"I'm surprise you didn't Boycott Fox!" - Anyone here doing it? - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 07:40 PM
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Thanks for the suggestion, NYG, but that's not an option in this case. Anyway, it was only $20, so I'll chalk it up to a lesson that I now can't trust what Fox prints on their repackaging of previously issued titles. I actually have quite a few non-anomorphic Fox DVDs (Disney would come in second), and I have always double checked their titles to see if it's anamophic (but this is a first). Anyway, I buy very few DVDs now, especially with the improving HD DVD selection.

BTW, congrads on the Giants victory.

Redskin Fan
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post #272 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsd2005 View Post

Well the BD players have all been announced. Despite some speculation on this site that someone was going to announce a cheap player, that's not happening.

Not this year, but your post was about something you heard might come out next year.


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Originally Posted by tsd2005 View Post

The HD-DVD players have not been announced. All I know is what I'm told: Chinese Players CHEAP about half the cost of the cheapest Toshiba.

Well if you can't tell us who told you this don't be surprised that most people consider this as just another rumor. Heck, I heard a similar rumor back in spring when cheap Chinese HD DVD players were supposedly coming out this fall.


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Originally Posted by tsd2005 View Post

The PS3 was shown to a number of people playing BD product. To me the Samsung has better PQ and definately better AQ.

So where did you see the PS3 demonstration at though?
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post #273 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsd2005 View Post

You just don't get it. A $499 game machine that is ok at BD is good for you. That is fine. You're not everyone. The majority doesn't play games. The early adaptors definately don't play games.

Boycotting a company that wants to force the hands of the consumer to spend more money than they need to is SMART. I refused to buy DIVX, and I'm refusing to buy BD. When FOX said they were BD, I KNEW right then that the consumer's best choice was HD-DVD.

The pitch worked on Disney and LG in the begining. Then they started seeing HD-DVD sales, and then they realised it does matter that HD-DVD player manufacturing is STEADY and CHEAPER. Real world figures will be that Chinese $250 or $300 HD-DVD players will outsell PS3. The big reason is they will be available.

Sony will BARELY be able to get 400,000 players total for their release. They will be lucky to have a million by the end of the year. Their manufacturing issues are REAL WORLD. They aren't vapor PR talk.

MS will have 500,000 HD-DVD addons ready. Toshiba will have 500,000 HD-DVD players SHIPPED by January 1st, 2007. I bet they both sell quite a few of them. Add the 100,000 from RCA. Sanyo may be entering the game with their $400 player in Wal-Mart (although their market research shows that a $300 price point is smarter for Wal-Mart, so they may holdoff until they can make money at that price point).

Don't be surprised if Ron Shwartz uses this weeks event to be the one where he announced LG's support of HD-DVD. I know there is a lot of pressure on him to do so.

Just to add to this conversation, I hinted to my wife about the PS3 to play blu ray movies as she is a huge fan of underworld movies (we already have the A1 and 2 xbox 360's networked in our house). She flat out said no other game machines for the house; she doesn't want the kids to be on them all day. she would rather wait until the blu ray players come down or for HD DVD to win the war and buy 2 add ons for the 360.

I know my situation is a bit different, but many here are forgetting the WAF. 2 players for different formats? No way. A game console to play movies only? Yeah right. This is what I believe is going to be discussed in households the next few months. The average family is going to look at what they already have (and many have the 360) and forgo the expensive game machine for the wii (on price alone). If the 360 is already in the house then many families are going to go for the addon as a more economical choice ( and will be bundled with King Kong, a title that can only be found on HD DVD). I really think timing is everything for products to be succesful (remember those beanie babies?) What made the PS2 a hit was that it was out well before the xbox. here in the states, the delay of the PS3 really helped the 360 get a foothold in the marketplace. Plus, everybody here is talking about the console itself, but nobody has mentioned the number of games at launch, which will be more of a factor of purchases than the console alone. The PS3 has to show the average potential buyer something that it offers to gaming that the 360 doesn't. Right now, 5 weeks before launch, there is nothing. The kiosks that will be setup have to show the customer why the PS3 is better than the 360. I don't know of any kiosks that will have a big enough screen to show the increased resolution the PS3 is touting.

And further down the time line the household budget will most likely favor the HD DVD players by Apex and other brands found in the walmarts, Costco's and Sam's clubs that cost much less than their Japanese counterparts. Right now, as someone who has seen both sides of the coin in terms of HT sales and buying, many customers have already made their choice before walking in to a store. I have seen more times where someone asks the salesperson at BB if they have any of what they want in stock than some joe blow just walk in and ask "what should I get". I think that scenario worked before the internet revolution, but right now more and more people are well informed before they leave their house.

