HD DVD needs to STOP the COMBO!!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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A quick rant regarding the ill advised combo format HD-DVD camp wants to push on us.

The local stores near me charge $10 more for a disc in this format than a disc that is strictly HD-DVD. When you take into account release week pricing for a normal DVD (about $15) the cost of a $35 HD combo disc is simply stupid.

I have been purchasing at least 1 DVD a week since they started back in 1997.
I purchased the Toshiba HD-DVD player the week it was released.

I only have 10 HD-DVD titles today because I refuse to pay for a feature forced upon me for no good reason whatsoever. How many people with DVD players are throwing out $35 a disc because they "might" buy an HD player in the future? How many HD owners care if the disc plays on an old player? If they do... why wouldn't they want to pay $25 for an HD version and $15 for a standard version to have 2 complete copies?

The PS3 is in the house now so I can play BluRay as well. It's not my first choice for movie viewing because the bluetooth remote scheme won't talk to my universal remote. However, if I am faced with HD-DVD Combo disc or the same movie on BluRay, I am saving the 30% per disc!

I LOVE the HD-DVD format but the combo discs are becoming a deal breaker for me.
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post #2 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 12:29 PM
 
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I agree with you on the combo's. It's a bad idea and only costs the consumer more money for something they don't care anything about. Plus, as silly as it sounds, I prefer to have a label on the unused side of the disc.

One note on the Blu-Ray vs. Combo HD DVD disc though is that they are not always equal. For example, The Ant Bully got a TrueHD soundtrack for HD DVD, but the Blu-Ray version only gets a standard soundtrack. Just something to think about before blind buying Blu-Ray over the combo discs. Sometimes there are minor differences.
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post #3 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 12:36 PM
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the only way combos are going to work is abandon the DVD version and price it as such. Then your gauranteed to get HD-DVD into peoples homes in the millions
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post #4 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 12:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkout View Post

One note on the Blu-Ray vs. Combo HD DVD disc though is that they are not always equal. For example, The Ant Bully got a TrueHD soundtrack for HD DVD, but the Blu-Ray version only gets a standard soundtrack. Just something to think about before blind buying Blu-Ray over the combo discs. Sometimes there are minor differences.

This is an excellent point. Personally, it would take a pretty compelling title for me to justify the extra money for the soundtrack difference. The Ant Bully example would not get extra dollars out of me, an action movie with lots of surround sound might. (Maybe the Ant Bully is an action movie, I haven't seen it yet)

When everything moves to the HDMI 1.3 arena later this year, soundtracks will become more important to me also. I'm using a Denon HDMI enabled receiver currently, but have yet to be stunned by a TrueHD audio track like I have with the difference in picture quality.
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post #5 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 12:45 PM
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I'm avoiding the combos due to price. Eventually, the studios will figure it out, if everyone buys fewer combo disks. I buy catalog titles like Casablanca or Harry Potter GOF. Potter was worth the import price, because it's a great movie.

Most combo disks are day and date. Since many current titles are crap, I refuse to pay premium prices. For current titles, I buy used SD DVds.

Bill
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post #6 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 12:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by HDfruitcake View Post

the only way combos are going to work is abandon the DVD version and price it as such. Then your gauranteed to get HD-DVD into peoples homes in the millions

Another way to look at this is...
Joe consumer at the local BB sees both HD-DVD and Bluray sitting on shelves next to each other. All Bluray titles are $25 or less. Every 3rd or 4th HD-DVD is a combo disc that costs $35.

hmmmmm.
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post #7 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcGoo View Post

I'm avoiding the combos due to price. Eventually, the studios will figure it out, if everyone buys fewer combo disks.

Seems like they don't really have the luxury of time during the middle of a format war. I hope they figure it out sooner rather than later. One of the reasons I bothered with a rant on a high traffic board
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post #8 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 12:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennutt View Post

This is an excellent point. Personally, it would take a pretty compelling title for me to justify the extra money for the soundtrack difference. The Ant Bully example would not get extra dollars out of me, an action movie with lots of surround sound might. (Maybe the Ant Bully is an action movie, I haven't seen it yet)

When everything moves to the HDMI 1.3 arena later this year, soundtracks will become more important to me also. I'm using a Denon HDMI enabled receiver currently, but have yet to be stunned by a TrueHD audio track like I have with the difference in picture quality.


