Chronicles of Riddick: DVD vs HD-DVD picture comparison - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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For reference I'm using a RCA HD5000 1080i HDMI output to a iScan VP50 with 3:2 pulldown and de-interlacing outputting (no filtering) 1080p 2:2 48Hz to a optimized/calibrated 1080p LCoS HD10K projector (which has no internal filters (like sharpness) or scaler) on a 10' wide Da-Lite HP screen setting at 1.5 distance (15'). All images are shown at full 1080p with 0% overscan and 1 to 1 pixel mapping.

Camera is an Olympus E-300 8Mpixel SLR w/25mm 2/3 lens (about 50mm for a 35mm type lens) 16' from screen. White balanced using test pattern from the iScan VP50. Images captured to 16 bit RAW format and converted to 8 bit JPEG using Photo Shop and are 100% unaltered (except for the cropped images that are cropped only).

The first picture is HD complete frame, the 2ed is HD crop, and the 3ed is the SD crop.

First set:


http://photos.imageevent.com/william.../CoR%20003.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/william...oR%20HD003.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/william...oR%20SD003.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/william.../CoR%20002.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/william...oR%20HD002.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/william...oR%20SD002.jpg
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post #2 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Set 2

http://photos.imageevent.com/william.../CoR%20006.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/william...oR%20HD006.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/william...oR%20SD006.jpg


http://photos.imageevent.com/william.../CoR%20007.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/william...oR%20HD007.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/william...oR%20SD007.jpg
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post #3 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 07:29 AM
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Viewing this DVD, I thought the DVD version was about as good as it gets with SD. The HD version is better, visually. I also watched the upscaled DVD using the XA1 and compared it to the HD version. Tough comparison, although the HD version still looked cleaner and sharper.

Nice pics BTW

My Home Theater Site:


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post #6 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 07:41 AM
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Man, your scaler is excellent and/or the SD-DVD release is fantastic... I know that people here are touting CoR as a reference title, but the SD-DVD looks great in those comparos!!

-Josh Murrah
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post #7 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 07:53 AM
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From the other threads it seems there is the least difference in these shots to my eyes. I agree with SM.
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post #8 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 07:55 AM
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Damn. Any idea what's with the bad aliasing/jaggies in some of the HD shots, such as in the rims of the glasses in the first picture set?

Edit: OK, From the T3 thread, I'm assuming it's the player only sending out 540 lines when Paused? Still, the SD comes really close in some scenes. Must be some sweet upconversion.
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post #9 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 08:10 AM
 
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I think you flopped those last 2 shots. The bottom one definitely has more detail.
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post #10 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic
I think you flopped those last 2 shots. The bottom one definitely has more detail.
The bottom is definitely the DVD grab. What you may believe to be detail is compression artifacts. Examining the entire frame, the crop is taken from the upper-left portion which happens to be outside the depth of field. The area is supposed to be soft/out-of-focus.
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post #11 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic
I think you flopped those last 2 shots. The bottom one definitely has more detail.
No. The jaggies in SD have smoothened out. Look at the pillar or the beard. You will see more detail in the upper one ...
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post #12 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by George Montemayor
The bottom is definitely the DVD grab. What you may believe to be detail is compression artifacts. Examining the entire frame, the crop is taken from the upper-left portion which happens to be outside the depth of field. The area is supposed to be soft/out-of-focus.
Correct. This is to show how un-natural DVD's low resolution can look. ;)
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post #13 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 09:49 AM
 
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Great movie, love Batmans dad character as well (the other Furian). Wish he had a bigger part.

Titles like this and Pitch Blak making waiting for my HD-DVD hard.
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post #14 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 09:50 AM
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Actually there is quite a noticeable difference. I'm impressed.
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post #15 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 09:56 AM
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Unfortunately, pausing the A1 to take the shot is introducing artifacts into the HD-DVD images. This is NOT present when actually viewing the title.


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post #16 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 10:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpippel
Unfortunately, pausing the A1 to take the shot is introducing artifacts into the HD-DVD images. This is NOT present when actually viewing the title.
It is not artifacts but you are limited to only 1 field because of the interlaced nature of the player (and who says 1080i is the same as 1080p ;) ). I wish it had a true progressive 24fps output.
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post #17 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 10:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William
It is not artifacts but you are limited to only 1 field because of the interlaced nature of the player (and who says 1080i is the same as 1080p ;) ). I wish it had a true progressive 24fps output.
1080i IS the same as 1080p on a 1080p capable screen. The only difference is wether the lines are interlaced in the TV or the player.
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post #18 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 10:23 AM
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Man, I hate Necromongers!

William, I'm really enjoying your HD/SD comparison threads and I appreciate the effort that goes into them. Thanks.

