The official AVS Guide to HD DVD Authoring. - Page 37 - AVS Forum
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post #1081 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Q View Post

I have both the Samsung blu-ray (VERY recently acquired) and the Toshiba A1 (for ~6 months).
So I am interested in a BD disk creation process just like we now have for HDDVD's,thanks to Joseph Clark (and others).


We are able to make HD DVD on DVD+/-R's because you all figured out the HDDVD format :
VIDEO_TS ---> video_ts.vob
HDDVD_TS ----> hv001t0x.evo

Where:
The video_ts.vob file merely needed to be a blank file.
The .EVO files are HDDVD compliant files made by Ulead Movie factory



What is the format of BD's?

If we knew the directory format of a BD disk,like we do on HD DVD disks, then it seems to me all we would need is a tool to make BD compliant files.

We are using MF5 for making compliant HDDVD files so it would not be a stretch to expect Ulead to come out with a new version with support for BD.

Joe

For those of you still wondering if the BD can do the same thing as the HDDVD here the answer is YES. The process is identical to that of HDDVD outlined on this thread with the only change being the folder coming out Ulead MF5 being BDMV instead of HV_DVD.

The only catches of this approach are BD player must be Samsung (Sonys don't work!) and the bit rate stay under 20mb/sec.

I burned some HD shows I recorded OTA at 17mb onto a DVD+R and Samsung played flawlessly just like the original broadcast.

Maybe Joe Clark should consider creating such a sticky for BD software forum too.
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post #1082 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodobeHD View Post

its VideoRedo.

I updated my version of VRD and I STILL have the very, very slow load times into Ulead MF5. DAMN THIS IS FRUSTRATING!!

I tried using MPEG2VCR on it and it introduces artifacting for this mpg file (original is TS file). VideoRedo looks excellent, but just plain wont load in MF5.

Anyone found any tricks that might help out?

For some reason, MPEG2VCR makes my mpg file look like crap, otherwise, I would use it.

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post #1083 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 11:58 AM
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I have an error in my EVO file that hangs up my Tosiba HD-A1 player. Basically I need to be able to cut about 2-3 seconds out the HV001T03.EVO file to fix the problem. Are there any tools that allow me to do this?
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post #1084 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GodobeHD View Post

For those of you still wondering if the BD can do the same thing as the HDDVD here the answer is YES. The process is identical to that of HDDVD outlined on this thread with the only change being the folder coming out Ulead MF5 being BDMV instead of HV_DVD.

The only catches of this approach are BD player must be Samsung (Sonys don't work!) and the bit rate stay under 20mb/sec.

I burned some HD shows I recorded OTA at 17mb onto a DVD+R and Samsung played flawlessly just like the original broadcast.

Maybe Joe Clark should consider creating such a sticky for BD software forum too.

1) I know this is an HD DVD forum, but since there is so much knowedge here and still so many unknowns, it really makes sense to work together. Those producing high def DVDs for weddings, etc will need to burn for both formats.

2) Exactly how did you get Ulead MF5 to output BDMV?

3) Exactly what is the max data rate?

4) Interesting the new Sony's don't work as they also can't play BD R or RW yet. So it looks like everything Sony is missing the firmware to read BDMV! (Despite the fact you can burn these with a VAIO!)

5) And, it looks like the A2 and Samsung are both limited to ATSC rate of 19.4Mbps.

6) But, why did Toshiba lower the limit? Perhaps it was an accident. Does anyone have any friends at Toshiba?

7) Of course, AVC and VC-1 will be great at 20Mbps, BUT the encode times will be so painful that those with MPEG-2 sources will likely not bother.

8) Current AVCHD discs are well under 20Mbps -- although there is a 24Mbps camcorder coming in 2007. Which suggests a future problem unless both BD and HD DVD systems can play 25Mbps. That would mean Samsung will need a patch and Toshiba may need to remove the limit on the A2.