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post #274 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 08:02 PM
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Excellent post Paul. I agree. I have already mentioned the possibility of a PS3 or stand alone BD player to my wife, and it did NOT go over well at all. I just got the Xbox 360 a few months ago, and the Toshiba A1 within a few weeks of that. It is hard to keep her on a budget when she sees me buying these CE goodies like they grow on trees!
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post #275 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 08:19 PM
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I agree, excellent post Paul. Their are limits that are sometimes set for us(wives) and there a limits we set for ourselves, to high a price for what we get. I deal with both.
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post #276 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 08:23 PM
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Great thread. Fuel for six months of speculation. Thanks tsd
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post #277 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 08:54 PM
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this thread sucks

-Gary
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post #278 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

this thread sucks

-Gary

only if you're hell-bent on BD lasting.

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post #279 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 09:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

this thread sucks

-Gary

That's being rather, rather optomistic about what's become a wank-a-thon, eh?

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post #280 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 10:07 PM
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I am relatively new here, but I will chime in and agree with others, even with Christmas approaching the wife is basically banning me from BD. I am leaning towards waiting anyways - see about LG and Disney, but the wife will most likely win no matter what I decide. I mean my component cabinet is overloaded as is and I am working to figure out where to put a power center I desperately need as two units are already on top.
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post #281 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 10:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

Hi Darin - That is incorrect. I did not request anything of the sort, nor did I "tell you" anything of the sort.

Did you request that the thread on Lions Gate supporting HD DVD be deleted? You immediately started a new one after that one was removed and it sure looked like you had asked a mod to delete it (you even said in the new one that people should go to the mods if posts got off topic).
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You may wish to ask the mod why he deleted your posts but it was nothing to with me.

Interesting wording, since the mod deleted your posts claiming false things, like that the majority of releases are 8-12Mbps, along with my posts and other people's posts. If you don't know that your claim of 8-12Mbps was a falacy, then you are confused about that subject.
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Originally Posted by rdjam View Post

It may be a good idea for you to PM Amir or Ben to comment here if you don't feel that the conversation I posted above was clear enough.

I have already have discussed this with Ben in PM. You are still confused if you think that statement in the email that you or Edward wrote saying that using VC-1 meant that they would get a "free" HD DVD version, was true. Having the HD DVD style of output doesn't mean HD DVD compliant. They will only get an HD DVD version if they purposely set things up to give them an HD DVD version (that would then be compatible with Blu-ray with a file conversion).

I find it a little hard to believe that you can't figure out that Amir would have answered your last post where you asked if your interpretation was correct, if you had been correct. The reason he didn't answer is because I was correct and you should know he wouldn't want to answer if you were wrong and I was correct. He already said once that he was only answering your original question with respect to the file format, but you seem to want to take that "Currently Yes" and mislead people about what it meant. If you actually care about misinformation not being on here like you said, why don't you PM Ben and ask him if the statement about them getting a "free" HD DVD version just because they decide to use VC-1 for Blu-ray was correct.

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #282 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Because I'm debating what Surfer Dude is posting in the HD DVD forum, you are insinuating that I'm pro HD DVD?

I'm not sure where I insuated that. But the phrases from both sides have problems. "Beyond High Definition" doesn't have to mean it is beyond in every way, just like better between 2 things doesn't have to be better in every way. They could be referring to interactivity (like what is going on one Fox title coming up) that is more than just regular HD that people had been used to up to the time they decided on that phrase. Or some better things with video than the HD people tend to get from Comcast, or better sound than people usually get with HD. I suspect they came up with the phrase as kind of slam to HD DVD, but that would have worked a whole lot better if they had done a good job with their initial encodings.
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

It isn't. However it is much closer to your terminology of "perfection" than BD is.

A square is closer to a circle than a normal rectangle is, but it still isn't a circle. BD doesn't claim to be perfect from what I can see and HD DVD isn't really, "The Look and Sound of Perfect". But it is just a marketing phrase and I'm sure people know that. It doesn't have to be technically perfect for them to say that. There are phrases where I would expect them to match them in a technical way, but not either of these chosen marketing phrases.
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

How isn't it?

Are you asking how "The Look and Sound of Perfect" isn't accurate? Just wanted to make sure since it seems clear to me and above you said yourself that HD DVD isn't perfect.
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Exactly what coding format is encoded on a "blue laser" disc from Sony, Fox, Warner, Universal, Lions Gate, Paramount, MGM?

