NY Times: Warner to release BR/HD-DVD Hybrid Discs! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 54 Old 01-03-2007, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/04/te...ref=technology. Let the speculation about who this hurts the most begin!
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post #2 of 54 Old 01-03-2007, 10:21 PM
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From the article:

HD-DVD offers the same vivid picture by storing less information on its disc, which means fewer minutes of video and other features. However, among its perceived advantages, HD-DVD players are less expensive and also play standard DVDs, while Blu-ray players do not.


Oops....

Wrong and wrong. Just wrong...my lord NY Times...come on do your homework...
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post #3 of 54 Old 01-03-2007, 10:21 PM
 
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It changes absolutely nothing. It just makes it a lot cheaper for the studios which are already format neutral to release content. However, Toshiba is gonna be making some big announcements about lower cost players. This is gonna make HD DVD much more attractive to the masses. If they are successful in saturating the market with affordable HD DVD players, Sony will soon be all alone and will have no choice but to join the pack. The shareholders aren't gonna sit by and watch another large amount of dough disappear. By all accounts they are hemorrhaging already.
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post #4 of 54 Old 01-03-2007, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dad1153 View Post

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/04/te...ref=technology. Let the speculation about who this hurts the most begin!

BD as I am pretty sure when I heard about this there was a limitation to only one BD layer and max of two HD-DVD layers. But I also read when Warner was looking into this that it was 2008 at the earliest.

But I have a hard time beilieving something like this will ever hit the market while it matters. Its going to be years down the road when a winner has been decided and they want to make sure they aren't leaving the dead guy totally screwed.
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post #5 of 54 Old 01-03-2007, 10:22 PM
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A CNet link, if you don't want to register for the NY Times.
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post #6 of 54 Old 01-03-2007, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSCH View Post

It changes absolutely nothing. It just makes it a lot cheaper for the studios which are already format neutral to release content. However, Toshiba is gonna be making some big announcements about lower cost players. This is gonna make HD DVD much more attractive to the masses. If they are successful in saturating the market with affordable HD DVD players, Sony will soon be all alone and will have no choice but to join the pack. The shareholders aren't gonna sit by and watch another large amount of dough disappear by all accounts they are hemorrhaging already.

There you go...glad you updated your post. What this does is put pressure on studios such as Fox and Universal to become neutral. If they do not, consumers will see these studios as spoiled children unwilling to play fair.
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post #7 of 54 Old 01-03-2007, 10:43 PM
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oh my, combo discs -and- combo players...it'll make a/b'ing easier I guess...

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post #8 of 54 Old 01-03-2007, 11:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Between Warner's Total HD and LG's Dual-Player announcements the pre-CES buzz is loud and clear: a vote of no confidence on both HD-DVD (i.e. Toshiba) and Blu-ray (i.e. Sony) as well as a desire for one HD optical format to end the war. It will be interesting to see the spin both camps put on what essentially amounts to an industry-wide repudiation of their greed fueling this needless format war.

And nice of Warner to prove that movie studios are just as greedy about proprietary format royalties as the CE companies behind the two current HD formats. Because, if the Total HD discs catch on (unlikely but now a real probability), Warner stands to take a cut from the royalties of selling the new disc.
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post #9 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 12:15 AM
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Oh, goodie...

~Waves a flag~ Yay to higher prices...

I heart dinosaurs
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post #10 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 12:57 AM
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Just when we though combos couldn't get any worse. A HD-DVD/DVD combo is about $30 so, what will a BD/HD-DVD cost? $45? No thank you. This means nothing unless the neutral studios use it. Plus, what color case will they use? 2 version, one in a blue case the other in a red one; or just one that is purple? Which side will face up in the case from the factory, potentially getting more finger prints on it or scratches from inserts?

PSN ID: RollTide1017
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post #11 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 01:03 AM
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mmmmmmm purple cases sound sweet

I think they need to focus on quality first

the current combo disks don't seem to have the quality of the HD DVD only disks construction wise
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post #12 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 01:21 AM
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I hate this idea. I'm a hardcore HD DVD fan but I'd rather see BD win completely then to have more hybrid discs introduced in a new style with higher prices. I'm a tech geek and will put up with a lot of early adopter quirks and acts of studio greed/stupidity but even I have my limits. This is it.

If these new hybrid discs sit on the shelves as a FOURTH movie disc format to confuse consumers - f*** it, I'm done. I can only take so much inconvenience and forced changing of my plans. The day that happens is the day I stop buying movies period and rather just rent SD DVDs every now and then while waiting a year or two for studios to get their heads out of their ass and figure out what consumers want.

