AVS Forum

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smackman1's Avatar smackman1
11:17 AM Liked: 10
post #1 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 293
Joined: Dec 2006
What mode should Shrek the third HD be in? Film, Video or Auto? I have a HD-A2.
If someone could explain these setting I would appreciate it. I have read that Auto at times does not detect properly. Does this setting really matter?
Thanks in advance
patnshan's Avatar patnshan
11:19 AM Liked: 10
post #2 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 1,026
Joined: May 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackman1 View Post

What mode should Shrek the third HD be in? Film, Video or Auto? I have a HD-A2.
If someone could explain these setting I would appreciate it. I have read that Auto at times does not detect properly. Does this setting really matter?
Thanks in advance


I use auto for everything, haven't had a problem. What do you mean by "detect"?

Pat
Lee Stewart's Avatar Lee Stewart
11:21 AM Liked: 44
post #3 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 19,369
Joined: Feb 2007
Do you own Van Helsing?

If not - can you rent it?

The first 5 to 7 minutes of the film are in B&W. Try all the different setting during that sequence and watch what they are doing to the image . . .
smackman1's Avatar smackman1
11:37 AM Liked: 10
post #4 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnshan View Post

I use auto for everything, haven't had a problem. What do you mean by "detect"?

Pat

Well, This is why I ask for a explanantion. What does Auto do? Does the Auto Mode determine if its film or video mode? In all honesty, I do not know what film or video choices mean. Please be patient; some of us are not experts and trying to learn. Thank you.
patnshan's Avatar patnshan
11:43 AM Liked: 10
post #5 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 1,026
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackman1 View Post

Well, This is why I ask for a explanantion. What does Auto do? Does the Auto Mode determine if its film or video mode? In all honesty, I do not know what film or video choices mean. Please be patient; some of us are not experts and trying to learn. Thank you.

I am most certainly not an expert, far from it. I just read forums here a little too much and have learned a few things. I think that the auto mode does just what you said, it detects whichever the disc was encoded in. Hopefully, an expert will come along and explain exactly what they mean

Pat
Jgatie's Avatar Jgatie
11:45 AM Liked: 10
post #6 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 1,566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackman1 View Post

Well, This is why I ask for a explanantion. What does Auto do? Does the Auto Mode determine if its film or video mode? In all honesty, I do not know what film or video choices mean. Please be patient; some of us are not experts and trying to learn. Thank you.

Because film is 24 frames/sec and video is 60 frames/sec, there isn't an easy way to display film on a video device without messing up the framerate. So the "film" setting attempts to smooth out the process by doing what is called a 3:2 pulldown. This is only for sources that are filmed based. If you process video based content with film's 3:2 pulldown, you will mess up the framerate and will degrade the picture.

On most commercial DVD's the selection of which mode to use is flagged in the DVD data and is automatically chosen by the 'Auto" setting. For some commercial DVD's and most home videos, the flag is not set, so they require you to "force" the 'Film' or 'Video' setting. 9 times out of 10, you can set it to 'Auto' and forget it.
smackman1's Avatar smackman1
11:46 AM Liked: 10
post #7 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Do you own Van Helsing?

If not - can you rent it?

The first 5 to 7 minutes of the film are in B&W. Try all the different setting during that sequence and watch what they are doing to the image . . .

I am sorry as I do not understand your answer. I guess you are saying a B&W picture will show the differences in settings. I am a Rookie HD-DVD player owner. I will figure this out but no I do not own Van Helsing and in all honesty I have never heard of him. Maybe I am to old? (50)
Jgatie's Avatar Jgatie
11:53 AM Liked: 10
post #8 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 1,566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackman1 View Post

I am sorry as I do not understand your answer. I guess you are saying a B&W picture will show the differences in settings. I am a Rookie HD-DVD player owner. I will figure this out but no I do not own Van Helsing and in all honesty I have never heard of him. Maybe I am to old? (50)

The original Van Helsing is just a little older than you. He was 'born' in 1887, and his 'daddy' was a guy named Bram Stoker. You might know him better for another guy he gave 'rebirth' to the same year, a thirsty little fella named Dracula.