What does that have to do with whether it is perfect or not or beyond HD or not? None of these things are perfect, but if you are asking what codecs they are using I can tell you what I know for each, if you are asking things like GOPs or something else we could discuss it, but I'm not sure what you are asking for here and how it is relevant. If you are getting at the 1080p24, then that is what they are all using for film content as far as I know (although there might be some 1080i titles as I don't know if people really got to the bottom of whether some were really 1080i, or whether it was a different problem).

--Darin

This is the AV Science Forum. Please don't be gullible and please do remember the saying, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."
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post #283 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 11:34 PM
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Originally Posted by nyg View Post

Actually I haven't, I just decided to keep the off of that post. I agree with a lot of his comments but I do not believe Lions Gate will announce HD DVD support this week based on some guy I barely know. His is just more speculation. It'd be nice if his turned out true but that hasn't yet happened for anyone else now has it?

The point of the panel is to talk about the future plans of each company. It is a good place for LG to make their announcement. They are getting pressure to do so. However they may not if they're still unsure of possible release dates.

LG has made the decision to support HD-DVD, and this week is a good place to announce it. I still think it's a 50/50 shot. However there is no better place to make the announcement BEFORE CES. The HD-DVD people are pushing LG to officially join the crowd. It would be significant in the fact that it's the first Exclusive to leave the BD camp for Neutrality.

It's just as likely to not get announced as it is to get announced. They definately have plans to announce by CES or at CES at the latest. This week's even would be a good place for it to happen.
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post #284 of 321 Old 10-08-2006, 11:44 PM
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I wouldn't have expected them to announce it this early, but I really hope that they do.

It will give an extra push to the rest to announce before CES.

(crosses fingers, toes and eyes)
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post #285 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 12:48 AM
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If LG and Disnye decide to go over to HD, BD is so dead.
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post #286 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 01:59 AM
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Great news for HD DVD.......DM and his fan club are in full BS mode once again.
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post #287 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 04:53 AM
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For me, I will get a PS3 for gaming(if I can find one on launch) but when Warner or any other studio releases a movie I want on both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray I will most certainly pick up the HD-DVD version. Heres why:

Every HD-DVD player HAS to have Network Support, Storage Memory, HD Audio Decoders, ETC. The thing that Surfer Dude and other blue ray supporters seem to forget is that although Blu-ray might catch up to HD-DVD's PQ, they still lose out because nothing seems to be mandatory with blu-ray.

After watching Batman Begins, Fast and the Furious: TD, T3 on HD-DVD and experiencing the "In-Movie Experience" PiP commentaries I am so sold on HD-DVD it is not even funny.

When studios really start taking advantage of the network with menu updates and updatable trailers, there will be no doubt as to which format to buy your movie on even though the PQ is the same. With TrueHD, IME, HD-Audio Decoding and much more interactivity it's a no brainner.

As for PS3 being a cheap blu-ray player, I seriouly doubt the Panasonic and Pioneer will stay making Blu-ray players if everyone is buying PS3's instead. That tells me that the PS3 can't be that good of a player. The PS3 has a network, it has HDMI 1.3, it has more features then Pioneer and the Panasonic with the exception of maybe analog outs. If the PS3 has more features then the stand alone players then either the PQ is not up to par or the stand alone players are not worth $1,500. I happen to work in a field that requires me to attend trade shows and the couple I been to where a PS3 was showing off blu-ray movies I was not impressed.

I for one will be one of those 400.000 that will instantly have a blu-ray player in my home when I buy a PS3. Even with a PS3 my neutral purchases will all be HD-DVD and if Fox's blu-ray disc retail at $40 I will not be buying many of those at all.

When it comes down to it, I think that most people that have both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray players will buy there movies for HD-DVD if they are available on both formats leaving Fox and Sony as the only studios to profit off blu-ray. Once Warner and Paramount see that more people are buying for HD-DVD they will stop supporting blu-ray.

I came to the next generation format with an open mind. I purchased both the Samsung Blu-ray player and the HD-XA1. Samsung went back and my XA1 has been fulling it's promise of next gen DVD nicely.

As for Fox, I don't buy SD-DVD's anymore and my PS3 will be in my gaming room not my HT room so I won't be buying many if not any Blu-Ray movies. I am not boycotting Fox, they just happen to not have any movies on HD-DVD for me to buy.
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post #288 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 04:55 AM
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Well I'm no longer buying SD-DVDs and I only have an HD-DVD player, so I guess I'm boycotting Fox by default.
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post #289 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Surfer Dude View Post

Also, FOX chose Blu Ray Disc because of of the BD+ encryption. I don't see what's so bad about FOX wanting to protect their assets as well as they possibly can.

