Question for Robert of Value Electronics - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 132 Old 01-19-2008, 07:30 PM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mw390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Levittown, NY
Posts: 376
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi,

I check this and other websites daily and during the whole CES debacle I didn't notice any postings from you. My question basically is...what did you hear or learn from Toshiba, the studios, your "Deep Throat" if you have one. Just what is going on? Is Toshiba really committed to pressing on, why haven't the studios been releasing more titles (Star Trek, etc). Sony's been pushing any old crap out ("Good Luck Chuck"). And as for standalones, did the BDs outpace the HDs during December. Alot to answer. Thanks in advance.
mw390 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 132 Old 01-19-2008, 08:55 PM
 
DTV TiVo Dealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scarsdale, NY
Posts: 4,878
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Toshiba was as shocked as anyone to hear about Warner's decision so it took them by surprise.

Their exhibit showed two new HD DVD applications, chat between two networked HD DVD players and animation figures that were singing and playing musical instruments in exact sync to a HD DVD disc playing Jazz music. Both looked very cool.

Mark Knox and several other HD DVD product managers and specialists supported the booth floor duty to answer questions and participate in demonstrations that ran all day long throughout the show. Jodi Sally spent a lot of time in dealer meetings and on the floor doing press interviews. I spent some time with Jodi and Toshiba's senior management and staff. The mood was surprisingly up beat and they all assured me that they are committed to the format and were working closely with the other HD DVD partners to build the format.

No one was trying to fool themselves or me as they all clearly admitted this was a big blow to HD DVD, but they were staying the course and would put every effort to continue to win the format dispute.

I was told they would likely have a price adjustment to keep player sales strong and would be actively negotiating with the software suppliers to release more catalog titles. I can't say what all of their plans are as they are rapidly being developed so plans can and do change quickly.

Title releases take quite a bit of time to come to market as contracts and mastering and final replication is a slow process. So don't expect to see many unexpected new titles for a few months.

4th gen players were never planned for CES, but more firmware upgrades are planned. The next gen players are expected in Q3 '08.

Personally and professionally I am saddened by Warner's decision as I believe this decision may actually lead to the demise of both HD optical formats. Here's why. BD hardware and software is expensive and now with less competition I do not expect to see the prices being forced to drop as quickly. So the average consumer is not going to be compelled to buy into a high priced device and high priced software. To me Warner made a bad decision that was very short sited.

HD DVD has always enjoyed a big hardware and software price advantage and was pushing BD to improve their product features, reliability and hopefully bring their prices in line. Sorry to see this turn out this way as I think no one will be a winner in the end.

The next frontier is Hollywood movies on flash memory cards and or download HD content.

-Robert
DTV TiVo Dealer is offline  
post #3 of 132 Old 01-19-2008, 09:23 PM
Advanced Member
 
Customgamer1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 740
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Toshiba was as shocked as anyone to hear about Warner's decision so it took them by surprise.

Their exhibit showed two new HD DVD applications, chat between two networked HD DVD players and animation figures that were singing and playing musical instruments in exact sync to a HD DVD disc playing Jazz music. Both looked very cool.

Mark Knox and several other HD DVD product managers and specialists supported the booth floor duty to answer questions and participate in demonstrations that ran all day long throughout the show. Jodi Sally spent a lot of time in dealer meetings and on the floor doing press interviews. I spent some time with Jodi and Toshiba's senior management and staff. The mood was surprisingly up beat and they all assured me that they are committed to the format and were working closely with the other HD DVD partners to build the format.

No one was trying to fool themselves or me as they all clearly admitted this was a big blow to HD DVD, but they were staying the course and would put every effort to continue to win the format dispute.

I was told they would likely have a price adjustment to keep player sales strong and would be actively negotiating with the software suppliers to release more catalog titles. I can't say what all of their plans are as they are rapidly being developed so plans can and do change quickly.

Title releases take quite a bit of time to come to market as contracts and mastering and final replication is a slow process. So don't expect to see many unexpected new titles for a few months.

4th gen players were never planned for CES, but more firmware upgrades are planned. The next gen players are expected in Q3 '08.

