Having VERY bad luck with Warner HD-DVDs! - Page 8 - AVS Forum
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post #211 of 494 Old 11-19-2011, 06:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8traxrule View Post

The player reset code works on all Toshibas- it clears EVERYTHING so if you have the "Freedom" discs make sure to re-download the extras while they're still online! It has helped some discs to play that gave an error message at startup, but it won't do anything for discs that it simply can't read parts of.

YMMV, but after applying the reset, my WB copy of In the Valley of Elah stopped freezing at the same point halfway through the movie (at the layer break perhaps?). It's the only copy of that nature though that I was having a problem with.
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post #212 of 494 Old 11-19-2011, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

Most of my bad disk discoveries have been on my XBOX 360... That is where I am working at converting all that still work to BD-R for safety.

I have attached a photo of the lesion one sees deep to the reading surface of the bad disc. Double lick (that should have been Click) on the thumbnail to enlarge.

When the disc stops playing on the XA2 and shows an Error 408b c509, you know your in trouble. In all cases the same disc will not play fully on the XBOX or on tsMuxer (which brings up an error message stating that bad sectors exist.

I think you are very wise to backup your HD DVD's to .iso files and burn them later as I have done.

The reason I am doing this is because the image quality on some of the HD DVD's (and I will just mention two - Phantom of the Opera and Deliverance) far exceeds the equivalent BRD especially if you expand the image to a 9' wide screen.
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post #213 of 494 Old 11-20-2011, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheryll View Post

I have attached a photo of the lesion one sees

Can you please list some/all of the disc titles you have which exhibit this problem (and don't play properly). I looked at Phantom and Deliverance but see no "lesions" for example.

BTW I checked my Cream Live at Royal Albert Hall and Deliverance and both are perfect.
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post #214 of 494 Old 11-20-2011, 07:35 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Deliverance gives the error message on my A2 literally during the first minute, but plays without a hitch on my A30.

Haven't had any problems with Phantom of the Opera except that all the audio tracks on that are at a VERY low volume and I have to turn my receiver up almost all the way when playing that. Odd since that was one of the very first HD-DVDs released, bet it confused a few people just setting up their players.
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post #215 of 494 Old 11-21-2011, 02:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

Can you please list some/all of the disc titles you have which exhibit this problem (and don't play properly)....

1. Deliverance x 3 copies
2. Goodfellas x 3
3. Lethal Weapon 2 x 2
4. Meet the Parents x 1
5. Swordfish x 1
6. The Fugitive x 1
7. The Perfect Storm x 4
8. The Phantom of the Opera x 2
9. The Shining x 2
10. The Thing x 1

All of the above either show the 'Lesions' and some will play in part, however, the remainder lock the XA2 and then to get the disc out I have to do a hard re-set and press open.

These disc replicate the same issues on a 360Box, tsMuxer and Slysoft.

Stuart
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post #216 of 494 Old 11-21-2011, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheryll View Post

1. Deliverance x 3 copies
2. Goodfellas x 3
3. Lethal Weapon 2 x 2
4. Meet the Parents x 1
5. Swordfish x 1
6. The Fugitive x 1
7. The Perfect Storm x 4
8. The Phantom of the Opera x 2
9. The Shining x 2
10. The Thing x 1

All of the above either show the 'Lesions' and some will play in part, however, the remainder lock the XA2 and then to get the disc out I have to do a hard re-set and press open.

I just checked Deliverance and it's perfect (including playback). I have Fugitive, Perfect Storm, Phantom, and Shining and none has the lesions.

Somehow I suspect they will all play perfectly as well...
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post #217 of 494 Old 11-21-2011, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

I just checked Deliverance and it's perfect (including playback). I have Fugitive, Perfect Storm, Phantom, and Shining and none has the lesions.

Somehow I suspect they will all play perfectly as well...

I have THE THING and GOODFELLAS and both work fine on my A30

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post #218 of 494 Old 11-21-2011, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinema13 View Post

I have THE THING and GOODFELLAS and both work fine on my A30

All I can say is that you guys have been lucky, but I'll bet you a 'penny
for a pound' that sooner or later you will start to see these changes.

