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post #721 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 03:55 PM
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Joe, download the attachment in this post. The zip file contains several jpegs you might find useful.

 

vs10shots.zip 253.5595703125k . file

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post #722 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 04:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

Joe, download the attachment in this post. The zip file contains several jpegs you might find useful.

Thanks. Very helpful.

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post #723 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texmex View Post

Well, not in my case. All 1080i material from D* is 1280x1088. Whatever recorder you're using is simply recording the D* stream to disc - no encoding going on. RickD somehow got VS10 to accept the 1280x1080 (fixed) stream without re-encoding. RickD?

The 1280x1088i files I run through Balazer's fix1088 utility end up as 1280x1080i (no conversion to 1920). These "fixed" 1280x1080i files are readily accepted by either MF5 or VS10 and are converted to HD DVD folders without reencoding.

I believe it had been established earlier in this thread that MF5 and VS10 accept 3 types of files:

1280x1080i
1440x1080i (HDV format)
1920x1080i

It's the 1088i streams that it does not like...

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post #724 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD_99 View Post

I believe it had been established earlier in this thread that MF5 and VS10 accept 3 types of files:

1280x1080i
1440x1080i (HDV format)
1920x1080i

That's odd, since VS10+'s HD DVD Project settings mention only 1440x1080 and 1920x1080. I don't have any 1280x1080 content, so can't test this. Apparently others have and it works. It's just odd that resolution is not listed by the application.

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post #725 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 06:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pteittinen View Post

That's odd, since VS10+'s HD DVD Project settings mention only 1440x1080 and 1920x1080. I don't have any 1280x1080 content, so can't test this. Apparently others have and it works. It's just odd that resolution is not listed by the application.

I agree that it's odd and somewhat unexpected that the 1280x1080i files work. It might be that the Ulead applications only care that the horizontal resolution is 1080i (and that it not be 720p since apparently no one has gotten 720p to work with these programs)...

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post #726 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 06:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD_99 View Post

The 1280x1088i files I run through Balazer's fix1088 utility end up as 1280x1080i (no conversion to 1920). These "fixed" 1280x1080i files are readily accepted by either MF5 or VS10 and are converted to HD DVD folders without reencoding.

I believe it had been established earlier in this thread that MF5 and VS10 accept 3 types of files:

1280x1080i
1440x1080i (HDV format)
1920x1080i

It's the 1088i streams that it does not like...

Nope, does not work for me, I use fix1088 ends up with 1280 x 1080i vs10 still wants to convert it to either 1920 1080 or 1440 1080. Even, I check 'do not convert compatible mpeg file' option.I just bought the vs10 yesterday.
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post #727 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

2. Ulead Video Studio 10 (or Ulead Movie Factory 5, although full 5.1 sound may be down converted to stereo).

Using MF5, I don't seem to have had the issue of 5.1 sound being downconverted, and therefore haven't bothered with VS10.

ie. Using a typical 1920x1080i mpeg2 .TS with 384kbps DD5.1 audio stream, if I ensure the "Do not convert compliant MPEG files option is checked, the audio stream appears to be passed through untouched (at least with the half dozen or so that I have tried so far).

Apart from the fact that I clearly still have the 5.1 channel sound passed through to my receiver on playback, it is also apparent from the very quick HVDVD_TS folder creation that there is no stream conversion happening (time taken is what you would expect for a simple multi-GB file copy to the new HD-DVD folder / file structure).
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post #728 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 08:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KoolKiwi View Post

Using MF5, I don't seem to have had the issue of 5.1 sound being downconverted, and therefore haven't bothered with VS10.

ie. Using a typical 1920x1080i mpeg2 .TS with 384kbps DD5.1 audio stream, if I ensure the "Do not convert compliant MPEG files option is checked, the audio stream appears to be passed through untouched (at least with the half dozen or so that I have tried so far).

Apart from the fact that I clearly still have the 5.1 channel sound passed through to my receiver on playback, it is also apparent from the very quick HVDVD_TS folder creation that there is no stream conversion happening (time taken is what you would expect for a simple multi-GB file copy to the new HD-DVD folder / file structure).

Same for me and some others, but there are reports of consistent conversion to 2-channel. That's why I thought it best to do this with VideoStudio 10. If your version of MF5 works, then VS10 is unnecessary. If it doesn't, losing 5.1 audio is a serious issue.

I'd like to know how many of us consistently have MF5 downconvert. So far, I think it's just one person reporting this for sure. Anyone else?

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post #729 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 08:26 PM
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I have noted that a couple of my recorded HD-DVD format discs appear to play perfectly in the Toshiba A1 from a video perspective, however when watching the entire disc there are several places where the sound drops out altogether for relatively long periods (ie. maybe 10+ seconds or more).

I am using SP/DIF optical output to my receiver.

Given that the video does not breakup, I am assuming this is not a media compatibility issue (I am using Imation DVD-R and Mitsubishi DVD+R DL). Plus I can also play a full length DVD backup via the upscaled output, with no issues whatsoever (using the same DL media).

I therefore suspect this is directly the result of issues with the captured .TS transport stream.

