How come some movies wont upconvert with XA2? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 01-10-2008, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi guys,
I have an XA2 and love it and it does a fine job of upconverting but some movies wont. Star Trek The Motion Picture for instance, when i put it in its says cannot upconvert and is now playing at 480i. I have my XA2 set at 1080P/24. Could that be the problem, should I set it to 1080i for these movies? Any info would be great.

George
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post #2 of 22 Old 01-10-2008, 08:21 PM
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Are you using the HDMI connection? HD DVD players will only upconvert standard DVDs through the HDMI connection. The only time I ever got that message was using component on my RPCRT.

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post #3 of 22 Old 01-10-2008, 08:25 PM
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How do you have the player hooked up. As it should upconvert everything over HDMI. If your using commponet (green,red,Blue RCA's). Then only select movies will. Basicly homemade movies or dvds with out anti-copy..
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post #4 of 22 Old 01-10-2008, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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im using HDMI straight into my 40 XBR4. George
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post #5 of 22 Old 01-10-2008, 09:15 PM
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I have an A35 and it will upconvert all star trek movies to 1080i for my tv. I dont see why it would affect it but it wouldnt hurt to try it on 1080i
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-10-2008, 10:18 PM
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My A2 won't upconvert the Firefly DVDs. Same message.
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post #7 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 06:40 AM
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I have seen reference to some of the newer SD DVDs being rigged to prohibit any kind of upconversion. I don't know for sure if that's true.

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post #8 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 07:29 AM
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I have also seen the message and then always had them go a head and upconvert anyway over HDMI.

You have verified it actually is sending 480 to the display?
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post #9 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 07:33 AM
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Yeah, well, that's interesting John. The info button on the Toshiba and on my display both say 1080i, BUT, it (Firefly) looked like crap. I compared it to the same disk playing from my HTPC (same HDMI connection, same display) and it looked much worse.

I've compared the two with other disks and they are very close, with a slight edge to the HTPC.
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post #10 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 07:50 AM
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It's scaling it still.
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post #11 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 07:56 AM
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I'm having a pretty similar experiance. I put Rounders (standard dvd) into my HD-A2 the other night and a message popped up stating the disk would not be upconverted and the max resolution was going to be 480i (maybe it said 480p, can't remember). It also displayed the movie in a tiny box in the center of my tv.

The movie is in a Widescreen format, yet I had bars all the way around the movie. I have the A2 connected to a Samsung HD LCD tv via HDMI.

I turned the player off and disconnected the HDMI and hooked it up via component cables and powered the player back up. The picture was then being displayed in the widescreen format.

Anyone know what could be going on here?
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post #12 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 08:07 AM
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The box all the way around would typically indicate a not enhanced for widescreen movie.

Some more investigation would be needed. I have seen this message a few times on my A2 but not once have had it do anything other than still scale properly.
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post #13 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 08:12 AM
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I thought the same thing until I looked at the box and it says "Digitally Enhanced, Widescreen version". I believe the film was recorded in a 2.35:1 aspect ratio.

I also have the A2 set for resolutions up to 1080i, as that is the highest my tv will display (with the native being 720p).
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 08:50 AM
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Widescreen does not mean it is a anamorphic version. You need look for explicit words like "anamorphic" or "16:9 enhanced". There are quite a few old widescreen DVDs out there that are non-anamorphic. That's why you see black bars on all 4 sides.

As for OP's question, try turn off 1080p/24 and see what happens. I read it does not always work for SD DVDs.
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post #15 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 09:18 AM
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Thanks for the answer Foxbat, I don't doubt what you are saying.

I do however have to ask, why would the screen size change to widescreen when I switch to using component cables (I only have bars on the top and bottom of the screen)? Still
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post #16 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD*guru View Post

I'm having a pretty similar experiance. I put Rounders (standard dvd) into my HD-A2 the other night and a message popped up stating the disk would not be upconverted and the max resolution was going to be 480i (maybe it said 480p, can't remember). It also displayed the movie in a tiny box in the center of my tv.

The movie is in a Widescreen format, yet I had bars all the way around the movie. I have the A2 connected to a Samsung HD LCD tv via HDMI.

I turned the player off and disconnected the HDMI and hooked it up via component cables and powered the player back up. The picture was then being displayed in the widescreen format.

Anyone know what could be going on here?

Its probably a non-anamorphic DVD (the wide screen video and top/bottom bars are recorded to fit a 4:3 screens, I don’t have the links handy, but Google anamorphic DVD for info)

Using component, the video is sent to your TV as 480p and the TV is scaling to the 16:9 screen (using whatever method its set to). If you set the A2 to 480p, then the TV should do the same thing over HDMI, although some TVs have less scaling modes than available over component. I know just enough to be dangerous here.

The HD-DVD players don't appear to be able to scale non anamorphic DVDs to fill the 16:9 screen. I guess the player doesn't know where the picture stops and the bars begin (anamorphic DVDs do not record bars with the video and squeeze pixels to improve resolution on 16:9 sets)... but some TV appears to work it out (an some SD-DVD players perhaps).

The labeling of DVDs is not consistent across producers, I saw a guide somewhere. I think there is only one producer you can trust to label correctly and consistently, others are one of those try it to find out kind of things. I hate when that happens. Some DVD reviews will specify if the video is anamorphic or not... and as others have mentioned, a widescreen label does not mean 16:9 on the DVD. If the lable says enhanced for 16:9 or anamorphic then there's a good chance the player will play the DVD without the side bars.

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post #17 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD*guru View Post

Thanks for the answer Foxbat, I don't doubt what you are saying.

I do however have to ask, why would the screen size change to widescreen when I switch to using component cables (I only have bars on the top and bottom of the screen)? Still

I would say it is because your display is doing it for you on the component connection. Often aspect ratio control can be hampered or lost entirely on HDMI.

On the component connection it would drop to 480 and most displays allow full aspect control on that resolution.
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 10:10 AM
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Thanks to both ColdCase and JOHNnDENVER, I now understand (for the most part) why this happened.
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post #19 of 22 Old 01-11-2008, 10:14 AM
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Since changing my connection from component to HDMI, I have occasionally seen the "limited to 480i" or whatever-it-says message several times, usually after a picture adjustment of some sort which apparently required another "handshake" betwee my pj and the XA2. In every case I looked at the XA2's display and it still said 1080p, and to my eyes the pj was still projecting 1080p (high-quality upconversion of SD).

I never saw this with Component. The msg is disconcerting but I've learned to ignore it.
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post #20 of 22 Old 01-12-2008, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOHNnDENVER View Post

I would say it is because your display is doing it for you on the component connection. Often aspect ratio control can be hampered or lost entirely on HDMI.

HDMI still usually allows zooming and aspect ratio control if the signal sent to the display is 480i or 480p. When I have a non-anamorphic widescreen DVD, I set the player to 480p so the TV can zoom it.
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post #21 of 22 Old 01-12-2008, 05:48 AM
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Most New TVs now allow aspect ratio control on any signal over HDMI. The other difference is that analog connections (component, composite) also support an additional ID1 flag in the signal so that a player can tell what AR it expects TV to use. HDMI/DVI does not have this flag anymore.

OP's problem seems related to HDCP handshake issue. If your player can't detect HDCP or HDCP handshake briefly failed, you get the message. Players suppose to initiate HDCP handshake very frequently (every second or so).
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post #22 of 22 Old 01-12-2008, 02:59 PM
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1080P/24 not compatible with video source DVDs, from TV shows. They're encoded at 30 frames per second, not 24 frames as Movies are.

You must change between the settings when using video source or film source material. Or leave in 1080P/60 all the time.

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