Stuart
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post #219 of 494 Old 11-22-2011, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheryll View Post

All I can say is that you guys have been lucky, but I'll bet you a 'penny
for a pound' that sooner or later you will start to see these changes.

Stuart

Wow, I've not seen anything even remotely like your lesions on any of my discs, yet I have a few Warners that are not playing through (Forbidden Planet, HP: Order of the Phoenix are two I remember at the moment). I don't visually see anything wrong with the discs, but they lockup and won't play, usually when switching to the second layer.
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post #220 of 494 Old 11-22-2011, 02:39 PM
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Bought a used copy of Goodfellas and it played fine until about the 38 minute mark and they it begins to break up and eventually freeze on both my A30 and A3, both of which have the latest firmwares. I've had this happen before on Prisoner of Azkaban. Neither disc has any kind of cloudiness, scratches, or anything. I've never had a problem with HD DVD's from Paramount or Universal, only Warner. Both discs were bought through USTrade on Amazon, so I think maybe they have a bad batch of discs they're selling.
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post #221 of 494 Old 11-22-2011, 11:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8traxrule View Post

Haven't had any problems with Phantom of the Opera except that all the audio tracks on that are at a VERY low volume and I have to turn my receiver up almost all the way when playing that.

Among those of us who were there at the beginning of the HD DVD format, this sound issue (Phantom was the first Dolby TrueHD disc, as well as one of the first three titles available on April 18, 2006) was well-known and discussed at the time.

Speaking of long-unopened discs, this is still one of mine, and I did buy it on 4/18/2006...

Chris

"It's [expletive] lame to watch Jaws, a film that uses the 2.40 ratio as well as any ever produced, in the wrong format on HBO." -Steven Soderbergh, Oscar-winning director

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post #222 of 494 Old 11-23-2011, 02:37 PM
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Just had Mission Impossible 1 freeze up on me repeatedly after the 55:43 mark of the movie. Not a Warner disk, so very troublesome. Can we trust any of our HD DVD disks?
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post #223 of 494 Old 11-23-2011, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

I would say at this point, it is something less than 10% - and that is specifically for Warner titles. HD-DVD titles from other studios have been trouble free for me for the most part (I cannot recall a single title that failed so far). I also have not seen any indication that HD-DVD combo titles are more problematic than single sided HD-DVDs. We are talking about brand new, just taken out of the shrink wrap titles here - nothing purchased used/opened.

So far, I've had 2 titles refuse to even load up at all ("Lethal Weapon 1" & "Phantom of the Opera"). But the problems most often occur about half-way through the movie, where some serious macro-blocking can occur, followed by the video locking up completely while the timer continues running. I am assuming it is a layer break issue or the disc failing towards the outer rim (I believe the data is recorded and read from the inner hub to the outside, like CDs, DVDs & BDs). I'm also assuming Warner contracted with a manufacturer that was putting out defective products.

We watched our "Full Metal Jacket" HD-DVD most recently (the reissue). It played perfectly. I confess we still have a fair number of HD-DVDs that have never been opened, due to being titles we've seen before in standard definition. Needless to say, I am focusing our HD-DVD viewing on our remaining unopened Warner titles . . . .

I hope this info is somewhat helpful to others.

My "bag of Warner HD-DVD defects" now includes:
1 title will not load at all: Phantom of the Opera,
1 title has video artifacts almost immediately upon starting the movie and then locks up: Matrix (the 2nd & 3rd Matrix movies in the set are ok).
6 titles have video artifacts and lockup approx. 1/2 way thru: Wyatt Earp, Space Cowboy, Purple Rain, Goodfellas, Forbidden Planet & Cream: Royal Albert Hall
1 title has a minor video artifact: Training Day
That concludes my playing of unopened Warner HD-DVD titles. Not a very proud statement about Warner's QC on their HD-DVD products. The good news is, however, they have been very supportive in exchanging defective products. All these titles have been sent to Warner for replacement via their prepaid return authorization. We'll see how it works out.
Titles in my collection from other studios do not seem to suffer from these problems.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #224 of 494 Old 11-24-2011, 09:50 AM
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Since this thread made me all paranoid, I decided to throw in a few HD DVD's today and sampled them. I watched Mission: Impossible, Terminator 3, and Army of Darkness (Combo) and thankfully had no problems with any of them whatsoever. Whew.
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post #225 of 494 Old 11-25-2011, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuiGonJosh View Post

Since this thread made me all paranoid, I decided to throw in a few HD DVD's today and sampled them. I watched Mission: Impossible, Terminator 3, and Army of Darkness (Combo) and thankfully had no problems with any of them whatsoever. Whew.