Jeff


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post #19 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 10:26 AM
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I second Ktulu_1's sentiment...thanks for the HD/SD comps!
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post #20 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William
It is not artifacts but you are limited to only 1 field because of the interlaced nature of the player (and who says 1080i is the same as 1080p ;) ). I wish it had a true progressive 24fps output.
Well it is field-based pause but there is nothing in 1080i that forces them to use field-based pause. That is just Toshiba's implementation. If the Toshiba simply sent field 1 from frame 1 and field 2 from frame 1, then this "pause" artifact wouldn't exist because this is a progressive source. I'm only commenting on "pause" which is a static picture. I'm not commenting on 1080i vs 1080p playback.
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post #21 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 10:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fettastic
1080i IS the same as 1080p on a 1080p capable screen. The only difference is wether the lines are interlaced in the TV or the player.
Not when you hit the pause button. :eek: Plus despite popular (wrong) belief de-interlacing is never 100% accurate, even on the most expensive de-interlace's much less the cheep ones built into TV's. ;) Also the lines don't need to be de-interlaced by the player if the output is 24fps (or 48Hz) and not 60Hz. Just read off the disc and sent to the output "as is".
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post #22 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sfhub
Well it is field-based pause but there is nothing in 1080i that forces them to use field-based pause. That is just Toshiba's implementation. If the Toshiba simply sent field 1 from frame 1 and field 2 from frame 1, then this "pause" artifact wouldn't exist because this is a progressive source. I'm only commenting on "pause" which is a static picture. I'm not commenting on 1080i vs 1080p playback.
True, but it doesn't send out a progressive pause.
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post #23 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 10:40 AM
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Great post :). I really appreciate these HD vs. SD comparisons as I haven't bought into HD yet.
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post #24 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 11:35 AM
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resolution aside, the color differences are astounding as well.

nice pics william; could you also include the large shot of the sd version as well, i think a lot gets lost in the close ups...then again, all the conversion that has to take place just to post it here makes the comparisons more difficult.

oh, i think your tripod/hand was a bit shaky in some ;)
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post #25 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 12:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William
It is not artifacts but you are limited to only 1 field because of the interlaced nature of the player (and who says 1080i is the same as 1080p ;) ). I wish it had a true progressive 24fps output.
As another poster already mentioned, the jaggies you're seeing are an artifact introduced by the player only displaying one field from the interlaced frame when you hit Pause. If the HD-A1 had a frame-based pause function then you wouldn't be seeing this on your 1080p display. I call it an artifact because it is not present unless you pause the video. Due to this, and despite all of your hard work on these screenshots, they are really not an accurate representation of what's on the disc or what people are actually seeing when they watch the HD-DVD.


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post #26 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 12:08 PM
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Either these pictures need to be retaken while in motion, or switch it to 720p with 2.0 firmware and pause and hope for a progressive still. Sorry to say, but these are flawed stills that don't really show the full picture quality, but it does show color and compression comparisons well.
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post #27 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimothyB
Either these pictures need to be retaken while in motion, or switch it to 720p with 2.0 firmware and pause and hope for a progressive still. Sorry to say, but these are flawed stills that don't really show the full picture quality, but it does show color and compression comparisons well.
Sorry man, its great, loved the movie and rewatched it several times, but based on PQ alone, if you consider what showed up in Serenity's CG space battle scene, I have not seen anything comparable in clarity to that few minutes of eye candy. There is absolutely ZERO chroma noise in that segment, something that cannot be said with any film based transfer.

In fact, BB and PotO have cleaner transfers than Riddick.

Disclaimer : My display is a 50" optoma plasma that takes 1080P but is capable of only 1366x768 native pixels.
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post #28 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 12:17 PM
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Agreed that these are flawed stills -- you are only seeing HALF the resolution!! 1920x540 with doubled horizontal lines.

Use the "freeze frame" function on your television instead. Far more difficult to find the exact frame with this technique but at least it is representative of what you are seeing on an HDTV. Either that or take a pic of the picture in motion and hope for a shot that isnt blurry.
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post #29 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 12:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by briankmonkey
Great movie, love Batmans dad character as well (the other Furian). Wish he had a bigger part.

Titles like this and Pitch Blak making waiting for my HD-DVD hard.
you might remember him as Needermier in animal house
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post #30 of 39 Old 10-11-2006, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ManiG
Agreed that these are flawed stills -- you are only seeing HALF the resolution!! 1920x540 with doubled horizontal lines.

Use the "freeze frame" function on your television instead. Far more difficult to find the exact frame with this technique but at least it is representative of what you are seeing on an HDTV. Either that or take a pic of the picture in motion and hope for a shot that isnt blurry.
When I have a chance maybe I'll do some stills of my own. Back when the players came out I did so with Serenity. I had to use the timer on my camera and count the seconds to figure out when to start the film with the timer to get the exact still I was looking for while in motion. I'd show them now, but sadly I found out my progressive player I used for dvd stills turns out to suck, so I won't show them again. Maybe I'll use Tokyo Drift since it's a combo disc and this time use the HD-A1's upconversion.

I have a few hours before work right not, but best to wait to night. And my Best Buy shows Corpse Bride in stock, so I think I should take the chance and grab that right now and do comparison stills later :)
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