Personally and professionally I am saddened by Warner's decision as I believe this decision may actually lead to the demise of both HD optical formats. Here's why. BD hardware and software is expensive and now with less competition I do not expect to see the prices being forced to drop as quickly. So the average consumer is not going to be compelled to buy into a high priced device and high priced software. To me Warner made a bad decision that was very short sited.

HD DVD has always enjoyed a big hardware and software price advantage and was pushing BD to improve their product features, reliability and hopefully bring their prices in line. Sorry to see this turn out this way as I think no one will be a winner in the end.

The next frontier is Hollywood movies on flash memory cards and or download HD content.

-Robert

Yep I agree! Sony and the BDA will keep prices as high as possible because they can. I really hope the Toshiba low price com back can do something to increase sales!
Customgamer1 is offline  
post #4 of 132 Old 01-19-2008, 10:51 PM
Senior Member
 
dazed_n_confuzed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Toshiba was as shocked as anyone to hear about Warner's decision so it took them by surprise.....HD DVD has always enjoyed a big hardware and software price advantage and was pushing BD to improve their product features, reliability and hopefully bring their prices in line. Sorry to see this turn out this way as I think no one will be a winner in the end.

The next frontier is Hollywood movies on flash memory cards and or download HD content.

-Robert

Robert,

I am continually impressed at your approach in dealing with everyone here at AVS. Your insight and professionalism are top notch. I to believe that if HD-DVD is slowing going the way of the dinosaur the Blu-ray camp will not have any incentive in reducing their pricing structure or even improving their players and features. I sure hope that the tide will turn and HD-DVD will still be a viable and prosperous format for which will help US (the consumer) in the long run all the way around.

Thanks again Robert.

dazed

Living up to my user name.

"Put a nuke down a bug hole and you got a lot of dead bugs...." Starship Troopers
dazed_n_confuzed is offline  
post #5 of 132 Old 01-19-2008, 11:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Tim Glover's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: West Monroe, LA
Posts: 1,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Robert's a good guy.
Tim Glover is offline  
post #6 of 132 Old 01-19-2008, 11:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tripleM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Glover View Post

Robert's a good guy.

OBVIOUS STATEMENT...BUT STILL TRUE

Panasonic TC-P60ST60 + Sony STR-DG810 + LG BH200 + JBL L830's x2 + JBL LC1 + JBL Loft40 x 2 + Polk PSW10 + Harmony One
tripleM is offline  
post #7 of 132 Old 01-19-2008, 11:07 PM
Senior Member
 
nineteen70's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 429
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Toshiba was as shocked as anyone to hear about Warner's decision so it took them by surprise.

Their exhibit showed two new HD DVD applications, chat between two networked HD DVD players and animation figures that were singing and playing musical instruments in exact sync to a HD DVD disc playing Jazz music. Both looked very cool.

Mark Knox and several other HD DVD product managers and specialists supported the booth floor duty to answer questions and participate in demonstrations that ran all day long throughout the show. Jodi Sally spent a lot of time in dealer meetings and on the floor doing press interviews. I spent some time with Jodi and Toshiba's senior management and staff. The mood was surprisingly up beat and they all assured me that they are committed to the format and were working closely with the other HD DVD partners to build the format.

No one was trying to fool themselves or me as they all clearly admitted this was a big blow to HD DVD, but they were staying the course and would put every effort to continue to win the format dispute.

I was told they would likely have a price adjustment to keep player sales strong and would be actively negotiating with the software suppliers to release more catalog titles. I can't say what all of their plans are as they are rapidly being developed so plans can and do change quickly.

Title releases take quite a bit of time to come to market as contracts and mastering and final replication is a slow process. So don't expect to see many unexpected new titles for a few months.

4th gen players were never planned for CES, but more firmware upgrades are planned. The next gen players are expected in Q3 '08.

Personally and professionally I am saddened by Warner's decision as I believe this decision may actually lead to the demise of both HD optical formats. Here's why. BD hardware and software is expensive and now with less competition I do not expect to see the prices being forced to drop as quickly. So the average consumer is not going to be compelled to buy into a high priced device and high priced software. To me Warner made a bad decision that was very short sited.