From what I have read, the problem seems to be directly related to a particular disc manufacturer Warner used (Cinram). Try more of your Warner titles if you want to be safe.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #226 of 494 Old 11-25-2011, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich86 View Post

From what I have read, the problem seems to be directly related to a particular disc manufacturer Warner used (Cinram). Try more of your Warner titles if you want to be safe.

I have since watched V For Vendetta with no problems. I found a like new copy of Blade Runner for $4 so I'll have to give that a spin as well.
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post #227 of 494 Old 11-25-2011, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

Just had Mission Impossible 1 freeze up on me repeatedly after the 55:43 mark of the movie. Not a Warner disk, so very troublesome. Can we trust any of our HD DVD disks?

Well, I was able to rip and burn MI to BD-RE without issue, so the disc seems reasonably ok, maybe it's an issue with my HD-30... I may try the player reset and see if that helps. I did the firmware upgrade to HD-35 on the player to get bitstream of DVD audio, but I never did a reset.

(edit) The reset seems to have helped ... MI now plays through the layer change without issue.
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post #228 of 494 Old 11-26-2011, 04:18 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Copy number **15** of Cream played with no problems! I was almost about to give up on this title. I THINK all my bad discs are replaced now, assuming more don't go bad later.

One disc I'm still trying to get is the Eagles Farewell Tour, but that still goes for more than I'm willing to spend. Since it's from Rhino and probably manufactured by Cinram, I'd hate to pay a premium price for that only for it to have as high a defect as the Cream disc!
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post #229 of 494 Old 11-26-2011, 06:39 AM
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I have tried The Island (German) and Goodfellas (German) and they do not play. In addition to these, those other ones also have issues:

Poseidon
The Reaping
Space Cowboys

All German ones

How do you verify or force a layer change? I do not have the time to watch all my movies from the start .
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post #230 of 494 Old 11-26-2011, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8traxrule View Post

Copy number **15** of Cream played with no problems! I was almost about to give up on this title. I THINK all my bad discs are replaced now, assuming more don't go bad later.

One disc I'm still trying to get is the Eagles Farewell Tour, but that still goes for more than I'm willing to spend. Since it's from Rhino and probably manufactured by Cinram, I'd hate to pay a premium price for that only for it to have as high a defect as the Cream disc!

I LOVE the Eagles Farewell Tour HD-DVD. Mine played just fine (although I have not watched it in a while). It is awesome - and DTS-HD Master audio if your equipment supports bitstreaming & decoding lossless audio.

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #231 of 494 Old 11-28-2011, 08:43 AM
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In case you guys didn't notice this thread, there is at least one member who believes the inability to play Warner discs is firmware related:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post20877686

Quote:


I was stupid and just did a 4.0 Upgrade and now no Warner Brothers HD-DVDs will play without glitches and pauses which wreck the movies especially on the Matrix and 300 movies

I've had no problems and I'm running old firmware (2.7 I think). Maybe one of y'all with problems might want to try downgrading firmware. This sure could explain why some of us have no issues?
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post #232 of 494 Old 11-28-2011, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

In case you guys didn't notice this thread, there is at least one member who believes the inability to play Warner discs is firmware related:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...6#post20877686


I've had no problems and I'm running old firmware (2.7 I think). Maybe one of y'all with problems might want to try downgrading firmware. This sure could explain why some of us have no issues?

Ok, but did he do a player reset after upgrading the firmware? That does seem to have helped with some of my playability problems.

Something else I discovered: I was trying to rip and burn "Justice League" and my Xbox 360 drive was not recognizing the disk. I let it sit in the drive for an hour or so while I did some other things and then opened and closed the drive (which I had done numerous times with no effect an hour before) and the disk was immediately recognized and ripped without issue.
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post #233 of 494 Old 12-07-2011, 01:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

... I let it sit in the drive for an hour or so ..

