which format is truley better? - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HD4lif3 View Post

My 1st post here, couldn't help it but have to chime in.

This is a freaking silly question asking question like this just like asking GM better than FORD ? or TOYOTA better than HONDA?...

Hello anyone ever heard of:

"beauty in the eyes of beholder"

Good luck, this question never get anywhere, you never get the awnser.


No kidding. I've held off responding but this question posted here is like writing to Ford asking which is better - GM or Ford.

Silly. Do the research. Don't ask people who are HD DVD fans/supporters of HD DVD for the answer.
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post #152 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 01:25 PM
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These threads are retarded. It's such an opinion. Reading the fanboyism of the format war irritates me. I don't see why this discussion needs to come up so often. Get what looks and sounds better to you, and be happy.

Xbox Live & PSN: talyler
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post #153 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 01:44 PM
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Owning both but only buying HD DVD movies I am very content with HD DVD, just the fact it has everything it promised from the start is excuse enough. PQ is amazing and has been since day one and the audio is great as well. The real kicker is the movie selection from big budget blockbusters to small independent films, HD DVD has them all.
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post #154 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 01:46 PM
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I own both and this war kinda reminds me of what I though of the original XBOX when compared to the PS2. The PS2 always had more games than the XBOX, but the XBOX always had the stellar titles. Quality over quantity. This is why I find myself watching HD-DVD movies more often that Blu-Ray.
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post #155 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 02:26 PM
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The one that wins.
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post #156 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 02:39 PM
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Green Ray
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post #157 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by talyler View Post

These threads are retarded. It's such an opinion. Reading the fanboyism of the format war irritates me. I don't see why this discussion needs to come up so often. Get what looks and sounds better to you, and be happy.

That sounds like some of the best advice I've seen to date.
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post #158 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MauneyM View Post

Easy there - I never said that there was no difference between lossy and lossless. Go back and read what I wrote. I am an audiophile first, so I am a BIG fan of lossless encodes. And, yes, I would prefer that BOTH formats adopt lossless encoding as the de facto standard. If/when I go dual-format (and I suspect it's only a matter of time before there's a BD player at $149 or less), I will ALWAYS default to whichever format gives me a lossless audio option.

My point was that if you compare the same master encoded in uncompressed PCM and TrueHD, you WILL NOT hear a difference - they are bit-for-bit identical at the D/A.

Tell me again how there is an audio quality difference between a lossless encode on HD DVD and a lossless encode on BD? There isn't, period.


What I said was:

In this I was responding to the BD fan-boys who continue to try to make the case that uncompressed PCM is somehow superior to lossless encoding. This is BS, pure and simple. Even if there were a miniscule audible difference based on the amount of processing time being taken up by the decoding step, you'd never hear it in any but the most highly-refined room.

FWIW, I do have a treated room and a system that makes use of lossless sound; I definitely can hear a difference between DD, dts, and TrueHD. I will also agree with you that there is no reason that the studios shouldn't be taking advantage of these features on every HD release, and neither format has managed to get this to be the defaul standard. However, I will disagree that a TrueHD release on BD will sound any better than a TrueHD release on HD DVD - they will be identical, except for any differences that may be caused by the player or pre-amp decoder.

Totally My fault I'm sorry I did read your post incorrectly, I thought you said lossless and PCM not lossless vs. PCM

Apologies
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post #159 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnsteph10 View Post

tsb,

I like how you forget to mention that BD's peak bandwidth drops even more using PCM, a space hog. Why does BD use it? = because they are a hodgepodge of requirements with a bunch of players that support few features.

If you are going to claim to be format neutral -- which you, obviously, are not -- you need to act like it, not just say you are in your signature.

So far, the only thing you manage to do is to troll in the HD DVD forums and spread misinformation.

Ditto
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post #160 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 06:02 PM
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BD's peak video bandwidth does not drop when using LPCM. 48Mbps - 6.9Mbps = 41.1Mbps. Video rate max is 40.0.

Please use the science not the FUD.

When I said most titles are mediocre I was referring to BOTH formats in case anyone is confused. I said "HD" not "HD DVD". We can have something better on both formats!

As the sig says........
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post #161 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 11:44 PM
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I own both formats, well over 100 hd dvd and 70 or so blu-ray. I have displays that do 720p, 1080i and 1080p and a reciever that handles the lossless codecs as well as 5.1 PCM.

"Better" is indeed subjective. Quality differs much more from movie to movie than it does format to format.

Accd to various posts from insiders the AQ is going to become mostly a moot issue as BD studios will move away from PCM toward lossless codecs and HD DVD studios will also add more TruHD to discs alongside the DD+ as more receivers come to market and get into circulation that can even take advantage of the audio formats.

Interactivity will also become more moot as BD Java comes online and catches up to hd dvd, although the mandatory internet connectivity of hd dvd could make a difference.