I'm praying that this is actually just a half-baked attempt to cut costs by a studio who knows they have to/will remain neutral and nothing more. If it does really pan out to be some kind of "new" format, one that perhaps/likely sacrifices quality, extras, and more to fit all this junk on it - then you will seem me taking up reading a lot more that I have been.
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post #13 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 01:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post

If these new hybrid discs sit on the shelves as a FOURTH movie disc format to confuse consumers.

You buy one disc and it plays on whatever player you have. How is it more confusing?
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post #14 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 01:41 AM
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Originally Posted by GMan4911 View Post

You buy one disc and it plays on whatever player you have. How is it more confusing?

How can you even ask that? To say nothing of SD - BD and HD DVD are already confusing enough. I mean, which is a combo? Which is not? Does one version have TrueHD and the other not? Which title uses what codec and how does it effect PQ? Are there extras or not? Is the format capable of advanced authoring or what? Why are certain titles available in one store and not the other? How come neutral studios release the same titles on different formats on different release dates? Which titles have glitches with which players? Will it have region coding or won't it? ETC, ETC, ETC

Now if we are introduced to yet ANOTHER format where we have to do even more monitoring of it too and ask all the same questions and more of it - my head is gonna explode.

This is supposed to be easy. I give them a very fair and or even lavish amount of cash - they give me a movie on one simple disc that can be seen as the definitive version that exists for a while. No four different choices and hundreds of considerations to take into account.

The sad thing is this: HD DVD on it's own is/was there already! Great PQ, advanced authoring, plenty of extras, low production costs, plenty of space - NO PROBLEMS. HD DVD is the answer NOW. It's the answer for the foreseeable future. There's no reason to create a new format that allows BD to continue it's fumbling around.

I'm sick of these games and new format/hybrid speculation and introductions. It's not helpful to me. I don't need a new solution for a problem that doesn't exist. I don't need an additional answer for a decision I've already worked so hard to solve and support on my own. It's all ********, if you ask me. I was finally happy and secure in my position to support HD DVD only and now this. I'm gonna start to just want them to leave me alone...
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post #15 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 04:04 AM
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What I don't understand is this: with BD50's now being released in reasonable numbers, how is a disc that limits content to a single BD layer going to get BD studios on board with this?

It might be okay for titles that don't need more than 25GB, but that's it.
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post #16 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronSCH View Post

Sony will soon be all alone and will have no choice but to join the pack. The shareholders aren't gonna sit by and watch another large amount of dough disappear. By all accounts they are hemorrhaging already.

As somebody who owns a large HD-DVD collection I'm not that blind to see the Blue side is becoming more appealing of late. In time the selection of titles on offer will be too much for me and I'm sure others to resist.

Sure, we can all wait two years and see what happens. Life is too short to waste a few years watching the web to say, "I told you so"
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post #17 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 04:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amiable-Akuma View Post


I'm sick of these games and new format/hybrid speculation and introductions. It's not helpful to me. I don't need a new solution for a problem that doesn't exist. I don't need an additional answer for a decision I've already worked so hard to solve and support on my own. It's all ********, if you ask me. I was finally happy and secure in my position to support HD DVD only and now this. I'm gonna start to just want them to leave me alone...

Isn't this whole thing about enjoying movies? Or is it about supporting a side? I'm confused
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post #18 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 04:50 AM
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While this definitely sounds like a smart plan, WB should probably go the way the way we want Universal to go with the combo discs. One issue of the HD/DVD disc and one issue of the HD only disc. Of course that would result in WB releasing 3 copies of the same film so I don't imagine this happening.

The huge negative is that the discs probably will retail even higher than the combo discs right now. If, somehow, they can keep the discs around the $30 mark, this will take off. If they think the consumer will buy discs that are $40+ HA!
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post #19 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 05:39 AM
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Combo player is fine with me. Combo discs, too, provided the price is not obscene.

Play nice. It's just an online forum :)
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post #20 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 05:41 AM
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Not sure how there is anything "smart" about this plan.

First... who is in this "research" group that WB supposedly went to? There are people that want to pay more money to have a disc that plays both formats? Why? Even if you own two players that play each format (or the vaporware that is a dual format player that will completely outprice these confused consumers), you're going to watch it in both players? Really?

"Didn't we watch this last night?"
"Nope. Last night we watched the HD-DVD version. Tonight we're going to watch the Blu-Ray version!"