Superman Returns is another example of where the HD DVD got a TrueHD soundtrack and the Blu-Ray version got a standard soundtrack. That's also a combo disc and an action movie.
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post #9 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 12:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkout View Post

Superman Returns is another example of where the HD DVD got a TrueHD soundtrack and the Blu-Ray version got a standard soundtrack. That's also a combo disc and an action movie.

A great example of something I would have to think about before purchasing.

If not for the combo, I would have Superman Returns HD-DVD on my shelf right now, studios would have my $25. I didn't run right out and get this one on Bluray either, but they have turned my usual weekly no-brainer purchase into "no sale" for now.
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post #10 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 01:07 PM
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I'm not inclined to buy a Combo if it costs extra . Have a lot of sd's already ......

Bob
In it for hd !!

keep at it , results are worth it !!
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post #11 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 01:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennutt View Post

A great example of something I would have to think about before purchasing.

If not for the combo, I would have Superman Returns HD-DVD on my shelf right now, studios would have my $25. I didn't run right out and get this one on Bluray either, but they have turned my usual weekly no-brainer purchase into "no sale" for now.


Like I said before though, I still don't agree with combo discs regardless of price. If people wanted the standard DVD version they probably would have bought it first because the ONLY reason I can see that anyone would want the SD version of of a combo disc is so that they could let their friends watch the movie on their SD DVD players. The whole combo idea is just silly and as mentioned before, with the tremendous mark-up on combo discs, it's going to affect HD DVD sales when the average consumer walks by and see the same movie for $10 cheaper on Blu-Ray or $15 cheaper on SD DVD.
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post #12 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 01:19 PM
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Its more that your fourced to buy them, the choise not to isn't their.

If they were only a few bucks more at most I'd not mind, they did this with the grinch and animal house. So I bought both at the store however firewall was 35.99 at BB. So I used amazon and payed $27+10% off.

The other thing that bugs me is all the extras are on th SD side which in most cases I've been skiping becase the over all effort to get them can take sevral minnites to do. I've seen some combo discs are only 15GB as well they should all be 30gb to maximize the PQ/AQ


But, ill buy the top movies as needed, may have to go amazon if BBY wants to much...
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post #13 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 01:22 PM
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Have you ever heard of Amazon or price-matching ? I have never ever paid more than $27 for any HD-DVD, combo or not.

If I go to Best Buy, I bring a printout of either Target.com or Wallmart.com, whichever has the lowest price. I have yet to find any Best Buy refusing to price match.

Even better, but it requires a bit more work, buy it at BB at full price first, then go to customer service with your printout from Target or Wallmart, and they will reimburse you 110% of the difference, which will actually beat any competitor's price. Not only that, but if you're a reward zone member, you'll accumulate some points that will save you a few more cents too...

And I totally think the HD-DVD camp is missing the boat on winning this war. All they need to do is release new titles in combo only, at a competitive price (let's say $21.99 MSRP). That would insure a high penetration in millions of homes that will eventually feel the need to upgrade their DVD player once they get a HDTV and/or HD-DVD players prices go low enough. If J6P already has 20 or 30 titles in his collection that have a HD-DVD side or layer, which player do you think he will buy ?

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post #14 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 01:25 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

Have you ever heard of Amazon or price-matching ? I have never ever paid more than $27 for any HD-DVD, combo or not.

If I go to Best Buy, I bring a printout of either Target.com or Wallmart.com, whichever has the lowest price. I have yet to find any Best Buy refusing to price match.

Even better, but it requires a bit more work, buy it at BB at full price first, then go to customer service with your printout from Target or Wallmart, and they will reimburse you 110% of the difference, which will actually beat any competitor's price. Not only that, but if you're a reward zone member, you'll accumulate some points that will save you a few more cents too...