HD DVD has always enjoyed a big hardware and software price advantage and was pushing BD to improve their product features, reliability and hopefully bring their prices in line. Sorry to see this turn out this way as I think no one will be a winner in the end.

The next frontier is Hollywood movies on flash memory cards and or download HD content.

-Robert


thanks for the info.I to hope HD can stay a while
nineteen70 is offline  
post #8 of 132 Old 01-19-2008, 11:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
rveras's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Haverhill, MA
Posts: 1,745
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Toshiba was as shocked as anyone to hear about Warner's decision so it took them by surprise.

Their exhibit showed two new HD DVD applications, chat between two networked HD DVD players and animation figures that were singing and playing musical instruments in exact sync to a HD DVD disc playing Jazz music. Both looked very cool.

Mark Knox and several other HD DVD product managers and specialists supported the booth floor duty to answer questions and participate in demonstrations that ran all day long throughout the show. Jodi Sally spent a lot of time in dealer meetings and on the floor doing press interviews. I spent some time with Jodi and Toshiba's senior management and staff. The mood was surprisingly up beat and they all assured me that they are committed to the format and were working closely with the other HD DVD partners to build the format.

No one was trying to fool themselves or me as they all clearly admitted this was a big blow to HD DVD, but they were staying the course and would put every effort to continue to win the format dispute.

I was told they would likely have a price adjustment to keep player sales strong and would be actively negotiating with the software suppliers to release more catalog titles. I can't say what all of their plans are as they are rapidly being developed so plans can and do change quickly.

Title releases take quite a bit of time to come to market as contracts and mastering and final replication is a slow process. So don't expect to see many unexpected new titles for a few months.

4th gen players were never planned for CES, but more firmware upgrades are planned. The next gen players are expected in Q3 '08.

Personally and professionally I am saddened by Warner's decision as I believe this decision may actually lead to the demise of both HD optical formats. Here's why. BD hardware and software is expensive and now with less competition I do not expect to see the prices being forced to drop as quickly. So the average consumer is not going to be compelled to buy into a high priced device and high priced software. To me Warner made a bad decision that was very short sited.

HD DVD has always enjoyed a big hardware and software price advantage and was pushing BD to improve their product features, reliability and hopefully bring their prices in line. Sorry to see this turn out this way as I think no one will be a winner in the end.

The next frontier is Hollywood movies on flash memory cards and or download HD content.

-Robert



Hardware yes and only because of Blu-ray existed. When the A2 was released the MSRP was $499.99. The price was then set to $300 later on just to keep competing with Blu-ray. I personally believe that if Blu-ray never existed the HD-DVD players would have cost about the same as the Blu-ray players right now. Second software replication was cheaper but prices at the store were the same as Blu-ray discs so for the consumer HD-DVD didn't have any software price advantage over Blu-ray.

The only reason I think HD-DVD lost was because the BDA did a better job at marketing and also Disney/Fox released more blockbuster movies towards the end. If it wasn't for the commiment of Disney/Fox Blu-ray would have been dead by now I think.
rveras is offline  
post #9 of 132 Old 01-19-2008, 11:29 PM
AVS Special Member
 
tripleM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,052
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by rveras View Post

Hardware yes and only because of Blu-ray existed. When the A2 was released the MSRP was $499.99. The price was then set to $300 later on just to keep competing with Blu-ray. I personally believe that if
Blu-ray never existed the HD-DVD player would cost about the same as the Blu-ray players right now. Second software replication was cheaper but prices at the store were the same as Blu-ray discs so for the consumer HD-DVD didn't have any software price advantage over Blu-ray.

Isn't HD cheaper to produce?

Panasonic TC-P60ST60 + Sony STR-DG810 + LG BH200 + JBL L830's x2 + JBL LC1 + JBL Loft40 x 2 + Polk PSW10 + Harmony One
tripleM is offline  
post #10 of 132 Old 01-19-2008, 11:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Desert Heat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 481
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Toshiba was as shocked as anyone to hear about Warner's decision so it took them by surprise.

