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post #91 of 130 Old 01-12-2007, 03:26 PM
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I don't know, but yes that's a good indication.

Of course Clarence took the images through several more steps, prior to what you did, and while it sounds like they didn't get converted in a material way during his process, I don't know that anyone has done a before-and-after comparison of the patterns, like what was done by dr1394 with the original disc image created from his patterns.

But at this point, my money would be on the 360 altering things, assuming that the original TS files were okay. (You're not using VGA on the xbox, right?)

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post #92 of 130 Old 01-12-2007, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post

I don't know, but yes that's a good indication.

Of course Clarence took the images through several more steps, prior to what you did, and while it sounds like they didn't get converted in a material way during his process, I don't know that anyone has done a before-and-after comparison of the patterns, like what was done by dr1394 with the original disc image created from his patterns.

But at this point, my money would be on the 360 altering things, assuming that the original TS files were okay. (You're not using VGA on the xbox, right?)

I did the same exact process that Clarence did: VideoRedo->MF5->Nero7. Followed the steps verbatim -- including enabling the secret menu option in VideoRedo (according the HD-DVD Authoring Guide in this forum).

I'd bet the XB360 output is not to spec, but how to be sure? And more importantly, how to adjust it, or adjust for it? I'm using Component, not VGA output on the XB360.

I've got two or three more things I can try. I can burn a BD disc and play it on my laptop and PS3 into the Lumagen. I can also play the video files directly from my laptop and output to the Lumagen. That should give me three more points of comparison.
Maybe I'll try using my BD-enabled laptop to create a BD

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post #93 of 130 Old 01-12-2007, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post

A very nice feature of the Lumagen is the ability to read the IRE value of the frame buffer at the center of the screen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PencilGeek View Post

I'd bet the XB360 output is not to spec, but how to be sure? And more importantly, how to adjust it, or adjust for it? I'm using Component, not VGA output on the XB360.

I've got two or three more things I can try...

I've also got the Lumagen HDP. I've never tried the IRE frame buffer reading (or is this just on the Pro?). Let me know how to check it and I'll try it with the test disc on my Toshiba HD-A1 to check dr1394's IRE patterns.
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post #94 of 130 Old 01-13-2007, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

I've also got the Lumagen HDP. I've never tried the IRE frame buffer reading (or is this just on the Pro?). Let me know how to check it and I'll try it with the test disc on my Toshiba HD-A1 to check dr1394's IRE patterns.

It's only availble through the Lumagen service menu (yes, the Lumagen has a service menu). Once service menu is enabled, you hit Menu->IN->COLR->CTMP. CTMP is the gamma adjustment menu. The calculated IRE is displayed at the bottom-center of the screen.

Call Lumagen to get service mode codes, if you don't already have them.

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post #95 of 130 Old 01-18-2007, 10:15 PM
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When comparing component against HDMI (both at 1080i) with my Toshiba HD-A2 tonight.....on the 20-35mhz burst pattern, on rows 2-3, the vertical lines appear more solid or white on component input; with HDMI, the lines aren't quite as solid - you start to see lighter, thinner shades of gray lines. Is HDMI showing more or less resolution here?

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post #96 of 130 Old 01-20-2007, 02:10 PM
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Thanks for such great information on how to burn this for the X360 HD-DVD!

Is there any chance you could please compile all the test patterns into the zip?

Thanks!
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post #97 of 130 Old 01-20-2007, 03:05 PM
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Sure, I'll try to do that tonight.

I also want to double check the IRE values.
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post #98 of 130 Old 01-20-2007, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

Sure, I'll try to do that tonight.

I also want to double check the IRE values.

Great, thanks!! I think he posted some recent additions to the patterns too.

Also does anyone have any tips for a cheap way to purchase Nero 7? Any online discounts or coupons etc?
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post #99 of 130 Old 01-20-2007, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

When comparing component against HDMI (both at 1080i) with my Toshiba HD-A2 tonight.....on the 20-35mhz burst pattern, on rows 2-3, the vertical lines appear more solid or white on component input; with HDMI, the lines aren't quite as solid - you start to see lighter, thinner shades of gray lines. Is HDMI showing more or less resolution here?

The 20 to 35 MHz burst pattern is a little difficult to eyeball. It's really intended for an oscilloscope measurement of component outputs. However, you can look at a full size image of the pattern to get an idea of how it really looks and then try to see how your actual display differs from that.



A better pattern to use would be the sweep pattern I just added recently.

http://www.w6rz.net/sweeps.zip

The further toward the right that the displayed image shows detail indicates a higher frequency response.



Ron

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
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post #100 of 130 Old 01-20-2007, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarence View Post

Sure, I'll try to do that tonight.

I also want to double check the IRE values.