It's still stupid if they're so concerned with "protecting their assets" that it hurts their sales.

What matters for the bottom line is how many are sold, not how many are pirated. They're better off if they sell 200 million units and a billion of them are pirated, than if they sell 10 million and none are pirated.
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post #290 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 05:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Seng View Post

Just to add to this conversation, I hinted to my wife about the PS3 to play blu ray movies as she is a huge fan of underworld movies (we already have the A1 and 2 xbox 360's networked in our house). She flat out said no other game machines for the house; she doesn't want the kids to be on them all day.

It's not possible to ban the kids from using it?
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post #291 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 05:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

It's still stupid if they're so concerned with "protecting their assets" that it hurts their sales.
.

Well, their assets are protected alright. If nobody buys the disc, it's not going to be copied right? if nobody's buying BD, pirates won't pirate BD too, so their assets are protected too!

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post #292 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 05:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

It's still stupid if they're so concerned with "protecting their assets" that it hurts their sales.

What matters for the bottom line is how many are sold, not how many are pirated. They're better off if they sell 200 million units and a billion of them are pirated, than if they sell 10 million and none are pirated.

The idea is that it will take longer for the titles to be cracked thanks to a dynamic encryption method. Since DVD sales are strongest during the first month after release, if the movie isn't even cracked until after that period, it will hopefully translate into more people purchasing it on day one, or soon after, rather than waiting a month for it to be cracked and available on the web.
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post #293 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 07:09 AM
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I'm not Buying their DVD's, I will however rent them, X3 I would'nt buy on SD Dvd even more because I know their will be a better version available 6 months from now.
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post #294 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 08:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdmi4ever View Post

It's not possible to ban the kids from using it?

Sure it is, if you're willing to either:
A. unplug it from your equipment and hide it
B. watch them like a hawk 24/7
C. trust them when you and your wife are working.
D. you ban it by not buying it.

It may be easy when they are under 10 but not when you have 2 teens.

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post #295 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 08:39 AM
 
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Why don't the Blu-ray supporters create a thread where the two or three of them can extoll the virtues of their $1000 investment to a receptive audience?
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post #296 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Surfer Dude View Post

The idea is that it will take longer for the titles to be cracked thanks to a dynamic encryption method. Since DVD sales are strongest during the first month after release, if the movie isn't even cracked until after that period, it will hopefully translate into more people purchasing it on day one, or soon after, rather than waiting a month for it to be cracked and available on the web.

More difficult to crack, so fewer people pirate it, but fewer people buy it because they don't have a compatible player. They're focusing on minimizing the piracy more than maximizing sales.
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post #297 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul_Seng View Post

Sure it is, if you're willing to either:
A. unplug it from your equipment and hide it
B. watch them like a hawk 24/7
C. trust them when you and your wife are working.
D. you ban it by not buying it.

It may be easy when they are under 10 but not when you have 2 teens.

Should be easy enough if you lock up or trash the controllers and it has a parental lock feature that can block all playing, or something that says when it was last used ... but those last two are big IFs.
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post #298 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvine2000 View Post

a excuse me gary, fox still hasnt produced a anamorphic dvd of the abyss and its in 2.0 surround ,whats up with that!!!

Get the 2 Disc Special edition (not the white cover). The 5.1 is excellent. THX certified.
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post #299 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Surfer Dude View Post

DevoX, You specifically just said in response to,

Because Blu Ray is an optical format that doesn't have a picture quality.

that it was

So please, I'd really appreciate you educating me.


Media formats thesmelves can not have picture qualities, the data, the movie contained on the format can.

Is this statement true or false?

Actually, media formats do indeed set the bar for their own maximum possible picture quality. For example, you're not going to get better than 480p out of a standard DVD player. Now, within those confines it is up to the software to take as much advantage of the capabilities as it can.

So... As evidenced by the best-looking titles available on both formats (which is a subjective test, but at least WB titles are among the best), both Blu-ray and HD DVD are capable of identical picture quality.

You are right that it is the software that will differentiate between these two formats now, and so far HD DVD as been more consistently superior.

Some people here probably think I'm a Blu-ray fanboy, but I am in fact format-neutral. If Zealots from either side of this format war start making outrageous claims or spreading mis-information, I feel obliged to point it out.
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post #300 of 321 Old 10-09-2006, 10:52 AM
 
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Originally Posted by txfilmguy View Post

Get the 2 Disc Special edition (not the white cover). The 5.1 is excellent. THX certified.

No thanks, it is still non-anamorphic and it's not HD DVD.
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