Their exhibit showed two new HD DVD applications, chat between two networked HD DVD players and animation figures that were singing and playing musical instruments in exact sync to a HD DVD disc playing Jazz music. Both looked very cool.

Mark Knox and several other HD DVD product managers and specialists supported the booth floor duty to answer questions and participate in demonstrations that ran all day long throughout the show. Jodi Sally spent a lot of time in dealer meetings and on the floor doing press interviews. I spent some time with Jodi and Toshiba's senior management and staff. The mood was surprisingly up beat and they all assured me that they are committed to the format and were working closely with the other HD DVD partners to build the format.

No one was trying to fool themselves or me as they all clearly admitted this was a big blow to HD DVD, but they were staying the course and would put every effort to continue to win the format dispute.

I was told they would likely have a price adjustment to keep player sales strong and would be actively negotiating with the software suppliers to release more catalog titles. I can't say what all of their plans are as they are rapidly being developed so plans can and do change quickly.

Title releases take quite a bit of time to come to market as contracts and mastering and final replication is a slow process. So don't expect to see many unexpected new titles for a few months.

4th gen players were never planned for CES, but more firmware upgrades are planned. The next gen players are expected in Q3 '08.

Personally and professionally I am saddened by Warner's decision as I believe this decision may actually lead to the demise of both HD optical formats. Here's why. BD hardware and software is expensive and now with less competition I do not expect to see the prices being forced to drop as quickly. So the average consumer is not going to be compelled to buy into a high priced device and high priced software. To me Warner made a bad decision that was very short sited.

HD DVD has always enjoyed a big hardware and software price advantage and was pushing BD to improve their product features, reliability and hopefully bring their prices in line. Sorry to see this turn out this way as I think no one will be a winner in the end.

The next frontier is Hollywood movies on flash memory cards and or download HD content.

-Robert

Thanks for this insight Robert, I enjoy reading your posts. My question to you is why do you think Toshiba has not utilized a strategy of fighting back. They seem to generally have a good stragety of getting harware out to the market and so forth but the difference is Sony is taking the fight direct to the format, i.e. 11th hour warner defection with pre-ces anouncement, ps3, etc. Why doesn't toshiba employ similar tactics? Are they just too nice??...... or simply do not have enough ammunition? Seems like the one card they have they do not play. They could have used the combo format as a trogen horse to line up a user base of millions upon millions while they continue to lower the price of hardware and putting boxes in the same homes that are buying the combos.....for the life of me I cannot understand why this was not done early in the format war. If studio reluctance was to blame, they could have been more pursuasve to the tune of whatever amount of $ would make the studio listen and try it for a year or even 6 months. If I'm Toshiba I don't let my target studio out of the meeting room until he/she aggrees to try this approach for some amount of time.......things sure could have turned out differently.
Desert Heat is offline  
post #11 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 07:43 AM
Member
 
estoyloco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Just to quote what you just said. Your argument is somewhat flawed. From launch as I recall Toshiba was the only one on the market with BD not released. They had their A1 priced at $500. Now when BD came to market their players were $1000.

And for the most part Toshiba has always kept this half price difference for their most affordable HD DVD player model. I don't know about you but I definitely see $500 as being more affordable and capable than a $1000 player for the general public.

So yes if BD never came to light, Toshiba could have price fixed the player prices higher for longer. But isn't this exactly what we are saying about BD prices staying stagnant now? Because if there is no competition, no incentive in the HD market against BD, Sony & CE companies can price fix. Actually if you look at the new models coming up for BD players they show no sign of reduced pricing rather its the opposite.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rveras View Post

Hardware yes and only because of Blu-ray existed. When the A2 was released the MSRP was $499.99. The price was then set to $300 later on just to keep competing with Blu-ray. I personally believe that if Blu-ray never existed the HD-DVD players would have cost about the same as the Blu-ray players right now. Second software replication was cheaper but prices at the store were the same as Blu-ray discs so for the consumer HD-DVD didn't have any software price advantage over Blu-ray.