Not that I'd watch both versions anyway, but these are WB discs we're talking about, too! The encoding is going to be exactly the same in both versions! Limiting the Blu-Ray side to 25GB won't really change anything for WB discs... which is why it's an option for them. Fox or any studio that actually USE more than 25GB of space might not be so willing to go this route.

Second... people still aren't going to confused? If they put HD-DVD on one side and Blu-Ray on another, aren't these same people going to have to know which end is up when they stick it in the player? If they can figure that out, they could've figured out which disc they needed to buy in the first place!

If people are confused, it's more likely due to articles like this one that can't even get basic facts straight. There is so much misinformation going around about these two formats and there doesn't seem to be anybody that knows the "facts" outside of forums like this one.
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post #21 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 05:55 AM
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I cant believe I woke up to this news. HD-DVD is doing fine and doesn't need this. Thanks a lot WB for higher prices and different cases. This will be a Netflix nightmare as well.
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post #22 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 06:03 AM
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The good news coming from this announcement and the LG dual player announcement is the fact that studios & CE manufacturers view HD-DVD as a viable force that cannot be ignored. Combine that with the fact that Circuit City (until recently the biggest anti-HD-DVD company around) is now actually selling the Toshiba A2 in their stores, and it leads to an obvious conclusion -- Blu-Ray is not winning anything and public opionion has swayed. If Fox and Disney continue their exclusive support of BD throughout 2007, they will certainly be looked upon with disdain and will take even more heat for their stubborness.

The bad news, however, is that HD-DVD (and BD, for that matter) releases will most certainly suffer from new limitations found in these discs. It's obvious that BOTH versions will not be dual-layered, if any at all. This makes capacity a major issue. What about the Combo disc that studios found so intriguing? I'm sure they won't be putting three layers on a disc anytime soon...and if they did, what the hell would it cost?!? As previously mentioned, what about the color of the case? A minor point, to be sure, but this will become even more confusing for a general public that is already scratching their collective heads with this format war to begin with. How do you fit extras for both formats on one disc, along with the lossless tracks and HD picture? What glitches may result in fusing all these layers together with different disc structures? Too many variables to consider here. Maybe it will work seamlessly, but I have my doubts that something won't suffer. It would be so much easier if every studio went neutral & let the public decide, but I think everone knows that HD-DVD would eclipse BD almost overnight with this scenario.
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post #23 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 06:03 AM
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This is not the solution! Consumers are confused as it is. Definitely 180 degrees off from what they should be annoucing...the END OF BLU-RAY SUPPORT...
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post #24 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 06:57 AM
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I agree that this is no solution in that it will just prolong this format war even longer. I also see no way for these hybrid discs to be as cost effective as Blu-ray or HD-DVD discs. Beleive me, I would rather have HD-DVD be victorious then to have hybrid discs.

If this technology wins, the Consumer loses.

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post #25 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by beatboy77 View Post


If this technology wins, the Consumer loses.

~Josh

Ah... but their "research" tells them that is what the consumer wants. Consumers want as many different formats as possible on one disc... whether they can play them or not.

I imagine they poll a group of 8 year olds. Tomorrow's announcement will be the HD-DVD/VideoNow combo.
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post #26 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 07:10 AM
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I almost spit coffee out my nose reading this.

The complexity and expense of manufacturing a disc like this sounds unreal.

If Warner is serious about doing this, why don't they just release a TWO DISC SET?? One disc being a BD50/25 and the other a HD-30. The cost would probably be less than releasing some exotic hybrid with BD on one side and HD on the other?

Blu-ray and HD DVD supporter.
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post #27 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 07:18 AM
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If Warner is serious about doing this, why don't they just release a TWO DISC SET??

If you had an HD player and your friend a BR player, you'd split the discs but only pay once. The studio ideal is more along the lines of "pay, then pay, then pay... oh, and pay again, and pay..." so they'd not have you sharing.
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post #28 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 07:24 AM
 
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I was reading this earlier and my questions are:

1) Does this mean no BD/HD DVD/DVD? What happened to that?

2) I assume these will be even pricier than combos?

3) Will the BD side have the scratch-proof coating? If so, is it then possible to use it on the HD DVD side as well?

Personally I think it might just confuse people more, but I guess it's a good thing.
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post #29 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 07:26 AM
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I hope this will push Disney and Fox into doing the same, but I will NOT pay a dime over $27.99 for an HD DVD
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post #30 of 54 Old 01-04-2007, 07:34 AM
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I think this is a great idea. I hope this allows a few other studios to release HD-DVD and I hope the keep prices reasonable.

Toshiba HD-XA2
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