I have added the step of running through Mpeg2Repair, prior to the MpegVcr conversion, and have written another disc that I will try tonight (although I believe one of the titles had already been passed through Mpeg2Repair with no errors reported).

I also intend testing again tonight using the 5.1 analog outputs to my receiver, on the possibility that the issue is possibly only with the Toshiba's SP/DIF output (although this might be hopefuly thinking).

Has anyone else experienced this issue?

Are you all using 5.1 Analog output, or are you using SP/DIF?
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post #730 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

I'd like to know how many of us consistently have MF5 downconvert. So far, I think it's just one person reporting this for sure. Anyone else?

Thanks Joe.

You would think that this would only be occuring in the case where the stream is not compliant (ie. a stream conversion is required), in which case MF5 does of course only support 2 channel sound (during conversion).

However, this should be obvious, based on the observed time required to create the HD-DVD output folder!
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post #731 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 08:30 PM
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I burned an entire collection of movies (17 in all, shaken not stirred)) that were 1280x1080i in VS 10+ over the last two weeks and had " do not convert compliant mpeg" checked, and VS 10+ did not convert them. Each movie took 10 minutes to create a HD DVD folder that I burned with Nero 7.

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post #732 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 08:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RickD_99 View Post

I agree that it's odd and somewhat unexpected that the 1280x1080i files work. It might be that the Ulead applications only care that the horizontal resolution is 1080i (and that it not be 720p since apparently no one has gotten 720p to work with these programs)...

I downloaded several 720p HD WMV clips at Microsoft site and burned them onto HDDVDs with Ulead. It played fine in A1. So I believe Ulead will accept at least some 720p files.
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post #733 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodobeHD View Post

I downloaded several 720p HD WMV clips at Microsoft site and burned them onto HDDVDs with Ulead. It played fine in A1. So I believe Ulead will accept at least some 720p files.

Thank you, I hereby stand corrected!

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post #734 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 09:16 PM
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Hi Joe,
Great guide. Don't know if you want to include variations on the theme, but if so you could mention that in some cases you can skip step 2 by renaming .m2t files to .mpg. Then MF5 offers to convert the transports stream to a program stream (that's not the exact text of the offer, but that's what it does). It does this conversion by simply remuxing, so there are none of the quality compromises of a re-encoding - you simply end up with a slightly smaller file. Of course, the resolution of the original mpeg2 transport stream has to be one of the reported ones.

Mike
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post #735 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brosnan View Post

Hi Joe,
Great guide. Don't know if you want to include variations on the theme, but if so you could mention that in some cases you can skip step 2 by renaming .m2t files to .mpg. Then MF5 offers to convert the transports stream to a program stream (that's not the exact text of the offer, but that's what it does). It does this conversion by simply remuxing, so there are none of the quality compromises of a re-encoding - you simply end up with a slightly smaller file. Of course, the resolution of the original mpeg2 transport stream has to be one of the reported ones.

Thanks for the input. The guide is something anyone can feel free to contribute to. I'm just delighted that this thread caught my attention. Ultimately, I hope to add screen captures for each section (thanks for the jpeg's, pteittinen). Right now, since I'm sorta busy with some home repairs, I can't add to it quite as fast as I'd like. The whole sectiion on alternate software still has to be added. Any input on that would be appreciated.

The one thing that we all need to be careful of, I think, is that guides like this sometimes assume too much and leave out steps. So, if anyone is trying to duplicate the success some of us have had and runs into trouble, let us know so we can clarify.

I have serious holes in my education about the nature of the MPEG beast, so technical clarifications are very helpful for me. I still don't know exactly why so many of the files I tried to work with early on didn't succeed, but apparently something in my system wasn't friendly to the process. When I uninstalled the old software and installed the full retail versions, things cleared up and I've had much more consistent results since then.

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post #736 of 1475 Old 06-27-2006, 10:36 PM
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Seems to me a good test of whether your MF5 projects are retaining the full 5.1 audio is to create an HD DVD of the inHD test patterns (see earlier in this thread) and see if the sound emanates from the correct speakers when you play it. If you can use MF5 instead of VideoStudio 10, you can save $50 and the process is a little simpler.

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post #737 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 04:42 AM
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I guess I'm the only one whose installation of MF5 keeps on downmixing DD5.1 tracks to DD2.0 consistently. I can't think of any other explanation except my MF5 being some sort of feature-stripped OEM version. VS10+ has no problem with copying audio straight across.

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post #738 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 04:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodobeHD View Post

I downloaded several 720p HD WMV clips at Microsoft site and burned them onto HDDVDs with Ulead. It played fine in A1. So I believe Ulead will accept at least some 720p files.

Very interesting! And you're sure Ulead did not re-encode those WMVs into 1080i MPEG2?

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post #739 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 05:27 AM
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Unfortunately Ulead DOES re-encode WMV Files to MPEG2, I tested it yesterday....