The only reason I think HD-DVD lost was because the BDA did a better job at marketing and also Disney/Fox released more blockbuster movies towards the end. If it wasn't for the commiment of Disney/Fox Blu-ray would have been dead by now I think.

estoyloco is offline  
post #12 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 07:47 AM
Member
 
estoyloco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Toshiba could have easily won this format war. But one thing and one thing alone probably stopped them. Greed.

There was no incentive to drop prices drastically when each sale could generate higher profits that was the same as the competitor. Toshiba I believe was also thinking in the short term and did not plan the longer term, thus jeopardizing their long term profits.

They could have easily made DVD/HD DVD combo disc's at the prices of regulard HD DVD. Rather they chose to charge a premium.
They could have easily made DVD/HD DVD combo format the standard, ensuring that any new movie coming out could possible come out only in this format.

If a DVD/HD DVD format was the only choice for a movie, and it worked on your regular DVD player. Don't you think the general public would still buy it if they wanted that movie, even if the price was a little higher than regular DVD?

All Toshiba had to do was put a 1 page flyer in the case, highlighting the advantage of buying a HD DVD player in DVD/HD DVD combo case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Desert Heat View Post

Thanks for this insight Robert, I enjoy reading your posts. My question to you is why do you think Toshiba has not utilized a strategy of fighting back. They seem to generally have a good stragety of getting harware out to the market and so forth but the difference is Sony is taking the fight direct to the format, i.e. 11th hour warner defection with pre-ces anouncement, ps3, etc. Why doesn't toshiba employ similar tactics? Are they just too nice??...... or simply do not have enough ammunition? Seems like the one card they have they do not play. They could have used the combo format as a trogen horse to line up a user base of millions upon millions while they continue to lower the price of hardware and putting boxes in the same homes that are buying the combos.....for the life of me I cannot understand why this was not done early in the format war. If studio reluctance was to blame, they could have been more pursuasve to the tune of whatever amount of $ would make the studio listen and try it for a year or even 6 months. If I'm Toshiba I don't let my target studio out of the meeting room until he/she aggrees to try this approach for some amount of time.......things sure could have turned out differently.

estoyloco is offline  
post #13 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 07:50 AM - Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
mw390's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Levittown, NY
Posts: 376
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks very much Robert. A very well thought out answer and probably more grounded in reality than most of the posts in this forum
mw390 is offline  
post #14 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 09:02 AM
Member
 
crassp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brazil
Posts: 126
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by estoyloco View Post

There was no incentive to drop prices drastically when each sale could generate higher profits that was the same as the competitor.

I think that nowadays all exclusivity support are paid under contract; Sony paid more for exclusivity support than Toshiba.

I don't know if was an option from Toshiba or not; this money could be used to subsidie players than exclusive support; seens they have no interest to invest in both.
crassp is offline  
post #15 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 09:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
bjmarchini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,977
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by rveras View Post

Hardware yes and only because of Blu-ray existed. When the A2 was released the MSRP was $499.99. The price was then set to $300 later on just to keep competing with Blu-ray. I personally believe that if Blu-ray never existed the HD-DVD players would have cost about the same as the Blu-ray players right now. Second software replication was cheaper but prices at the store were the same as Blu-ray discs so for the consumer HD-DVD didn't have any software price advantage over Blu-ray.

The only reason I think HD-DVD lost was because the BDA did a better job at marketing and also Disney/Fox released more blockbuster movies towards the end. If it wasn't for the commiment of Disney/Fox Blu-ray would have been dead by now I think.

I agree about the Disney issue. If you have done alot of reading on the subject, this is apparrently what swung Warner

HD DVD player sales spiked in November with the price drops from Toshiba through their retailers. Because of this growth in an HD DVD base, Fox studios began considering offering their content on HD DVD like Warner. The Bluray group tried to keep Fox inline with being BluRay exclusive. In order to keep Fox, BluRay made a drastic move and offered Fox 130 million to stay wih Bluray and $400-500 million for switching o BluRay only. Supposedly, Fox would have switched if Warner had stayed neutral.

I get tired of people saying that Sony is willing to do anything to win the format war. If they were will to do anything, they would drop a dedicated BR player to below $200 like Toshiba.

