Having VERY bad luck with Warner HD-DVDs! - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 563 Old 12-02-2014, 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post
Not true. Many of us value & have use for either a dvd side, or a dvd copy of the film in the retail HD package!!
This is true. Recently I was about to watch one of my all time favorite movies, An American Werewolf in London (HDDVD/DVD combo) and much to my dismay found the HDDVD side went bad. At least I was able to watch the DVD side that night; not a bad rendition of the film. Time to get the BD I guess.

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post #542 of 563 Old 12-02-2014, 08:17 PM
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There is no question that HD-DVDs had some manufacturing qc problems (mostly caused by Warner's contract with cinram), BUT these playback problems were not skewed towards HD-DVD combo discs!
Very good point Rich; Cinram has produced some very bad discs over many years (CDs, DVDs, HD DVDs).
Cheap company, cheap quality control, cheap products.
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post #543 of 563 Old 12-02-2014, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post
Not true. Many of us value & have use for either a dvd side, or a dvd copy of the film in the retail HD package!!
Especially after the HD-DVD side rots away.

On that topic, I just confirmed that my only Warner combo disc "16 Blocks" still plays perfectly, continuing my streak of no failures with combo discs.

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
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post #544 of 563 Old 12-02-2014, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
I like both sides clean anyway; from my Combo HD DVDs. ...You can call me a clean addict.
I am very much with you on this issue. I have a very large collection of optical media audio/video materials - CDs, laser discs, DVDs, HD-DVDs & BDs - I am a fanatic about the care of these - and have been very careful about cleaning devices used to ensure double sided discs are not compromised during cleaning,..

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #545 of 563 Old 12-03-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by oleus View Post
not all of them are combos - but a vast majority of my failed discs were combos.
Where are you getting this from? I thoroughly tested my HD-DVDs and next to none of the WB combo ones failed while a few of my Universal combos have failed.

The vast majority of my corrupted HD-DVDs were one sided discs of which WB was the loin's share of them.
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post #546 of 563 Old 12-03-2014, 10:56 PM
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While counting my combo discs (11), I found another Warner's combo disc: "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang". People may remember complaining that it's a single layer HD-DVD however it looked great to me. And it still plays perfectly.

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
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post #547 of 563 Old 12-04-2014, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by wuther View Post
Where are you getting this from? I thoroughly tested my HD-DVDs and next to none of the WB combo ones failed while a few of my Universal combos have failed.

The vast majority of my corrupted HD-DVDs were one sided discs of which WB was the loin's share of them.
i thought it was obvious that i was getting this from personal experience with my hd-dvd collection.

a couple of years ago i started backing up my hd-dvd collection (100+) to see which ones were failed discs. it's easy to find the failed discs when you attempt the backup from an hd-dvd drive.

i can't remember the exact number but i think i had about 15-20% fail rate.

also i didn't say they were only warner combos that failed. i just remember a lot of them being combos. can't remember whether the lion's share were universal or warners.
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post #548 of 563 Old 12-04-2014, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by oleus View Post
i thought it was obvious that i was getting this from personal experience with my hd-dvd collection.

a couple of years ago i started backing up my hd-dvd collection (100+) to see which ones were failed discs. it's easy to find the failed discs when you attempt the backup from an hd-dvd drive.

i can't remember the exact number but i think i had about 15-20% fail rate.

also i didn't say they were only warner combos that failed. i just remember a lot of them being combos. can't remember whether the lion's share were universal or warners.
♦ Time to file damage (emotional/financial) compensation claims to both Warner Brothers and Universal studios?

For me that represents 80 HD DVD titles, or roughly an investment of $2,000-2,400.

Last edited by NorthSky; 12-04-2014 at 07:25 PM. Reason: $$$
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post #549 of 563 Old 12-04-2014, 07:23 PM
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Or we can continue to live our lives.

NOW: my post on AVS Forum.
NEXT: someone else's post on AVS Forum.
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post #550 of 563 Old 12-04-2014, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oleus View Post
i thought it was obvious that i was getting this from personal experience with my hd-dvd collection.

a couple of years ago i started backing up my hd-dvd collection (100+) to see which ones were failed discs. it's easy to find the failed discs when you attempt the backup from an hd-dvd drive.

i can't remember the exact number but i think i had about fail rate.

also i didn't say they were only warner combos that failed. i just remember a lot of them being combos. can't remember whether the lion's share were universal or warners.
15-20% is a low failure rate for WBs, I got 70% to 80%.

Which WB combos failed on you and using what drive?