However, I'm sure the poster was speaking of the movie Van Helsing (IMDB Link), which can be used to distinguish problems between the 'Video' and 'Film' settings because of unique scenes in the first minutes (If you can bear a few minutes. Atrociously bad movie!!).
Lee Stewart's Avatar Lee Stewart
12:05 PM Liked: 44
post #9 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 19,369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackman1 View Post

I am sorry as I do not understand your answer. I guess you are saying a B&W picture will show the differences in settings. I am a Rookie HD-DVD player owner. I will figure this out but no I do not own Van Helsing and in all honesty I have never heard of him. Maybe I am to old? (50)

"Van Helsing" is a movie starring Hugh Jackman.

I chose it because of the B&W sequence. I believe there is another movie called "Good Night and . . . (something)" which is all B&W.

You need to look at B&W to see if any of these setting are screwing around with the Color Temperature and Tint. B&W is supposed to be B&W. NOT dark green amd light green or dark blue and light blue or dark red and light red.

The only way to get the very best Contrast Ratio (produces the "pop" or "3D Effect" is to make sure that Black is Black and White is White.

I would prefer you do these tests yourself. If these 2 HD titles are not available - try TCM on CBL/SAT or a DVD that is B&W.

Any setting on the display that changes B&W to something else is only degrading the image.

I can't stress enough how important it is to do a calibration on your display to set the adjustments to proper levels - this gains you max image quality. All the Star Wars movies and many Disney movies have the THX Optomizer program on them - a great place to start.
smackman1's Avatar smackman1
12:33 PM Liked: 10
post #10 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 293
Joined: Dec 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

"Van Helsing" is a movie starring Hugh Jackman.

I chose it because of the B&W sequence. I believe there is another movie called "Good Night and . . . (something)" which is all B&W.

You need to look at B&W to see if any of these setting are screwing around with the Color Temperature and Tint. B&W is supposed to be B&W. NOT dark green amd light green or dark blue and light blue or dark red and light red.

The only way to get the very best Contrast Ratio (produces the "pop" or "3D Effect" is to make sure that Black is Black and White is White.

I would prefer you do these tests yourself. If these 2 HD titles are not available - try TCM on CBL/SAT or a DVD that is B&W.

Any setting on the display that changes B&W to something else is only degrading the image.

I can't stress enough how important it is to do a calibration on your display to set the adjustments to proper levels - this gains you max image quality. All the Star Wars movies and many Disney movies have the THX Optomizer program on them - a great place to start.

I actually have a ISF Calibrator coming in early December. (Craig I Rounds). I am excited about this because I live in a remote location where no on locally does this. I have read this Craig is really good. I have a Mitsubishi 55" CRT RPTV. (WS-55517). I ask my local Mitsubishi serviceman about hiring a Pro to Calibrate my RPTV when my DM board was replaced under extended warranty. He said it was a waste of time and money and the factory settings were the best it can get. He even said cleaning the lenses and mirror were a waste of time unless you are a smoker. I actually cleaned my lenses myself after he left. It made a big difference and my RPTV is only 18 months old. (and I do not smoke). I know this serviceman is not knowledgeable at all about Calibrations.
I have done THX Optimizer on Pirates of the Carribean on SDVD. I have never entered the Service Menu. Thanks for the info. and I am looking forward to my Calibration of my RPTV for the first time.
Lee Stewart's Avatar Lee Stewart
12:49 PM Liked: 44
post #11 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 19,369
Joined: Feb 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by smackman1 View Post

I actually have a ISF Calibrator coming in early December. (Craig I Rounds). I am excited about this because I live in a remote location where no on locally does this. I have read this Craig is really good. I have a Mitsubishi 55" CRT RPTV. (WS-55517). I ask my local Mitsubishi serviceman about hiring a Pro to Calibrate my RPTV when my DM board was replaced under extended warranty. He said it was a waste of time and money and the factory settings were the best it can get. He even said cleaning the lenses and mirror were a waste of time unless you are a smoker. I actually cleaned my lenses myself after he left. It made a big difference and my RPTV is only 18 months old. (and I do not smoke). I know this serviceman is not knowledgeable at all about Calibrations.
I have done THX Optimizer on Pirates of the Carribean on SDVD. I have never entered the Service Menu. Thanks for the info. and I am looking forward to my Calibration of my RPTV for the first time.