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post #740 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 06:13 AM
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yes, it sure does re-encode because Ulead only has two outputs 1440x1080 and 1920x1080. But Ulead didn't seem to spend any extra time with 720p than 1080i WMV files, both got done in a few minutes.
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post #741 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 06:36 AM
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I finally figured out what I was doing wrong. VS10+ was re-encoding all of my 1280x1080 (fixed) streams. I was creating a new project, dropping the stream on the timeline (habit - I edit a lot of video) then choosing "Share" and "Create Disc". No matter how I changed the settings in the "Create Disc" dialog, it would always re-encode. Well, eventually I started a new project and DIDN'T place the stream on the timeline. Instead, I went directly to "Create Disc", changed the disc type to HDDVD, and THEN added the video. Viola! HDDVD folder created without re-encoding! Clearly this is important and should be made very clear in the guide that Joseph is putting together. Thanks for all the help guys - Tosh is on order and I can't wait to start playing around.

EDIT: The steps in the guide above don't seem to work for me in VS10+. Instead of using the Movie Wizard I need to go straight to "Create Disc" from the tools menu (or "Share"-> "Create Disc").
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post #742 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 07:20 AM
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I figured out and now I love my Toshiba HD DVD, might have to put Blue ray behind and save $ 500.

The fix1088 works, make sure that you do the -s thingy, because if you don't the video stays 1088 and vs10 will recode all day. I burnt 3-4 movies last night onto 1 single DL disc as long as the movies is under 2 hours.

PS videoredo will do the same thing as womble mpeg-vcr, infact I D/L mpeg-vcr, stared at the UGI and I am clueless, what's next. I like video redo better.

In short this confirmed that vs10 will accept:

1280 x 1080i
1440 x 1080i
1920 x 1080i without recode for HD DVD authoring.

This forum and Toshiba HD DVD are really rocking.

Thank you all.
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post #743 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 07:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodobeHD View Post

yes, it sure does re-encode because Ulead only has two outputs 1440x1080 and 1920x1080. But Ulead didn't seem to spend any extra time with 720p than 1080i WMV files, both got done in a few minutes.

One way to check if it is recoded or not just play the clip w windows media check property it will tell you that is is no longer 720p.
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post #744 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

Seems to me a good test of whether your MF5 projects are retaining the full 5.1 audio is to create an HD DVD of the inHD test patterns (see earlier in this thread) and see if the sound emanates from the correct speakers when you play it. If you can use MF5 instead of VideoStudio 10, you can save $50 and the process is a little simpler.

I confirmed that try both MF5 and VS10 decided to pay $100 and get VS10, now all my 7.1 speakers are rocking away, and it does it painlessly. Just love it.
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post #745 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docchak View Post

decided to pay $100 and get VS10

I purchased VS10+ yesterday for $80. There is a World Cup promotion on the Ulead website where you can get a 15% coupon. Click here:

Ulead World Cup Promo

Then click on "Play the World Cup Quiz Game". It's not really a quiz - the answers are obvious. Upon completion you'll get the 15% coupon code. Now look for the special on VS10+ - VideoStudio 10 Plus + GIF Animator 5 for $95. Apply the coupon when you checkout. Total will be around $80. This price is good for 2 more days I think.
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post #746 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by texmex View Post

EDIT: The steps in the guide above don't seem to work for me in VS10+. Instead of using the Movie Wizard I need to go straight to "Create Disc" from the tools menu (or "Share"-> "Create Disc").

I go straight to "Create Disc" too, skipping any Wizards. You can't trust Wizards

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post #747 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 10:50 AM
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I would give my left testicle to know how to patch my 720p MPEG2 files so that Ulead will author them! That would make Ulead as effective as DVD Studio Pro currently is for authoring
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post #748 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 10:58 AM
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Where are most people getting their source files from? Has anyone been able to get hd material from an HDTivo?

thanks
michael
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post #749 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster View Post

I would give my left testicle to know how to patch my 720p MPEG2 files so that Ulead will author them! That would make Ulead as effective as DVD Studio Pro currently is for authoring

I tried using DVDPatcher to do that with every combination of settings I could think of. Ulead choked every single time.
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post #750 of 1475 Old 06-28-2006, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster View Post

I would give my left testicle to know how to patch my 720p MPEG2 files so that Ulead will author them! That would make Ulead as effective as DVD Studio Pro currently is for authoring

Ok, I'm working on this. I modified the headers in a 720p file (1280x720 59.94fps) to make it look like 1080i (1280x1080 29.97fps) - don't try to watch the resulting file; it's a mess. I ran through the normal Create Disc process in VS10+ and.... IT WORKED! VS10+ created the HDDVD folder without re-encoding the video file. Now, unfortunately, I don't yet have the player to try the output on (it's coming). My guess is that we'll need to patch the headers in the EVO file back to 720p. Since 720p is part of HDDVD spec, the player shouldn't have a problem with it. If I had a player I'd try both ways (left with 1080i headers, patched back to 720p). Biggest issue right now is that there isn't a tool that I can find to patch these headers easily either way - so I'm in the process of developing one. I'll keep you posted...

Oh, and Grandmaster, thanks for the offer, but you can keep your testicle even if we do get this working.
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