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Or we can continue to live our lives.
No.
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post #551 of 563 Old 12-04-2014, 11:31 PM
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Or we can continue to live our lives.
We always do, and people die every day; around, and everywhere. ...Others come, newborns.
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post #552 of 563 Old 12-04-2014, 11:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wuther View Post
15-20% is a low failure rate for WBs, I got 70% to 80%.

Which WB combos failed on you and using what drive?
You serious!!! ...I wouldn't sleep; I simply would get ALL my money back!
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post #553 of 563 Old 12-05-2014, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by wuther View Post
15-20% is a low failure rate for WBs, I got 70% to 80%.

Which WB combos failed on you and using what drive?



No.
15%-20% is certainly not a low failure rate lol

70% to 80% is probably a world record for this phenomenon!

i honestly can't remember which titles failed....at this point that's sort of irrelevant?

the discs are dying off and there isn't really anything we can do about it

the global pandemic cannot be stopped.

PS - i was using the xbox HD-DVD drive to back up my hd-dvd catalog, which resulted in confirming that about 75%-80% of the discs were ok. If the disc was successfully backed up, the disc was ok. i did this for over 100 discs.
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post #554 of 563 Old 12-05-2014, 09:34 AM
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The Matrix was not a combo disc. I don't recall about Happy Feet. I do have some combos - none have failed yet.

Go Duke !
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post #555 of 563 Old 12-05-2014, 12:31 PM
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Happy Feet was a flipper.

S~

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post #556 of 563 Old 12-05-2014, 10:29 PM
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15%-20% is certainly not a low failure rate lol

70% to 80% is probably a world record for this phenomenon!
One person claimed on caps-a-holic that all the WB owned were corrupt so mine is not a record. And I was writing about percentage of WB discs not titles.
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i honestly can't remember which titles failed....at this point that's sort of irrelevant?
So you are posting in this thread because it is irrelevant?
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PS - i was using the xbox HD-DVD drive to back up my hd-dvd catalog, which resulted in confirming that about 75%-80% of the discs were ok. If the disc was successfully backed up, the disc was ok. i did this for over 100 discs.
I have that drive and I found when plugged in to one computer it could not read some combos but when I plugged it in a different computer it could read the combos. Exact same OS and exact same software in both so go figure.

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Happy Feet was a flipper.
Yes and it's in my good pile.

Last edited by wuther; 12-05-2014 at 10:34 PM.
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post #557 of 563 Old 12-15-2014, 10:55 PM
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How is everyone storing these? Out of 300+ discs I've had maybe one go bad. I keep them in a cool dark corner in the original cases on a DVD rack.

I've only lost maybe 10 laserdiscs out of 1300, kept in vertical upright record cabinets with doors that close.
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post #558 of 563 Old 12-16-2014, 02:42 AM
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Rotten Disc doesn't care on how you store your discs, it's a time bomb issue, and there is nothing you can do to prevent it.

* I had several discs (DVDs, HD DVDs, and Blu-rays) that simply stop playing after a certain time (most of them with bad glue between the two layers).
Blame the factory plants where the studios save money by contracting them without doing their diligent research about quality control.
...So blame the studios first.

As for LPs store them vertically, in a dust-free zone, with each disc inside a rice paper cover. ...And @ normal room temperature.

CDs; check the ones from the 80s and 90s, manufactured by CINRAM, with pinholes, and extremely badly recorded. Those you can get rid of @ your local Savation Army store.

Dual-layer discs need special care when manufactured; the plant has to be impeccable, with good quality control. ...DVDs, Blu-rays, SACDs, ...
...And combo discs (HD DVDs) the same.
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post #559 of 563 Old 12-16-2014, 07:24 AM
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Yeah, it has nothing to do with storage. You might think you have only had one bad disc, but here's the problem: the only way to tell if a disc is bad, in a vast vast majority of the discs that are failing, is to play the disc up to the layer change and see if it keeps playing. That's where the warner discs had issues.

So the best way to tell if a disc was bad was to attempt a backup via an hd-dvd drive to your computer. The backup would fail if the disc was bad (usually in the initial test scan with something like make mkv, or sometimes approximately halfway through the backup).

The "failed" disc would almost always play fine - up until the layer change. And unless you know exactly where the layer change is, it's an almost impossible task to check the disc's health without attempting to back your discs up.
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post #560 of 563 Old 12-17-2014, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yrly View Post
How is everyone storing these? Out of 300+ discs I've had maybe one go bad. I keep them in a cool dark corner in the original cases on a DVD rack.

I've only lost maybe 10 laserdiscs out of 1300, kept in vertical upright record cabinets with doors that close.
At best that would only slow the rot down. Does not explain why WB is the biggest problem either.

