HD-DVD Authoring to DVD -/+ Media - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 1475 Old 06-19-2006, 03:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

My receiver reports 5.1 audio for files that start with it. If you check the box in MF5 that says "Do not convert compliant MPEG files," you should retain your 5.1 audio.

Ulead website states that MF5 supports only 2.0 audio. It's mentioned somewhere on the website (in the FAQ, perhsps) that DD5.1 is downmixed to DD2.0. AND it's done that every single time I've tried it.

Either the manual or the website also mentions that the "Do not convert compliant MPEG files" means video only - but compliant audio is passed through as-is. For MF5 that means DD2.0, not DD5.1. But hey, great if it works for you

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post #632 of 1475 Old 06-19-2006, 05:07 PM
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Did it occur to anyone that the ability to play HD content on the toshiba is unique because it uses a HD-DVD rom computer drive? This allows the toshiba to spin regular DVDs fast enough to overcome the HD bitrate on DVDs.

Don't be suprised when other HD-DVD players start coming out that don't have a HD-DVD rom drive won't be able to play HD content on DVDs because their built in player only spins DVDs at 1x.

This may also be why BR isn't working since the player can't spin the disk fast enough to read the HD content since its probably a 1x dvd drive. I have yet to see the insides of the samsung.

Or am I talking out of my ass and there is some sort of specification saying that all players should have the capability to read HD from regular DVDs?

ZZ
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post #633 of 1475 Old 06-19-2006, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeggyZon View Post

Did it occur to anyone that the ability to play HD content on the toshiba is unique because it uses a HD-DVD rom computer drive? This allows the toshiba to spin regular DVDs fast enough to overcome the HD bitrate on DVDs.

That's a very good point. Sounds about right to me.

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post #634 of 1475 Old 06-19-2006, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Ulead website states that MF5 supports only 2.0 audio. It's mentioned somewhere on the website (in the FAQ, perhsps) that DD5.1 is downmixed to DD2.0. AND it's done that every single time I've tried it.

Either the manual or the website also mentions that the "Do not convert compliant MPEG files" means video only - but compliant audio is passed through as-is. For MF5 that means DD2.0, not DD5.1. But hey, great if it works for you

Did you really mean to say that "compliant audio is passed through as-is"? That would seem to indicate that the audio is passed through the process as it exists in the original file, which is what I think has been happening. My receiver reports the audio as Dolby Digital 5.1. I'd really be interested in results others are getting with their projects.

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post #635 of 1475 Old 06-19-2006, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeggyZon View Post

Did it occur to anyone that the ability to play HD content on the toshiba is unique because it uses a HD-DVD rom computer drive? This allows the toshiba to spin regular DVDs fast enough to overcome the HD bitrate on DVDs.

Don't be suprised when other HD-DVD players start coming out that don't have a HD-DVD rom drive won't be able to play HD content on DVDs because their built in player only spins DVDs at 1x.

This may also be why BR isn't working since the player can't spin the disk fast enough to read the HD content since its probably a 1x dvd drive. I have yet to see the insides of the samsung.

Or am I talking out of my ass and there is some sort of specification saying that all players should have the capability to read HD from regular DVDs?

ZZ

That sounds plausible except for this - most of the material we're talking about here doesn't have a bitrate that even come close to the rated read speed of most DVD drives. I thought maybe it was that recordable media were inherently slower to read because of the dye medium used for the writes, as opposed to the pits in a commercially pressed DVD. Most DVD drives claim a read speed of 10x-16x. That's plenty of throughput for the HD bitrate of almost all the movies I've recorded from satellite. The Toshiba red laser has no trouble reading the dye even at high bitrates (like Grandmaster's 30mbps).

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post #636 of 1475 Old 06-19-2006, 09:36 PM
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For some strange reason, if I take a HDDVD folder generated by DVD Movie Factory and burn the contents as a dvd data disk, the Toshiba will only play the HDDVD only if using +RW or -RW media. Using +R/-R disks are not recognized by The player.

Anyone tried using +RW/-RW on the BD player?
---

Further, as for the suggestion that the players have 1X readers for DVD. I doubt that is even possible. Everybody's systems starts out with the ATAPI i/f. This is likely going to stay like this for a few years until all the sw kinks are worked out, then the integration push will happen to shave a few pennies. But even then the flexibility of reading HDV files will become a must have feature, and any manufacturer will have be insane to not support this...
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post #637 of 1475 Old 06-19-2006, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeggyZon View Post

Or am I talking out of my ass and there is some sort of specification saying that all players should have the capability to read HD from regular DVDs?

ZZ

It is ass-talk, alas! Both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD have the ability to read HD material from red-laser DVD media. Warner Brothers insisted on it so they could produce cheapo HD disks pressed on DVD-9 for lower-end titles, encoded into AVC or VC1. Both of those codecs will easily fit a two hour movie at good quality onto an 8.5GB dual layer disk.

The format, on Blu-Ray at least, is known as BD-9. HD-DVD has been built up from day one to be backwards compatible with DVD.