The patterns are correct. At some point in a calibration chain, you have to know that something is a reference. For clocks, it's an atomic reference. For thermometers, it's boiling water. For MPEG-2 test patterns, it's the decoded YCbCr samples.

Here's a dump of a portion of the irewindow100.ts pattern decoded YCbCr file:



The format is Cb Y Cr Y Cb Y .....

Hex 0xeb = 235 = 100 IRE.
Hex 0x10 = 16 = 0 IRE
Hex 0x80 for both Cb and Cr = no chroma (black and white)

Ron

HD MPEG-2 Test Patterns http://www.w6rz.net
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post #101 of 130 Old 01-20-2007, 06:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post

The patterns are correct.

I think Clarence was commenting as to whether the 360 messed up the levels during playback.
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post #102 of 130 Old 01-20-2007, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr1394 View Post

The 20 to 35 MHz burst pattern is a little difficult to eyeball. It's really intended for an oscilloscope measurement of component outputs. However, you can look at a full size image of the pattern to get an idea of how it really looks and then try to see how your actual display differs from that.



A better pattern to use would be the sweep pattern I just added recently.

http://www.w6rz.net/sweeps.zip

The further toward the right that the displayed image shows detail indicates a higher frequency response.



Ron

Thanks, Ron. The sweep pattern is a .ts file --- having a hard time converting it to an .iso - any suggestions?

Also, which pattern (maybe this sweep pattern) will help me adjust sharpness --- and is there a pattern other than the color bar to help me set brightness? Thanks.

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post #103 of 130 Old 01-21-2007, 04:23 AM
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Just to clarify on a non progressive 1080i tv there will always be flickering? On my RPTV the the top strip flashes on the 1,2,3,4 strip pattern. The tv is not progressive. It does 1080i only.
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post #104 of 130 Old 01-21-2007, 09:09 PM
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Ok, good informative thread but once you get the Iso file into a disk and run it through the HD-A1 how do we test this patterns are they somewhat the same as AVI, and DVE but better, in other words how do you read them and make adjustments to your display.

Ralph
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post #105 of 130 Old 01-23-2007, 08:37 PM
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Any responses to the above question, some one must know the answer or partial answer.

Ralph
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post #106 of 130 Old 01-23-2007, 09:00 PM
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Vertical Resolution Patterns show you what the resolution capability of your system is

Vertical Resolution Pattern with Motion are similar but with the added element of motion, which can alter results

Horizontal Resolution Patterns - similar to above

Color Bar Patterns -- let you set the COLOR and TINT controls, among other things. here you get a version for the HD color standard and the SD color standard. You'll need colored filters at the very least, to use these.

IRE Window Patterns -- this are useful for setting grayscale, but require instrumentation for measuring the results and (usually) access to the service menu, to be useful. Also useful for gamma settings (again with instrumentation for measurement).

More color test patterns, again useful for calibration but require a measuring device.

IRE Full Field Patterns - again, for calibrating gray scale and gamma

More color tests.

IRE Bar Patterns - I find this useful for setting contrast (make sure the brightest area is distinct from the second brightest area) and brightness (ditto with the darkest two shades)

Ramp and IRE Bar Pattern -- similar idea, don't recall this one

Crosshatch with Circles Pattern - useful for checking convergence and geometry

Y/C Delay Patterns - can see y/c delay (like on the AVIA disc)

Overscan and Pixel Crop Pattern - can see how much overscan there is

A/V Sync Pattern -- makes sure sound and video match

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post #107 of 130 Old 01-24-2007, 10:57 AM
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Thanks you Nathan, at least I now know how it works. How is The Bay Area doing? Was station In Alameda Naval Air station in the late 60's and left the area about the time that the BART system was going to open.

What are the routes for the Bart?? Should had not left the area, it is the most beautiful area in the world.

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post #108 of 130 Old 01-26-2007, 02:08 PM
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Well are the resolution tests valid for an interlaced display? What should I be seeing with the 1 pixel 1920 x 1080i pattern?
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post #109 of 130 Old 01-26-2007, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by korg View Post

Just to clarify on a non progressive 1080i tv there will always be flickering? On my RPTV the the top strip flashes on the 1,2,3,4 strip pattern. The tv is not progressive. It does 1080i only.

If you have a true 1080i display the expected result would be to just see flicker on the top bar. This is because the fields are alternating between all white and all black.
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post #110 of 130 Old 01-26-2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abr27440 View Post

If you have a true 1080i display the expected result would be to just see flicker on the top bar. This is because the fields are alternating between all white and all black.