9) Excellent comparison of Sammy and A1 at:
http://www.film-talk.com/forums/lofi...hp/t11362.html

However, the comment that the Sammy will not play red laser unless it has ACSS appears to be wrong -- unless MF5P creates that when it makes a BDMV file.
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post #1085 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 12:45 PM
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Still no 5.1.....even after VideoRedo....very frustrating.

Now I am thinking the .TS file might just be 2.0 (even though I was told it was 5.1).

What's the best way to tell the audio properties of a file?
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post #1086 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 02:28 PM
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Sure enough, it is 5.1....converting to the .mpg keeps the 5.1 channels, just confirmed.

So, it is MF5 that is somehow converting it to 2.0 PCM only....

sample info from a .ts file:

File Name: O:\\Ep5Cmax\\crossroads.0005.ts
File Size: 104857564 ( 0.10 GB )
Program Duration: 00:01:31.26
File Type: TS Stream
Encoding: MPEG 2
Video stream Id: 17 (x11)
Encoding Dimensions: 1920 x 1080
Display Size: 1920 x 1080
Aspect Ratio: 16/9
Frame Rate: 29.97 FPS
Bit Rate: 14.000 Mbps
VBV_Buffer: 976 KB
Profile: Main/High
Progressive: Prog or Int
Chroma: 4:2:0
Audio Format: 5.1
Audio Stream Id: AC3: 20 (x14)
Audio Bit Rate: 384 Kbps
Audio Sampling Rate: 48000 Hz

Then from the .mpg I created from all .TS files:


File Name: O:\\Empire_b.mpg
File Size: 8342892548 ( 7.77 GB )
Program Duration: 02:04:09.11
File Type: PS - MPEG2
Encoding: MPEG 2
Video stream Id: xE0
Encoding Dimensions: 1920 x 1080
Display Size: 1920 x 1080
Aspect Ratio: 16/9
Frame Rate: 29.97 FPS
Bit Rate: 14.000 Mbps
VBV_Buffer: 976 KB
Profile: Main/High
Progressive: Prog or Int
Chroma: 4:2:0
Audio Format: 5.1
Audio Stream Id: AC3: 0 (x80)
Audio Bit Rate: 384 Kbps
Audio Sampling Rate: 48000 Hz

and to confirm, in MF5 I am making sure that I check the box that says "don not convert compliant MPG files"
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post #1087 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-v-c View Post

Exactly how did you get Ulead MF5 to output BDMV?

I use MF5 version 5.0.0000.0. That version has BD authoring as an option along with HDDVD. So you burn the BD to a folder just like what you do with the HDDVD. Then the folder MF5 creates becomes BDMV instead of HV_DVD.
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post #1088 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 02:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruson View Post

Sure enough, it is 5.1....converting to the .mpg keeps the 5.1 channels, just confirmed.

So, it is MF5 that is somehow converting it to 2.0 PCM only....

and to confirm, in MF5 I am making sure that I check the box that says "don not convert compliant MPG files"

I aleady posted that MF5P flags the file, or converts it to, 2/0.

You must use MF5P only to make a video file. Then externally mux with an AC3 file, and burn that. I have forgotten how I did it back in Nov. I only did it to confirm MF5P was broken.

You are confirming my finding. But, if anyone has gotten an AC3 file thru MF5P, we would all like to hear how.

PS -- if MF5P is only changing the audio TYPE header, it should be possible to patch it back to 5.1. Any takers?
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post #1089 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-v-c View Post

I aleady posted that MF5P flags the file, or converts it to, 2.0.

You must use MF5P only to make a video file. Then externally mux with an AC3 file, and burn that. I have forgotten how I did it back in Nov. I only did it to confirm MF5P was broken.

You are confirming my finding. But, if anyone has gotten an AC3 file thru MF5P, we would all like to hear how.

PS -- if MF5P is only changing the audio TYPE header, it should be possible to patch it back to 5.1. Any takers?