I am a BIG believer of Pro. Cal. (my 5053 is my 3rd).

There is a BIG difference between what you can do with 5 or 6 adjustments and your eyes versus what a pro can do with about $10,000 worth of analyzer equipment - the Service Menu (STAY OUT OF), the Service Manual, and the experience of doing it for a living.

And you have to add Convergence to the adjustments which is not easy to do and get 99% correct.

Plus the Colorimeter he will use is about 200X more sensitive to color change then your eyes are.
kevivoe's Avatar kevivoe
02:19 PM Liked: 11
post #12 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 2,831
Joined: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgatie View Post

The original Van Helsing is just a little older than you. He was 'born' in 1887, and his 'daddy' was a guy named Bram Stoker. You might know him better for another guy he gave 'rebirth' to the same year, a thirsty little fella named Dracula.

However, I'm sure the poster was speaking of the movie Van Helsing (IMDB Link), which can be used to distinguish problems between the 'Video' and 'Film' settings because of unique scenes in the first minutes (If you can bear a few minutes. Atrociously bad movie!!).

What? A very good movie and great in HD!
Jgatie's Avatar Jgatie
02:23 PM Liked: 10
post #13 of 27
11-19-2007 | Posts: 1,566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevivoe View Post

What? A very good movie and great in HD!

Our tastes differ. I found it unwatchable even though I like Jackman and would watch Beckinsale read the phonebook for two hours. I also love a good cheesy monster movie. Oh well.
Snake2715's Avatar Snake2715
12:45 PM Liked: 10
post #14 of 27
12-12-2007 | Posts: 8
Joined: Oct 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgatie View Post

Because film is 24 frames/sec and video is 60 frames/sec, there isn't an easy way to display film on a video device without messing up the framerate. So the "film" setting attempts to smooth out the process by doing what is called a 3:2 pulldown. This is only for sources that are filmed based. If you process video based content with film's 3:2 pulldown, you will mess up the framerate and will degrade the picture.

On most commercial DVD's the selection of which mode to use is flagged in the DVD data and is automatically chosen by the 'Auto" setting. For some commercial DVD's and most home videos, the flag is not set, so they require you to "force" the 'Film' or 'Video' setting. 9 times out of 10, you can set it to 'Auto' and forget it.

This is good info thanks.
Stephen Tu's Avatar Stephen Tu
08:17 PM Liked: 10
post #15 of 27
12-12-2007 | Posts: 1,109
Joined: May 1999
Quote:


What mode should Shrek the third HD be in? Film, Video or Auto? I have a HD-A2.
If someone could explain these setting I would appreciate it. I have read that Auto at times does not detect properly. Does this setting really matter?

For HD-DVD content, on the A2, this setting doesn't matter whatsoever, it just doesn't apply.

The setting is solely to set the deinterlacing mode for standard DVDs, if output res at something other than 480i. As stated, 95% of the time set it to auto and forget about it, however

Quote:


Because film is 24 frames/sec and video is 60 frames/sec, there isn't an easy way to display film on a video device without messing up the framerate. So the "film" setting attempts to smooth out the process by doing what is called a 3:2 pulldown. This is only for sources that are filmed based. If you process video based content with film's 3:2 pulldown, you will mess up the framerate and will degrade the picture

is a totally inaccurate explanation what is going on. For a real explanation, read the Secret of Home Theater article on progressive scan DVD. Film mode deinterlacing is either detecting the 3:2 cadence by examining the decoder output, or looking at flags in the MPEG data, then intelligently recombining the fields to recover the original frames. Trying to do this with video source material doesn't "mess up the frame rate", what it does is cause combing artifacts from combining fields that belonged to different frames, when an object in the frame moves. So if you are seeing such artifacts in your video based material (some, not all TV shows, sporting events, concert videos, etc.), then you can force video mode to avoid them.
AJ_Syrinx's Avatar AJ_Syrinx
09:55 PM Liked: 10
post #16 of 27
12-12-2007 | Posts: 242
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smackman1 View Post

What mode should Shrek the third HD be in?