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So the best way to tell if a disc was bad was to attempt a backup via an hd-dvd drive to your computer. The backup would fail if the disc was bad (usually in the initial test scan with something like make mkv, or sometimes approximately halfway through the backup).
That's the poor way of testing. The ripper will tell you jack squat, the free ones will abort on the slightest problem and the commercial rippers cannot match the error handling of free Unstoppable Copier.

The free VSO Inspector will give the nearest complete analyst and a log of just where the problem areas on the disc are and how bad the rot is, while the rippers will just crapout. Plus VSO will give Manufacturer ID and other disc info as well, Nero DiscSpeed is next best thing to VSO.

Trying to rip a heavily damaged disc is just a big waste of time.
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post #561 of 563 Old Yesterday, 07:11 AM
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At best that would only slow the rot down. Does not explain why WB is the biggest problem either.



That's the poor way of testing. The ripper will tell you jack squat, the free ones will abort on the slightest problem and the commercial rippers cannot match the error handling of free Unstoppable Copier.

The free VSO Inspector will give the nearest complete analyst and a log of just where the problem areas on the disc are and how bad the rot is, while the rippers will just crapout. Plus VSO will give Manufacturer ID and other disc info as well, Nero DiscSpeed is next best thing to VSO.

Trying to rip a heavily damaged disc is just a big waste of time.
Wuther, you are completely wrong.

Makemkv accurately picked out the failed discs in my hd-dvd library.

I tested the failed backups by attempting to play those discs up to the layer change. The discs that failed backup either wouldn't even play in my Toshiba XA2, or failed at the layer change.

The discs that were successfully backed up play perfectly via Plex, VLC, etc.

There were lengthy discussions about the backup method being used to diagnose problem discs.
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post #562 of 563 Unread Yesterday, 07:03 PM
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Wuther, you are completely wrong.

Makemkv accurately picked out the failed discs in my hd-dvd library.
A self expiring transcoder? No thanks, I am not going to waste time trying to back up every disc when I just want to test and the important undamaged (or lightly corrupt) ones I instead copy the original encodes and can play them. Makemkv's own website states the program can crash on corrupt discs unlike Unstoppable Copier, Vso Inspector and DiscSpeed.

It's main purpose is ripping not testing, more like 'testing' your car by turning the ignition key. If you want to call it a great ripper fine. Not much of a tester though.

I am not going to waste my time with a program struggling to encode a damaged disc and using a ton of space with it's raw format and expiring on me whenever it feels like it.

Last edited by wuther; Yesterday at 07:16 PM.
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post #563 of 563 Unread Today, 07:00 AM
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A self expiring transcoder? No thanks, I am not going to waste time trying to back up every disc when I just want to test and the important undamaged (or lightly corrupt) ones I instead copy the original encodes and can play them. Makemkv's own website states the program can crash on corrupt discs unlike Unstoppable Copier, Vso Inspector and DiscSpeed.

It's main purpose is ripping not testing, more like 'testing' your car by turning the ignition key. If you want to call it a great ripper fine. Not much of a tester though.

I am not going to waste my time with a program struggling to encode a damaged disc and using a ton of space with it's raw format and expiring on me whenever it feels like it.
My experience was nothing as you describe and I don't understand your claim that it's a waste of time. Not trying to get in an argument over this but this is why i think it's the most logical method/path to use :

First off, with the warner hd-dvd discs going bad (i had an approximate fail rate of 10%, which seemed about average compared to other reports), I don't see why someone wouldn't want to start backing up their discs asap (i did this about 2 years ago when I found this thread), whether it be as playable MKVs or pure ISO backups. Who knows what the fail rate will be five years from now?

And I never once had the program crash on me, if a disc failed in the backup it would just give a "bad disc" message, and with the Warner titles you could even approximate where the layer change was due to how far along the process was upon failing. These failed discs then failed regular playback on my XA2 and Xbox drive, while the successful backups became a completely playable HD-DVD library directly streamable in my HTPC.

The car ignition test isn't a fair comparison - it doesn't really matter to me what the specific encode error was, if MakeMKV failed it was an unplayable disc 100% of the time and there is absolutely no fix for the failed discs. They're dead. With a car there's always a good chance of repair so of course you would want a diagnostic test there. No diagnostic test was going to bring back the 10% of my Warner HD-DVD catalog.

So after using this method I had my entire HD-DVD library with direct-play access in Plex, while I had almost instantly identified with discs I needed to replace with a blu-ray.

I guess i don't understand why you are so dismissive of this method, and I'm hardly the only one to go through and backup their HD-DVD library this way while at the same time identifying the discs that were goners. Many a thread on many a forum were full of postmortems a couple of years ago with people sifting through their HD-DVDs with this exact method.

Not saying however you choose to test is "wrong" I just don't think this method is anything close to a "waste of time"
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