I have tried everything with MF5 and no luck. If you used MF5 to create the HD DVD folder, how did you edit the audio in the folder? Just wondering because it would seem that MF5 is the last step, before burning with Nero.

I don't see how you could add the 5.1 track to the separated files in the folder....
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post #1090 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelZ View Post

Dude, I think 384Kbs is 2.0 audio (could be dolby 2.0) wrapped in 5.1 ac3 stream. Usually, 5.1 is 448Kbs, at least that what I have noticed.

Ummm....No....."dude."

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post #1091 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 03:06 PM
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No, you can have 5.1 and 384k.

However, I was looking at the mpg settings and noticed it says:

Audio Stream Id: AC3: 0 (x80)

The .TS says:
Audio Stream Id: AC3: 20 (x14)

Could that be it?

If anyone wants to help, PM me and I will set up a sample for download so you can try to convert it!
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post #1092 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruson View Post

I have tried everything with MF5 and no luck. If you used MF5 to create the HD DVD folder, how did you edit the audio in the folder? Just wondering because it would seem that MF5 is the last step, before burning with Nero.

I don't see how you could add the 5.1 track to the separated files in the folder....

I think I used another app (MPEGstream clip, perhaps) to open the VOB and replace the PCM with AC-3 and then remuxed. Anyway, the result had 5.1.

But, the point is HOW to get MF5P to not convert 5.1 to 2.0.

However, I suspect it's because Dolby offers a free license for 2/0 and, for legal reasons, Ulead must output only 2/0. Therefore, it must convert. We need a more expensive version of MF5P that allows 5.1 output.

What about using Pinnacle Studio 10.7?
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post #1093 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 05:45 PM
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I tried Vegas 7.0 but no luck.

I have not tried Pinnacle Studio yet (waiting for it to arrive, got it free).

So no one here has gotten 5.1 to work with MF5. Right?
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post #1094 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 05:47 PM
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Earlier I posted:

5) And, it looks like the A2 and Samsung are both limited to ATSC rate of 19.4Mbps.

6) But, why did Toshiba lower the limit?

9) Excellent comparison of Sammy and A1 at:
http://www.film-talk.com/forums/lof...php/t11362.html

However, the comment that the Sammy will not play red laser unless it has ACSS appears to be wrong -- unless MF5P creates that when it makes a BDMV file.


PERHAPS under pressure from the studios, without ACSS the limit is now 20Mbps. The A1 slipped out before Japan Inc. agreed to this limit. (Like the first PS3 that output upscaled SD as 720p via component, until the firmware patch removed that option.) Which means:

A) the A1 is very good for your own work.

B) That to go above 20Mbps, software will need to set some kind of ACSS flag. Or, possibly we will never be able to go above 20Mbps.

C) The coming 24Mbps AVCHD camcorder will write some kind of ACSS flag.

D) No AVC or VC-1 encoding may be supported without an ACSS flag. Perhaps that too will have a limit.

The point being is to prevent anyone but Hollywood from burning content with a picture quality equal to BD or HD DVD. Or, to prevent red laser copies of movies with the same quality as BD or HD DVD.
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post #1095 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 06:06 PM
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So was anyone able to make heads or tails of the stuff that i posted about x264 from that thead??? Isn't that what we're all waiting for right now?

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post #1096 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 06:28 PM
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back to the 5.1 issue and MF5,

Please post your version of MF5 if you HAVE gotten 5.1 audio to work.

Thanks!
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post #1097 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruson View Post

back to the 5.1 issue and MF5,

Please post your version of MF5 if you HAVE gotten 5.1 audio to work.

Thanks!

I use DVD MF 5 Plus, ver 5.30.0107.0 and 5.1 audio is perfect!

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post #1098 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replayrob View Post

I use DVD MF 5 Plus, ver 5.30.0107.0 and 5.1 audio is perfect!

Great! Exactly how do you get 5.1 audio into MF?

Is it with the video or are you ADDing it?