It's the whole reason I came to this thread in the first place

There is no 'BD-5' format though so that may be why burning single layer DVD doesn't work for Blu-Ray. Or else they may simply have locked out recordable DVDs?
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post #638 of 1475 Old 06-19-2006, 10:55 PM
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But there might be political (copy protection, market preservation) or a simple firmware bug that could prevent that. As it stands now, I am at this moment watching the HD-A1 blinking firmware "update 40PCT ", hoping this will solve the -R/+R issue. I can't find printable DVD/RW media anywhere.

Btw, the HDMI output on this would not display on the philips LCD TV's HDMI input or my plasma's DVi/HDCP input, so I am also hoping this firmware upgrade will also fix this.
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post #639 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 01:41 AM
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How about wmv-hd, divx-hd, avc-hd burned on DVD-R as files in ISO or UDF mode? It playable on Toshiba?
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post #640 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 02:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Did you really mean to say that "compliant audio is passed through as-is"?

Yes - compliant from MF5 point of view. And according to Ulead, MF5 supports DD2.0, not DD5.1. I did some 10 test burns with content which had DD5.1 audio, tried every option MF5 provided, and every single time the audio was downmixed to DD2.0. But like I said, if it works for you, that's great.

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post #641 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 02:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

How about wmv-hd, divx-hd, avc-hd burned on DVD-R as files in ISO or UDF mode? It playable on Toshiba?

No.

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post #642 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 02:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Laksono View Post

Anyone tried using +RW/-RW on the BD player?

I haven't, but I've used both -R and +R very successfully.

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post #643 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

No.

mp3's ?
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post #644 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

I haven't, but I've used both -R and +R very successfully.

Updated firmware to 1.2 (still no go with +R/-R)

My DVD MF5 does not produce ISO image, just the file folder. If I take Sonic RecordNow Data and burn the file folder to a DVD-RW or DVD+RW, the disk is playable. With DVD-R and DVD+R, the disk is not playable.

What authoring program did you use to create the +R/-R?
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post #645 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsv View Post

mp3's ?

yes!

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post #646 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 06:30 AM
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Indra: Try using Nero Burning ROM. Create a DVD video, put anything you want into the VIDEO_TS folder (a blank text file if you like) then move your HD-DVD titleset into the DVD-ROM portion of the disk (below VIDEO_TS in the left pane).

Then burn like that. This is how everyone else without ISO burning has coped.
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post #647 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 06:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra Laksono View Post

What authoring program did you use to create the +R/-R?

Used both MF5 and VS10+ with success. Both output into image file, which was then written with ImgBurn, using BenQ 1650 and NEC 3500 drives. And firmware v1.12 here, too. I'd hazard a guess your problem lies with Sonic.

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post #648 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 07:37 AM
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I took the -RW disk, moved to my desktop, ran nero to (1) create disk image on hdd [.nrg file] . (2) burn disk image to dvd-r .

DVD-R made using Nero from diskimage of the -RW disk now also plays flawlessly. There's lots to be said about that HDV camcorder but that's a topic for another day and another forum.

I am installing Nero next onto my laptop (the main HDV capture machine) to see if it works better than Sonic.

Now if I can only solve why both my philips HDMI LCD and optoma DVI/HDCP would not synch to the HD-A1 HDMI output, things would be just perfect.
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post #649 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Yes - compliant from MF5 point of view. And according to Ulead, MF5 supports DD2.0, not DD5.1. I did some 10 test burns with content which had DD5.1 audio, tried every option MF5 provided, and every single time the audio was downmixed to DD2.0. But like I said, if it works for you, that's great.

Well pteittinen, it works for me too. All of my HD-DVDs I've made with MF5 have their DD5.1 soundtracks intact. So Ulead must have changed something in the'r current version. I have the original release. If you have an FTP site, I could upload a test disc image created with MF5 from a 1080i DD5.1 recording, for you to try. They are all definietly retaining their 5.1 soundtracks.

MArc.

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post #650 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 09:04 AM
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Marc, that's great, it's working for you. However, the version I have stubbornly insists on downmixing DD5.1 to DD2.0. I think it's obvious there are different versions of MF5 floating about the place, with different features. It matters not, since VS10+ does the trick for me.

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post #651 of 1475 Old 06-20-2006, 06:47 PM
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I did two different burns of the same source material using MF5 and VS10+. The source was 1080i with 384kbps DD5.1. VS10+ "create disc" tool appears in all ways identical to MF5 except you can choose different audio encoding options. MF5 only allows 2-ch while VS10+ allows DD5.1. Neither support 720p.

For both I had the "don't encode MPEG compliant streams" or whatever and both appeared to do the same thing. Both discs do the same thing when played in the A1 and outputting audio over SPDIF with SPDIF set to bitstream: my receiver reports the stream as DD5.1 but the sound is warbly. If I change the SPDIF output to PCM the sound is clear but is only 2-ch.