Of course the biggest loser in all of this was the consumer. When you think about it, all these payoffs to studios over the last two years could have been used to lower the price of BR and HD DVD players. Think about it. 1,000,000 / 4 million player = $250 less per player.

Or think of it this way. The BR group could have used that 650 to cut prices on BR player around $400 to $199 for about 600 million and moved 3 million more players. I think a bluray player at $199 would sell out quickly. With 3 million more units in homes, it would demand studio attention and they could have won the war. Toshiba could (and seems) to be trying this strategy. Unfortunately, I believe it is too late. I think the mistake they made was moving HD-A3 prices back up to $299 after the crazy november specials. If they kept them at $149 during the holiday season, I think things would be drastically different now. Great Idea Toshiba, lets drop the prices now when every is busy paying of christmas credit card bills and the government is warning of recession.

I agree with Robert. I think streaming media will take the place of HDM in the mainstream. I hear people gripe about bandwidth not being able to support it. Most cable companies that I have seen already can with their own services with HD movies on demand. The other people forget is that the large majority of HD displays out there are either 1080i or 720 and not 1080p. I have seen that one service is now being to offer stream HD.... at 720p. It is all about perception in the end and less about solid knowledge of technology.

I have a 92" screen and could notice the difference. How many folks with a 32-37" widescreen are gonna notice that much of a difference between 720p and 1080p. .... not many. Heck most people have convinced themself that 1080p HDM is not all that better than 480p DVDs.

HD DVD: 45 SD DVD: 350 BR: 120
PCs: 12, Mame Arcade:1, HD HTPC: 1, WHS Server: 1, HD A3: 2, HD-A30: 1

bjmarchini is offline  
post #16 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 09:12 AM
Senior Member
 
ilovenola2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: New Orleans, LA USA
Posts: 391
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by mw390 View Post

Thanks very much Robert. A very well thought out answer and probably more grounded in reality than most of the posts in this forum

Agreed! Yes, thanks, Robert, for your continued insight.
ilovenola2 is offline  
post #17 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 09:36 AM
Advanced Member
 
cdzie1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks Robert! If HD DVD makes it to 3rd quarter, but me down for one of those 4th generation players!

Maybe Microsoft will really throw their weight behind HD DVD and knock another $20 off the Xbox HD DVD drive by then…. sigh….
cdzie1 is offline  
post #18 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 11:01 AM
Senior Member
 
quikric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 385
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Glover View Post

Robert's a good guy.

+ A BIG 1!!

I support Region-Free/OAR!
quikric is offline  
post #19 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 11:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
GmanAVS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Ridgewood, NJ
Posts: 1,795
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Glover View Post

Robert's a good guy.

Yes he is. +1
GmanAVS is offline  
post #20 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 11:33 AM
Member
 
Stitchesman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 198
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks Robert! Great post.

I hope HD-DVD can hang around long enough to produce a 4th generation player. I'm curious to see what improvements, advancements, and innovations they can make.
Stitchesman is offline  
post #21 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 11:35 AM
Advanced Member
 
Rich86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: USA - California
Posts: 742
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 27
With all the rubbish and childish nonsense that seems to proliferate in some of these forums regarding hd-dvd vs. blu ray, it is gratifying to read comments form someone who is apparently knowledgeable, insightful and professional in his commentary. Thanks very much - and I too hope HD-DVD stays the course as it is my optical high def media of choice. If it fails, my HD-A30 will continue on, permitting me to enjoy the hd-dvd titles I have, along with superb presentation of my anamorphic standard def dvd's. I agree that Warner pulling the rug out on hd-dvd right after the Christmas holiday shopping season will simply damage everyone involved. It will serve only to make high def dvd an even smaller niche than it is already is. Warner's action is truly unfortunate for everyone who cares about high def.

A long-time audio/video addict!
Rich86 is offline  
post #22 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 12:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
J4yDubs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Jamison, PA
Posts: 603
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by estoyloco View Post

They could have easily made DVD/HD DVD combo disc's at the prices of regulard HD DVD. Rather they chose to charge a premium.
They could have easily made DVD/HD DVD combo format the standard, ensuring that any new movie coming out could possible come out only in this format.