What steps do you use.
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post #1099 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 07:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by replayrob View Post

I use DVD MF 5 Plus, ver 5.30.0107.0 and 5.1 audio is perfect!

Hey Rob,

Can you let me know your complete process?

Here is what I do:

1. Use VideoRedo to conver the .TS file into a .MPG file
2. Open MF5, choose new project, select HD DVD. open the .MPG file from the top left menu, click on settings and make sure that "do not convert compliant MPGs" is checked.

No menus, no chapters, burn to HD DVD directory.

3. Open Nero, choose UDF, no multisession and force playback. Burn to DVD.


Audio always comes out 2.0 for some reason...I have triple checked and the file, as listed above is 5.1.

I have now tried this on MF5 plus and had the same results.

The 5.1 audio is in my .MPG (or .ts too).

I have tried this with multiple .TS files and all end up as 2.0 PCM only. VERY frustrating and I am about to lose it!!!
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post #1100 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruson View Post

1. Use VideoRedo to conver the .TS file into a .MPG file.

I never used VR.

I exported .mpg from my NLE as a separate file. Then output the AC3 as a separate .ac3 file and ADDED it to my Video file already imported into MF5P.

Try this while you wait for Rob's answer.
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post #1101 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 08:27 PM
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Thanks,

I guess while I wait for responses, I will check out other options....
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post #1102 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gruson View Post

Hey Rob,

Can you let me know your complete process?

Here is what I do:

1. Use VideoRedo to conver the .TS file into a .MPG file
2. Open MF5, choose new project, select HD DVD. open the .MPG file from the top left menu, click on settings and make sure that "do not convert compliant MPGs" is checked.

No menus, no chapters, burn to HD DVD directory.

3. Open Nero, choose UDF, no multisession and force playback. Burn to DVD.


Audio always comes out 2.0 for some reason...I have triple checked and the file, as listed above is 5.1.

I have now tried this on MF5 plus and had the same results.

The 5.1 audio is in my .MPG (or .ts too).

I have tried this with multiple .TS files and all end up as 2.0 PCM only. VERY frustrating and I am about to lose it!!!

Gruson, I believe I have the same set of software as yours and I always get 5.1 with my HDDVD from recorded HDTV shows.
My workflow is almost identical to yours except the last one. I open Nero 7 burning rom and then pick DVD-video. Then I drag the HV_DVD folder into the tree and add the dummy file video_ts.vob into video_ts folder. And then I burn the disk. It always comes out as a clone to the original material both in video and audio quality. Hope that helps. Good luck.
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post #1103 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 09:28 PM
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Gruson, I use MF5 version 5.0 and have only found 3 ways to end up with your problem.

1. multipart TS files that start off as 2.0 and then change to 5.1. after combining them they show as 5.1 in videoredo but MF5 will process as 2.0. I always check the first TS file in videoredo (ctl +L) to get info and cut any 2.0 video off the beginning.

2. Forget to change the audio data rate to match your video, if you set MF5 for 384K and the video is 448K MF5 will convert the video and you'll end up with 2.0.

3. If you have a video with a strange resolution, high data rate etc that makes MF5 convert the video to a compliant form you will end up with 2.0 audio.

hope this helps

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post #1104 of 3176 Old 12-29-2006, 10:20 PM
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Robert,

Please check your PMs.

Thanks!
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post #1105 of 3176 Old 12-30-2006, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-v-c View Post

Earlier I posted:

PERHAPS under pressure from the studios, without ACSS the limit is now 20Mbps. The A1 slipped out before Japan Inc. agreed to this limit. (Like the first PS3 that output upscaled SD as 720p via component, until the firmware patch removed that option.)
The point being is to prevent anyone but Hollywood from burning content with a picture quality equal to BD or HD DVD. Or, to prevent red laser copies of movies with the same quality as BD or HD DVD.

Well, I guess that means that we'd better not do any firmware update on our A1 offered by Toshiba.