That movie is so bad it should be in "coaster mode"
MikeKuchiki's Avatar MikeKuchiki
01:32 AM Liked: 10
post #17 of 27
12-13-2007 | Posts: 13
Joined: Dec 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgatie View Post

Because film is 24 frames/sec and video is 60 frames/sec, there isn't an easy way to display film on a video device without messing up the framerate. So the "film" setting attempts to smooth out the process by doing what is called a 3:2 pulldown. This is only for sources that are filmed based. If you process video based content with film's 3:2 pulldown, you will mess up the framerate and will degrade the picture.

On most commercial DVD's the selection of which mode to use is flagged in the DVD data and is automatically chosen by the 'Auto" setting. For some commercial DVD's and most home videos, the flag is not set, so they require you to "force" the 'Film' or 'Video' setting. 9 times out of 10, you can set it to 'Auto' and forget it.

This post was very helpful I always wondered what the heck they meant.
Jgatie's Avatar Jgatie
09:12 AM Liked: 10
post #18 of 27
12-13-2007 | Posts: 1,566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Tu View Post

For HD-DVD content, on the A2, this setting doesn't matter whatsoever, it just doesn't apply.

The setting is solely to set the deinterlacing mode for standard DVDs, if output res at something other than 480i. As stated, 95% of the time set it to auto and forget about it, however



is a totally inaccurate explanation what is going on. For a real explanation, read the Secret of Home Theater article on progressive scan DVD. Film mode deinterlacing is either detecting the 3:2 cadence by examining the decoder output, or looking at flags in the MPEG data, then intelligently recombining the fields to recover the original frames. Trying to do this with video source material doesn't "mess up the frame rate", what it does is cause combing artifacts from combining fields that belonged to different frames, when an object in the frame moves. So if you are seeing such artifacts in your video based material (some, not all TV shows, sporting events, concert videos, etc.), then you can force video mode to avoid them.

Thank you Professor Pedantic. Ever hear of the concept of K.I.S.S?
nzk's Avatar nzk
09:15 AM Liked: 10
post #19 of 27
12-13-2007 | Posts: 232
Joined: Sep 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart View Post

Do you own Van Helsing?

If not - can you rent it?

The first 5 to 7 minutes of the film are in B&W. Try all the different setting during that sequence and watch what they are doing to the image . . .

Why not just turn down your television's color to zero on any movie?
Morpheo's Avatar Morpheo
09:20 AM Liked: 341
post #20 of 27
12-13-2007 | Posts: 6,703
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jgatie View Post

Our tastes differ. I found it unwatchable even though I like Jackman and would watch Beckinsale read the phonebook for two hours. I also love a good cheesy monster movie. Oh well.

... I did like the movie. Not a masterpiece, but certainly watchable. And just like you said, anything starring Kate Beckinsale is worth waching anyway!
Stephen Tu's Avatar Stephen Tu
10:56 AM Liked: 10
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12-13-2007 | Posts: 1,109
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Quote:


Ever hear of the concept of K.I.S.S?

Sure. But keeping it simple is not the same as spewing total nonsense.
Jgatie's Avatar Jgatie
11:08 AM Liked: 10
post #22 of 27
12-13-2007 | Posts: 1,566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Tu View Post

Sure. But keeping it simple is not the same as spewing total nonsense.

So simplifying "what it does is cause combing artifacts from combining fields that belonged to different frames, when an object in the frame moves" as messing up the framerate is incorrect? So what exactly is "combining fields that belonged to different frames" if it isn't messing with the framerate? Seems to me if you are displaying incorrect frames or combining frames into one, then the framerate is probably being disturbed somewhat, n'est-ce pas?
Stephen Tu's Avatar Stephen Tu
12:09 PM Liked: 10
post #23 of 27
12-13-2007 | Posts: 1,109
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Quote:


So what exactly is "combining fields that belonged to different frames" if it isn't messing with the framerate?