Toshiba doesn't produce discs. Studios produce dissc. The studios would be the ones to make that decision. The option was available to them.

John
J4yDubs is offline  
post #23 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 01:23 PM
Senior Member
 
quikric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 385
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

With all the rubbish and childish nonsense that seems to proliferate in some of these forums regarding hd-dvd vs. blu ray, it is gratifying to read comments form someone who is apparently knowledgeable, insightful and professional in his commentary. Thanks very much - and I too hope HD-DVD stays the course as it is my optical high def media of choice. If it fails, my HD-A30 will continue on, permitting me to enjoy the hd-dvd titles I have, along with superb presentation of my anamorphic standard def dvd's. I agree that Warner pulling the rug out on hd-dvd right after the Christmas holiday shopping season will simply damage everyone involved. It will serve only to make high def dvd an even smaller niche than it is already is. Warner's action is truly unfortunate for everyone who cares about high def.

Agreed.

I support Region-Free/OAR!
quikric is offline  
post #24 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 02:24 PM
 
DTV TiVo Dealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scarsdale, NY
Posts: 4,878
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stitchesman View Post

Thanks Robert! Great post.

I hope HD-DVD can hang around long enough to produce a 4th generation player. I'm curious to see what improvements, advancements, and innovations they can make.

Thanks for all of the kind words everyone.

One improvement will be the passing of progressive video when outputting 1080p 60fps. The new video processor will just do the frame rate conversion and not interlace and de-interlace the video.

New drive and laser pick-up assembly will improve playback reliability even on damaged discs.

Faster load times are also one of the goals.

And I forgot to mention Toshiba showed a stand alone HD DVD recorder and a note book HD DVD recorder with editing/authoring software.

-Robert
DTV TiVo Dealer is offline  
post #25 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 02:46 PM
Senior Member
 
Don Borvio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 424
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Good to hear Robert, all improvements that may make me upgrade my XA2 to the XA4 (or whatever it will be). When you get them later in the year, let us know, and I'll probably order one unless all studios are Blu at that point.

I don't think HD DVD is going under yet though, and they have a good fight going with the price point.

Speaking of that though, I remember you said WB was dropping combos at the end of 2007 - I guess you didn't expect that to mean the entire format!
Don Borvio is offline  
post #26 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 02:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Hockeytown Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Hockeytown MI
Posts: 406
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Thanks for all of the kind words everyone.

One improvement will be the passing of progressive video when outputting 1080p 60fps. The new video processor will just do the frame rate conversion and not interlace and de-interlace the video.

New drive and laser pick-up assembly will improve playback reliability even on damaged discs.

Faster load times are also one of the goals.

And I forgot to mention Toshiba showed a stand alone HD DVD recorder and a note book HD DVD recorder with editing/authoring software.

-Robert

I'm so interested in one of these, Did they say anything about retail price and expected release?

Help a Family in need, Show Them We Care! Like it on Facebook and tweet it!
http://igg.me/p/171832?a=874546
Hockeytown Fan is offline  
post #27 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 04:07 PM
 
DTV TiVo Dealer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Scarsdale, NY
Posts: 4,878
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Borvio View Post

Speaking of that though, I remember you said WB was dropping combos at the end of 2007 - I guess you didn't expect that to mean the entire format!

Correct, in fact the last I heard Warner was in favor of going HD DVD exclusive.

Regarding the stand alone HD DVD recorder, it is available in Japan and I am pushing Toshiba Japan and TACP to bring some into the USA. Not sure of price yet.

-Robert
DTV TiVo Dealer is offline  
post #28 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 04:11 PM
Senior Member
 
quikric's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 385
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTV TiVo Dealer View Post

Toshiba was as shocked as anyone to hear about Warner's decision so it took them by surprise.

Their exhibit showed two new HD DVD applications, chat between two networked HD DVD players and animation figures that were singing and playing musical instruments in exact sync to a HD DVD disc playing Jazz music. Both looked very cool.