And I totally think the HD-DVD camp is missing the boat on winning this war. All they need to do is release new titles in combo only, at a competitive price (let's say $21.99 MSRP). That would insure a high penetration in millions of homes that will eventually feel the need to upgrade their DVD player once they get a HDTV and/or HD-DVD players prices go low enough. If J6P already has 20 or 30 titles in his collection that have a HD-DVD side or layer, which player do you think he will buy ?

Shouldn't have to pay more than $19.99 for any HD DVD regardless of combo-disc or not, unless it includes a second disc or more.
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post #15 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 01:33 PM
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Are you guys legally mandated to shop at Best Buy? Why would anyone pay $30 or more for a combo when Amazon has the same title for $27.95 on avg.

We can complain all we want about that price but Fox Blu-ray are the same price and you DON'T get legacy support.

These threads are all the same. We've had dozens of them. It's clear that the number one issue for combos is price. I think we'll see the last of Combo discs this year but for right now it makes little sense to continue to beat this dead horse.
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post #16 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennutt View Post

Another way to look at this is...
Joe consumer at the local BB sees both HD-DVD and Bluray sitting on shelves next to each other. All Bluray titles are $25 or less. Every 3rd or 4th HD-DVD is a combo disc that costs $35.

hmmmmm.

Then they go to buy one of the players and it turns out its something twice as much. Second do not buy them at B&M places because all they do is charge MSRP for Combos.
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post #17 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eurotrance View Post

Have you ever heard of Amazon or price-matching ? I have never ever paid more than $27 for any HD-DVD, combo or not.

I will admit that I am too lazy to do this. My point is more that I shouldn't have to.
My fellow americans are for the most part as lazy as I am, and HD-DVD wants to win a war with the combo potato gun as one it's weapons.
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post #18 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 01:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Are you guys legally mandated to shop at Best Buy? Why would anyone pay $30 or more for a combo when Amazon has the same title for $27.95 on avg.

We can complain all we want about that price but Fox Blu-ray are the same price and you DON'T get legacy support.

These threads are all the same. We've had dozens of them. It's clear that the number one issue for combos is price. I think we'll see the last of Combo discs this year but for right now it makes little sense to continue to beat this dead horse.

Last of combos or lack of complaining. Because if you ask me I think they be releasing more in combos. Universal might even get to the point that everything is a combo.
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post #19 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 01:37 PM
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I agree with you regarding the $19.99 price point, as it is definitely the "magic" number that most people will consider buying a title or not.

However, as everybody knows, studios want to make money now and not tomorrow, they have no long-term foresight at all, which is why they are always late at changing their business model.

In this case, their greed might make them lose the pre-recorded HD war altogether, and that goes for HD-DVD as well as Blu-Ray. The mass market is satisfied with SD-DVD and sees no need to spend more money for an incremental improvement, just like they never saw any need to upgrade from CD to SACD or DVD-Audio.

Quite frankly, if the transfer is not top-notch (HD-DVD or BD, doesn't matter), the difference in PQ is not night-and-day to most people. 2007 will definitely tell us the outcome of this, but I wouldn't be surprised if both formats end up like SACD and DVD-Audio.

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post #20 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blkout View Post

Shouldn't have to pay more than $19.99 for any HD DVD regardless of combo-disc or not, unless it includes a second disc or more.

I hate combos, too, but I hated it a tad less when I bought Superman Returns at Circuit City for $19.99. If only retailers could price them all like that....
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post #21 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 02:16 PM
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Forget the price point. I'm in my late 40's (ok, early fifties) and I can't read the freaking small print on the inner ring of the combos. It's hard enough to figure which title I have in my hand (I've often left several combos out at the same time, my bad) and even harder to determine which is the HD track side or the SD side. A pox on combos!

A nice big clear label one one side is cool.

Hmmm... Maybe there is a market for labels that you can put on the SD side.
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post #22 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 02:18 PM
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I believe the combo or flipper format will go away when HD DVD releases the first 'Hybrid" or three layer single sided disc's with both the HD DVD and DVD title versions on the same side of the disc's (thus we will have the nice artwork we all love on the other side). There may be some news on hybrids coming from CES. The hybrids should costs less thus a price reduction and imo is a much better choice than combo disc's.
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post #23 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 03:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert D View Post

I believe the combo or flipper format will go away when HD DVD releases the first 'Hybrid" or three layer single sided disc's with both the HD DVD and DVD title versions on the same side of the disc's (thus we will have the nice artwork we all love on the other side). There may be some news on hybrids coming from CES. The hybrids should costs less thus a price reduction and imo is a much better choice than combo disc's.