Thanks for the quick reply I appreciate it!
On my TV the top strip flashes black and white the rest show black and white lines. However, the horizontal full field 1 pixel 1920 x 1080i just shows a grey field with no black lines the 2 pixel pattern shows the lines. So I'm not sure whats going on there.
The 20-35 mhz burst pattern shows the black lines in all the boxes.
My display is an older rptv with 9inch tubes so I'm curious as to whether it can truely do 1080i.
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post #111 of 130 Old 02-21-2007, 04:29 PM
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what program did dr1394 use to build the hdtv test pattern .iso image?

It plays fine on the HD-A1 with 2.x firmware.
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post #112 of 130 Old 02-27-2007, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post

Thanks for such great information on how to burn this for the X360 HD-DVD!

Is there any chance you could please compile all the test patterns into the zip?

Thanks!

Any word on this yet? I just burned the 360 disk and it worked. But, other than the geometry and overscan patterns it doesn't really do me any good.

I have a Spyder2 and HCFR software.... and I need patterns like what GetGray offers.... like (0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, and 100% Grayscale Window patterns) and Brightness/ contrast pattern and Rec 709 color window patterns.

Those would pretty much do it for me. All these other patterns are to "Over my head."
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post #113 of 130 Old 02-27-2007, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate358 View Post

Any word on this yet? I just burned the 360 disk and it worked. But, other than the geometry and overscan patterns it doesn't really do me any good.

I have a Spyder2 and HCFR software.... and I need patterns like what GetGray offers.... like (0, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 90, and 100% Grayscale Window patterns) and Brightness/ contrast pattern and Rec 709 color window patterns.

Those would pretty much do it for me. All these other patterns are to "Over my head."

Yes agreed it would be great to get a group of the traditional patterns such as ANSI checkerboard, IRE full field and windows from 0 to 100 IRE in steps of 5, and so forth.

Since you are using HCFR you can hook up a PC (if you have a DVI output in your graphics card or pick one up for $50) and use it to generate those patterns.
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post #114 of 130 Old 02-28-2007, 02:21 PM
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So it looks like no one cares about calibrating their 360 HD Add-on..... Sad, sad, sad.
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post #115 of 130 Old 02-28-2007, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by nate358 View Post

So it looks like no one cares about calibrating their 360 HD Add-on..... Sad, sad, sad.

Why don't you make your own disk? Get the patterns you want from w6rz.net and follow the instructions in the sticky thread "The Official AVS Guide to HD DVD Authoring".

Robert
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post #116 of 130 Old 02-28-2007, 05:56 PM
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Looks like that's what I'm going to have to do.... here's the thing....
I've never used any of these programs... I don't even have a DVD burner ( I'll be using a friends) So it's going to be a lot of work for me! And trial and error is going to take even longer.

I just find it very interesting that Clarence found out how to get these patterns to work on the 360 back in late November and no one (even Clarence) seems to want to put all these patterns from w6ras.net together! Maybe I don't know what all this entails and that doesn't make me feel any better about trying to tackle this project when it hasn't been done after 3 months!

I'm just at a loss of words that I'm the only person other than "lovingdvd" that needs these patterns.

I consider myself as being a person that uses new technology, but dang I didn't know I was at the forefront!

I just need to know....
1) is anyone else pursuing this?
2) am I the only one that needs this?
3) am I wasting my time?
4) would others benefit from this?
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post #117 of 130 Old 02-28-2007, 06:01 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, my reasons for creating a disc and starting this thread were stated in my opening post. I think most people are waiting for VE or Avia.

Robert
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post #118 of 130 Old 02-28-2007, 07:38 PM
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psht.... that could be years! Well it looks like I have 15 days until my trial versions are up.
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post #119 of 130 Old 03-05-2007, 01:35 PM
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ok I downloaded VideoReDo+ and I can't figure out how to add the patterns together... I can play each pattern I don't know how to join them.

I'm trying to add these patterns in this order:
ramp
RedWindow709
GreenWindow709
BlueWindow709
YellowWindow709
CyanWindow709
MagentaWindow709
Bars709
IREwindow0
IREwindow10
IREwindow20
IREwindow30
IREwindow40
IREwindow50
IREwindow60
IREwindow70
IREwindow80
IREwindow90
IREwindow100
IREsplitbars
IREbars
Overscancrop
sweeps

I can't see why anyone would need all the other patterns.

I'm guessing that the Ramp pattern is for calibrating Contrast/Brightness, all the color709s for color decoder, and the IRE patterns for Greyscale.

I'm also wondering if it is possible to make a chapter repeat automatically and make it so you have to skip forward to the next pattern.... like it's done on the GetGray disk

Clarence, if you know how to do this or could do it yourself please let me know.
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post #120 of 130 Old 03-05-2007, 02:36 PM
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Nate - can you also add the crosshatch pattern for testing convergence?
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