Mark Knox and several other HD DVD product managers and specialists supported the booth floor duty to answer questions and participate in demonstrations that ran all day long throughout the show. Jodi Sally spent a lot of time in dealer meetings and on the floor doing press interviews. I spent some time with Jodi and Toshiba's senior management and staff. The mood was surprisingly up beat and they all assured me that they are committed to the format and were working closely with the other HD DVD partners to build the format.

No one was trying to fool themselves or me as they all clearly admitted this was a big blow to HD DVD, but they were staying the course and would put every effort to continue to win the format dispute.

I was told they would likely have a price adjustment to keep player sales strong and would be actively negotiating with the software suppliers to release more catalog titles. I can't say what all of their plans are as they are rapidly being developed so plans can and do change quickly.

Title releases take quite a bit of time to come to market as contracts and mastering and final replication is a slow process. So don't expect to see many unexpected new titles for a few months.

4th gen players were never planned for CES, but more firmware upgrades are planned. The next gen players are expected in Q3 '08.

Personally and professionally I am saddened by Warner's decision as I believe this decision may actually lead to the demise of both HD optical formats. Here's why. BD hardware and software is expensive and now with less competition I do not expect to see the prices being forced to drop as quickly. So the average consumer is not going to be compelled to buy into a high priced device and high priced software. To me Warner made a bad decision that was very short sited.

HD DVD has always enjoyed a big hardware and software price advantage and was pushing BD to improve their product features, reliability and hopefully bring their prices in line. Sorry to see this turn out this way as I think no one will be a winner in the end.

The next frontier is Hollywood movies on flash memory cards and or download HD content.

-Robert

Sadly I agree with Robert about the possible loss to both Hi-Def formats if HD-DVD does indeed lose the war.
I also agree that the loss will mean Blu ray prices will no longer feel the pressure to lower or improve.

I support Region-Free/OAR!
quikric is offline  
post #29 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 04:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
shawnmos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 570
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by estoyloco View Post

Toshiba could have easily won this format war. But one thing and one thing alone probably stopped them. Greed.

There was no incentive to drop prices drastically when each sale could generate higher profits that was the same as the competitor. Toshiba I believe was also thinking in the short term and did not plan the longer term, thus jeopardizing their long term profits.

They could have easily made DVD/HD DVD combo disc's at the prices of regulard HD DVD. Rather they chose to charge a premium.
They could have easily made DVD/HD DVD combo format the standard, ensuring that any new movie coming out could possible come out only in this format.

If a DVD/HD DVD format was the only choice for a movie, and it worked on your regular DVD player. Don't you think the general public would still buy it if they wanted that movie, even if the price was a little higher than regular DVD?

All Toshiba had to do was put a 1 page flyer in the case, highlighting the advantage of buying a HD DVD player in DVD/HD DVD combo case.

I agree about the combo formats. Toshiba should have made it part of the HD DVD spec, that required all HD DVD discs to be backwards compatible, be it a combo flip disc, or a dual layer hd dvd/dvd disc.

Guaranteed backwards compatibility would have been awesome and a major advantage of the format. People could buy any HD DVD and know that it would still play in all of their older DVD player. Instead, they made combos optional and charged more for them. So stupid!
shawnmos is offline  
post #30 of 132 Old 01-20-2008, 04:50 PM
Member
 
estoyloco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 46
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by J4yDubs View Post

Toshiba doesn't produce discs. Studios produce dissc. The studios would be the ones to make that decision. The option was available to them.

John

Yes but Toshiba/HD DVD group sets the royalty fees on each disc manufactured.
If they had ate some of the HD DVD royalty cost for the combo disc, there would have been more incentive for companies to only produce in this combo format. But I bet that the hike in the price was high enough to take that away. I mean look at the MSRP price of movies that are just HD DVD and the ones that are HD DVD/DVD combo.

Keep in mind that yes the combo disc also adds extra fees from the DVD royalties, however keep in mind that alot of companies from the DVD forum are also in the HD DVD forum. So reducing the royalty cost would have been ideal.

I mean if the combo was a success, DVD forum still collect royalties -albeit probably less than they do now with DVD. And I am sure they will be willing to reduce their royalties, because if BD wins they will not get any, other than parties involved in BD forum.
estoyloco is offline  
Closed Thread HD DVD Players

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off