I am on the verge of buying a second DVD player. If A2 is much less than A1 in many respects as it now appears I guess finding a bargain A1 would be my only option.

This sort of confirms the fear many of us had here that A1 may be the last of its kind. Though red laser HD is in HDDVD specs there is no garruanttee that there won't be any bit rate cap. That leaves the red laser HD just an empty promise.
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post #1106 of 3176 Old 12-30-2006, 08:26 AM
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This is very disappointing about the A2 problems with HDV. I purchased the A1 some time ago on the merits of this thread that I would have a distributable format for 1080i HDV camcorder video. And that process worked!

But if you're pursuing a distribution format for HDV video, it seems the A2 has pushed us back to square one. Of course I can still play HDV on the A1, but what good as a format for distribution if Toshiba has dropped support for 25 mbs in the second generation?

I'm sure this is not an objection for more than 1% of HD DVD owners, but going forward I can't support the format because it doesn't support me.

It's just too bad more people didn't embrace the hi-def multi media players like the AVel LinkPlayer2, Buffalo and a few others that were mostly stillborn. Those players did everything and so much more than HD DVD or Blue Ray except satisfy the copy protection paranoias of the hollywood studios.
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post #1107 of 3176 Old 12-30-2006, 09:11 AM
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Hey Everyone. This is an excellent thread. I have one question. When I play my videos using the HDA1 I have to switch the audio to PCM from Bitstream when using the optical output. I have two HDA1s in my house. One is hooked up to my home theater via analog outs and one is hooked up via optical. How do I get my HD-DVDs to work through the Optical outputs on my HD-A1 without having to change the output settings. In MF5, I can select MPEG, LPCM, and Dolby Digital. All of my films are from my HV-10 Camcorder and are MPEG audio. When I select that in MF5, it still will not output until I change the audio settings in the HDA1 to PCM.
Any Ideas?
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post #1108 of 3176 Old 12-30-2006, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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My A2 plays HDV content. Maybe we should do a poll, as to who is having success and who isn't. According to texmex, some time ago, red laser support is built into the HD DVD spec, so that won't be going away. If the problems being reported were a result of a Hollywood reaction to this process, then why target HDV at a higher bitrate? The bitrate of virtually every program being recorded from satellite and cable falls below HDV's bitrate.

I've also had no problem getting 5.1 audio to pass through. There was a report of an early (maybe OEM) version of MF5 having this problem, I think, but that issue hasn't been reported for a long time.

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post #1109 of 3176 Old 12-30-2006, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by paintit77 View Post

Hey Everyone. This is an excellent thread. I have one question. When I play my videos using the HDA1 I have to switch the audio to PCM from Bitstream when using the optical output. I have two HDA1s in my house. One is hooked up to my home theater via analog outs and one is hooked up via optical. How do I get my HD-DVDs to work through the Optical outputs on my HD-A1 without having to change the output settings. In MF5, I can select MPEG, LPCM, and Dolby Digital. All of my films are from my HV-10 Camcorder and are MPEG audio. When I select that in MF5, it still will not output until I change the audio settings in the HDA1 to PCM.
Any Ideas?

I have this problem, too. I use Adobe Premier and output audio fro all my projects as Dolby Digital.

Joe Clark

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post #1110 of 3176 Old 12-30-2006, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Joseph Clark View Post

My A2 plays HDV content. Maybe we should do a poll, as to who is having success and who isn't. According to texmex, some time ago, red laser support is built into the HD DVD spec, so that won't be going away. If the problems being reported were a result of a Hollywood reaction to this process, then why target HDV at a higher bitrate? The bitrate of virtually every program being recorded from satellite and cable falls below HDV's bitrate.

If I can find an X2 at a retailer connected to an HDTV, I'll try inserting one of my disks. If your X2 is able to play HDV at 25mbs, there is hope then. I agree with you, would make no sense to "target" HDV's higher bitrate, so the plot may not be insidious.
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