This post reminded me of DVD's beginnings.
1) Flipper DVD's required you to get up during a movie intermission and turn over to the other side to continue presentation.
2) Bottom slide feed jewel boxes that made you scrape the dvd out of the center of it.
3) The crap cardboard covers they used instead of the crap bottom feed jewelcase.
4) DIVX

Those all went away. Maybe the HD-DVD combo will follow suit.
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post #24 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 03:51 PM
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Its not so much the price for me.

The fact that the extras are often on the SD side makes me mad. I shouldn't have to go to all that extra time and energy just to watch the blooper real or deleted scences...
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post #25 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennutt View Post

When everything moves to the HDMI 1.3 arena later this year, soundtracks will become more important to me also. I'm using a Denon HDMI enabled receiver currently, but have yet to be stunned by a TrueHD audio track like I have with the difference in picture quality.


Why is this? Why do you think that processor decoding of a codec to PCM is going to be superior to doing it in the player?

Even with 1.3, every HD DVD disc to date will have to be decoded in the player... Most people in the industry feel that 1.2-1.5 mbps lossy DD or DTS codecs are very close to their lossless counterparts, but it also depends or the rest of your set up, speakers and room sound.

HDMI 1.3... don't believe the hype...
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post #26 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 03:59 PM
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I love the combo format one recent example we watched Fearless in the HT and took it on our road trip because it had standard def version also. Another example is rated G-PG13 we watch it once in the HT and wife or son can watch again, and again wherever they choose.

The cheese fell off my cracker a long time ago...
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post #27 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 04:06 PM
 
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Originally Posted by hmurchison View Post

Are you guys legally mandated to shop at Best Buy? Why would anyone pay $30 or more for a combo when Amazon has the same title for $27.95 on avg.

We can complain all we want about that price but Fox Blu-ray are the same price and you DON'T get legacy support.

These threads are all the same. We've had dozens of them. It's clear that the number one issue for combos is price. I think we'll see the last of Combo discs this year but for right now it makes little sense to continue to beat this dead horse.


Considering many people prefer to buy from B&M stores with the exception of us tech-heads here, Best Buy is one of the only B&M stores carrying next gen format software. So ease up on those that buy at Best Buy. I do MOST of my shopping at Buy, Amazon, or Deep Discount, but I occasionally have an impulse buy at Best Buy too. I got the money so it doesn't bother me.
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post #28 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 04:08 PM
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There are like 10 threads on this topic already...you could just read all the same opinions on those without starting a new thread causing everyone to REPEAT their posts again. I personally like combos.

FYI, BB is not the only B&M store selling HD DVDs. They do have the best selection, but also the highest prices.

There are also:

CC
Target
Meijer
Walmart

and coming soon:

Borders

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post #29 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 04:10 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrandonJF View Post

I hate combos, too, but I hated it a tad less when I bought Superman Returns at Circuit City for $19.99. If only retailers could price them all like that....


Exactly my point, if they aren't going to release a combo disc and a standard HD DVD disc, then they need to keep the price at $19.99. Otherwise, make the it a single sided HD DVD for $19.99 and a combo disc for $24.99 and give the consumer the choice of both discs.
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post #30 of 71 Old 01-01-2007, 04:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jameskollar View Post

Forget the price point. I'm in my late 40's (ok, early fifties) and I can't read the freaking small print on the inner ring of the combos. It's hard enough to figure which title I have in my hand (I've often left several combos out at the same time, my bad) and even harder to determine which is the HD track side or the SD side. A pox on combos!

A nice big clear label one one side is cool.

Hmmm... Maybe there is a market for labels that you can put on the SD side.


Good to see I'm not the only one who prefers a nice label on one side of the disc. I mentioned this in my first post in this thread. I hated flipper discs for SD DVD for this same reason.
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