Reading this forum it becomes reasonably clear that there are multiple reasons why some HD DVD's play and others do not.

It may be that using a mediocre player with a bad disc, the player may not show an error message skip the bad sectors and play only a portion of the movie. This can be checked by looking at the back of the box seeing how long the movie should be and correlating this with the actual time the player used on the LED screen.

Presently, the first thing I do is look at the disc at various angles under a Halogen light. If there are multiple scratches or if there are blemishes that cannot be removed I start to get concerned.

I then use .tsMuxer (which takes about 20 seconds) to examine the disc and if there are bad sectors that's the end of that!

Stuart
Attached is a photo of a really bad looking disc. I enhanced this so that the lesions which are deep to the surface would be more obvious
LL
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post #234 of 494 Old 12-08-2011, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheryll View Post

I then use .tsMuxer (which takes about 20 seconds) to examine the disc and if there are bad sectors that's the end of that!

Please explain--you import to tsMuxeR GUI and that is your test?

Yeah that's a really nasty-looking disc there. What is the title?
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post #235 of 494 Old 12-08-2011, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

import to tsMuxeR GUI and that is your test?

What is the title?

The disc is one of the many non-working copies I have of The Phantom of the Opera.

.tsMuxer is just a quick and dirty way, although I have found it to be quite reliable.

Stuart
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post #236 of 494 Old 12-08-2011, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheryll View Post


The disc is one of the many non-working copies I have of The Phantom of the Opera.

.tsMuxer is just a quick and dirty way, although I have found it to be quite reliable.

Stuart

That still does not explain what you do ... I know what tsmuxer is, but what is .txmuxer? Don't you have to rip a disc before tsmuxer can do anything with it?
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post #237 of 494 Old 12-09-2011, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by iontyre View Post

Don't you have to rip a disc before tsmuxer can do anything with it?

No, you load the disc, run the program then add the EVO file. If sectors are bad it tells you so immediately. However, you do need AnyDVD HD program to de-cryp the disc (which it does in about 3 seconds) before you can use tsmuxer.

Stuart
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post #238 of 494 Old 12-09-2011, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sheryll View Post

The disc is one of the many non-working copies I have of The Phantom of the Opera.

.tsMuxer is just a quick and dirty way, although I have found it to be quite reliable.

Stuart

Thanks for telling; I looked at my copy & it's still perfect. Strange to me that some should deteriorate so badly, especially as it seems they were all manufactured in the same place (at least, shouldn't that be the case)? I mean, I can't imagine that these discs were manufactured in
1. in any more than one run at one point in time
2. at one particular pressing plant
Anyone know any differently, other of course than another region where a different version might have been made?

Glad you get quick/dirty results with tsMuxeR, but in the end the only way to tell if you have a 100% readable disc is to read it 100%, which means at least 20-40minutes or however fast your reader spins.
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post #239 of 494 Old 12-09-2011, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserfan View Post

Thanks for telling; I looked at my copy & it's still perfect. Strange to me that some should deteriorate so badly, especially as it seems they were all manufactured in the same place (at least, shouldn't that be the case)? I mean, I can't imagine that these discs were manufactured in
1. in any more than one run at one point in time
2. at one particular pressing plant
Anyone know any differently, other of course than another region where a different version might have been made?

Glad you get quick/dirty results with tsMuxeR, but in the end the only way to tell if you have a 100% readable disc is to read it 100%, which means at least 20-40minutes or however fast your reader spins.

From what I have read - there was 1 manufacturer (cinram) who seemed to put out a lot of defective hd-dvd product for Warner. I don't know that Warner or cinram has ever confessed to that as fact (nor do I have any way to verify it as factual).

A long-time audio/video addict!
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post #240 of 494 Old 12-09-2011, 08:27 PM
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"the only way to tell if you have a 100% readable disc is to read it 100%"

Not true, I was able to play a copy to 'The Goodfellas' and having seen it before I got the impression that something in the movie had been cut.

The length to the movie was 140 Mins and should have been 146 Mins if memory serves. In other words a sector had been skipped.

Stuart
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