No, it has absolutely zero effect on frame rate. Other than the newest sets that accept 1080p at 24hz, TVs in NTSC countries only accept frames(progressive) or fields (interlaced) at 60hz. If the frame rate was messed with, the TV wouldn't be able to display anything at all! NTSC DVDs are encoded for output at 60 fields per second, interlaced to match this requirement. For film sourced DVDs, typically you have 48 fields/sec stored on disc corresponding to the original 24 film frames along with flags that tell the MPEG decoder to repeat 12 of them to get up to 60 (thus performing the 3:2 pulldown). The progressive scan player, in film mode deinterlacing mode, has to reverse this process, to get the original 24 frames, then scales (if also upconverting), then it has to do frame repetition to get back up to 60 hz.

For video material, you start with 60 fields per second. Video mode deinterlacing will use a combination of merging fields/interpolation within a field to convert this to 60 frames per second. Now if the disc's encoding is seriously screwed up & causes the player to treat video as film, then you end up combining fields that don't belong together, the content of your frame looks messed up, but the end frame rate is still 60 fps as always.
Jgatie's Avatar Jgatie
08:46 PM Liked: 10
post #24 of 27
12-13-2007 | Posts: 1,566
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Tu View Post

No, it has absolutely zero effect on frame rate. Other than the newest sets that accept 1080p at 24hz, TVs in NTSC countries only accept frames(progressive) or fields (interlaced) at 60hz. If the frame rate was messed with, the TV wouldn't be able to display anything at all! NTSC DVDs are encoded for output at 60 fields per second, interlaced to match this requirement. For film sourced DVDs, typically you have 48 fields/sec stored on disc corresponding to the original 24 film frames along with flags that tell the MPEG decoder to repeat 12 of them to get up to 60 (thus performing the 3:2 pulldown). The progressive scan player, in film mode deinterlacing mode, has to reverse this process, to get the original 24 frames, then scales (if also upconverting), then it has to do frame repetition to get back up to 60 hz.

For video material, you start with 60 fields per second. Video mode deinterlacing will use a combination of merging fields/interpolation within a field to convert this to 60 frames per second. Now if the disc's encoding is seriously screwed up & causes the player to treat video as film, then you end up combining fields that don't belong together, the content of your frame looks messed up, but the end frame rate is still 60 fps as always.

That's refresh rate of the display, of course that is constant (Duh!!). I was talking about the frame rate of the original film source vs. video. All I was trying to do is explain that film based sources require 3:2 pulldown to account for the original framerate of 24 fps, which video does not, and sometimes the flags for each are incorrect or the player does not sense it correctly, causing them to be displayed incorrectly, given their original framerate. Sheesh!!
eapleitez's Avatar eapleitez
11:56 PM Liked: 15
post #25 of 27
12-13-2007 | Posts: 2,472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJ_Syrinx View Post

That movie is so bad it should be in "coaster mode"

Shrek 3 is not a bad movie. Bad movies are fare such as: Batman and Robin, Dungeons and Dragons, Charlie's Angels (esp #2!), Titus, Red Dawn

Shrek 3 is fairly entertaining, if not as original as the first two.
Star56's Avatar Star56
01:58 AM Liked: 12
post #26 of 27
12-14-2007 | Posts: 3,491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eapleitez View Post

Shrek 3 is not a bad movie. Bad movies are fare such as: Red Dawn

Oh boy...don't get me started here. A few years ago we had a long thread debating the merits of this fine movie. I consider it a classic. The battle tactics are authentic and the notion of high school kids fighting a successful insurgency against a major invading army is not so absurd anymore.
bifocalprojector's Avatar bifocalprojector
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01-20-2008 | Posts: 218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Star56 View Post

Oh boy...don't get me started here. A few years ago we had a long thread debating the merits of this fine movie. I consider it a classic. The battle tactics are authentic and the notion of high school kids fighting a successful insurgency against a major invading army is not so absurd anymore.

I also loved Red Dawn.... when is it expected to be released on Blu-ray?

In fact, if every law-abiding adult US citizen is required to keep guns at home,
what foreign enemy will dare to invade the US?
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