Is anyone else using SPDIF? I plan on trying the analog out but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

By the way when I finally ask MF5 or VS10+ to make the HD DVD folder the only step that really takes any time is something about remuxing or demuxing video and audio. I wouldn't think that would take as long as it does, so perhaps it is still downmixing my audio.

Does anyone know of any way to play the .EVO output directly on a PC so I can find out if the audio is really 5.1 or corrupted 5.1 or just plain 2.0? I changed the .EVO to .mpg and zoom player opened the file and showed the first frame but it didn't play.
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post #652 of 1475 Old 06-21-2006, 01:39 AM
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dfriend,

when you used VS10+, did you change the audio encoding settings to match the audio in source? Same number of channels and same bitrate etc? I think if you do that, VS10+ will do a direct copy of the audio without any messing around. I believe warbling means the audio got downmixed, or very badly re-encoded from DD5.1 to DD5.1.

Both MF5 and VS10+ seem to very picky about settings and source material. I tested a TS which had a resolution of 1920x1088i and both applications insisted on re-encoding the whole thing.

Quote:


Is anyone else using SPDIF?

I'm using SPDIF exclusively, haven't connected any analogs at all. I can hear "warbling" in discs created with MF5 when source had DD5.1 audio.

Quote:


Does anyone know of any way to play the .EVO output directly on a PC

VLC (www.videolan.org) played it and I believe someone mentioned Windows Mediaplayer Classic (i.e. not the Microsoft one, but the Gabest one) did the trick as well.

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post #653 of 1475 Old 06-21-2006, 06:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

dfriend,

when you used VS10+, did you change the audio encoding settings to match the audio in source? Same number of channels and same bitrate etc? I think if you do that, VS10+ will do a direct copy of the audio without any messing around. I believe warbling means the audio got downmixed, or very badly re-encoded from DD5.1 to DD5.1.

Both MF5 and VS10+ seem to very picky about settings and source material. I tested a TS which had a resolution of 1920x1088i and both applications insisted on re-encoding the whole thing.


I'm using SPDIF exclusively, haven't connected any analogs at all. I can hear "warbling" in discs created with MF5 when source had DD5.1 audio.


VLC (www.videolan.org) played it and I believe someone mentioned Windows Mediaplayer Classic (i.e. not the Microsoft one, but the Gabest one) did the trick as well.



Bottom line is, if MF5 re-encodes the video (it calls it 'converting' ), it downsamples the audio. If it doesn't re-encode, the audio remains untouched.

MDC
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post #654 of 1475 Old 06-21-2006, 07:38 AM
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Marc, that certainly isn't what I experienced with MF5. I *never* let it re-encode/convert video (i.e. always fed it compliant 1080i mpeg2), and yet it always downmixed DD5.1 to DD2.0. We must be running different versions of the application.

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post #655 of 1475 Old 06-21-2006, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Marc, that certainly isn't what I experienced with MF5. I *never* let it re-encode/convert video (i.e. always fed it compliant 1080i mpeg2), and yet it always downmixed DD5.1 to DD2.0. We must be running different versions of the application.

I don't know what logic Ulead was using to remove the 5.1 capability from recent versions. I guess its a good thing I got mine when I did.

Marc.

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post #656 of 1475 Old 06-21-2006, 08:59 AM
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Marc, the logic is that VS10+ is more expensive than MF5.

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post #657 of 1475 Old 06-22-2006, 10:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neo1965 View Post

I tried that approach. I have nero and created a DATA DVD with a folder VIDEO_TS with a a 0 bte .txt file, and then also added a 2nd folder HVDVD_TS in there.

Direct burning the above with Nero to a DVD-R did not play for me. Burning to a +RW does.

The HVDVD_TS folder is an upper level folder, right? It should not work if it is a sub-folder of the VIDEO_TS folder.

I've had no problems with DVD-R disks. Do standard def DVD-R's play? Did you update the Toshiba firmware? I did and it now is a lot less picky with what it plays.
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post #658 of 1475 Old 06-24-2006, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster View Post

Use AviSynth to do it and the results are excellent.

Could I impose upon you to attach your script or whatever you use to do the transcoding?

I have a lot of really good 720p content that I'd like to archive.
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post #659 of 1475 Old 06-24-2006, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrax View Post

The HVDVD_TS folder is an upper level folder, right? It should not work if it is a sub-folder of the VIDEO_TS folder.

I've had no problems with DVD-R disks. Do standard def DVD-R's play? Did you update the Toshiba firmware? I did and it now is a lot less picky with what it plays.

Both are top levels and my firmware is 1.2. Which version of Nero works, and did I miss a step somewhere? I was burning them as DATA DVD, and physically copied the two folders over before burning.
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post #660 of 1475 Old 06-24-2006, 12:01 PM
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You need to burn them as DVD Video. Nero will create VIDEO_TS and AUDIO_TS for you, you just need to move the HD DVD folder over and put a dummy .VOB in the VIDEO_TS folder and burn away.

I use Nero 7 so I can burn DL discs.
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