BD has max capacity advantage and max bitrate advantage. I honestly can't see or hear any difference of note between the best of BD and best of HD titles so it's difficult for me too assign to many "better points" to that difference but it has to be worth a few.

It also shouldn't be forgotten however that some percentage of blu-ray movies will be produced on 25Gig where and hd dvd would be on 30Gig. With cost advantage always going to 25Gig it is debateable what that percentage will be if there is no format war for BD studios to consider and/or when smaller content providers have to choose.

Blu-ray is not going to deliver a capacity advantage across all content but more likely to be across the bigger movies where 50gig is used, again for whatever practical difference that proves to be worth in movie quality. In this area for the mid and lower range content that will not always use the highest specs we can have DD 5.1 in use at a lower bitrate than the max bitrate DD 5.1 used in hd dvd.

Of course on this board most comments tend to compare only the top content rather than what occurs on average content and will occur in the future when more smaller release content, TV etc. is put to HDM and cost cutting occurs. Minimum specs matter too.

Finally there is the fact that only hd dvd can offer discs that play in both high def players and standard dvd players (for that matter even in blu-ray players). I imagine if we had more "J6P" average consumers posting in these boards that little feature would show up a bit more often among the "which is better" bullet points.

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post #162 of 167 Old 08-19-2007, 11:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akbungle View Post

This is a big load of BS to say you need the rest of these things in order to tell a difference. What i've finally come to find is this is a real quality difference between the two formats so the HD DVD fanboys are pretend it does not matter. I'm guessing 90% of these same people have not heard a PCM/lossless soundtrack. People hook up your 5.1 outputs and fall in love!

With 55% Blu having PCM/lossless and HD DVD having 15% PCM/lossless I guess if I were a total Fanboy (not directed at MauneyM specifically but many posts here) I would pretend that didn't matter too.

There's a logical reason why BD has more LPCM tracks. When a format/standard "mandates" codecs it guarantees the studios that every player in production will support it. So, let's first look at BD's mandated Audio Codec from best to worst:

- LPCM
- DTS (1.5Mb/s)
- DD (604Kb/s)

As you can see BD only has ONE mandatory HD audio codec.

Now HD DVD's mandated Audio Codecs from best to worst:

- LPCM
- TrueHD
- DD+ (3.0Mb/s)
- DTS (1.5Mb/s)
- DD (504Kb/s)

As you can see HD DVD has THREE mandatory HD audio codec.

BD leaves less audio codec choices compared to HD DVD. Nearly all HD DVD's have DD+ that is much more superior to DTS and DD. Where as with BD LPCM is really the only choice most studios have for HD audio or the "next" best is regular DTS.

Anyone who's listened to DD+ audio knows how good this audio really sounds.

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post #163 of 167 Old 08-20-2007, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by angelo913 View Post

Nearly all HD DVD's have DD+ that is much more superior to DTS and DD.

At 1.5Mbps DD+ vs 640k DD I wouldn't argue with your claim, but at 640k DD+ vs 640k DD, Roger Dressler of Dolby has indicated that they are pretty much the same. And it wouldn't be accurate to say that "Nearly all HD DVDs have 1.5Mbps DD+" since Warner uses 640k DD+ for the most part.

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post #164 of 167 Old 08-21-2007, 07:14 PM
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Here is a quality that I have finally put to good use, tonight, I ordered some imported region-free HD DVDs. Now I will be watching Mr Bean's Holiday in my home on my 1080p HDTV before it opens here in the US and I will have Terminator 2 in my HD DVD collection despite it being a Blu-ray exclusive!

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
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post #165 of 167 Old 08-21-2007, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darinp2 View Post

At 1.5Mbps DD+ vs 640k DD I wouldn't argue with your claim, but at 640k DD+ vs 640k DD, Roger Dressler of Dolby has indicated that they are pretty much the same. And it wouldn't be accurate to say that "Nearly all HD DVDs have 1.5Mbps DD+" since Warner uses 640k DD+ for the most part.

--Darin

Darin is correct - DTS 1.5m detroys DD+ 640k.

2008: BD+ hacked... payback time for Warner, Fox and Disney!
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post #166 of 167 Old 08-21-2007, 08:36 PM
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Why can't Red-ray and HHDD DDVVDD BVD just get along?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_7SHRr408k
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post #167 of 167 Old 08-22-2007, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bourke View Post

Darin is correct - DTS 1.5m detroys DD+ 640k.

I didn't say that and there are definitely some in the industry who would disagree with that. My eyes are better than my ears and haven't done any testing myself, but I think that between even DTS at 1.5Mbps and DD (not the + type) at 640Mbps there are some different opinions out there. Between DD+ at 1.5Mbps and DD+ or DD at 640k, that should be more straightforward because the algorithms are more similar there.

--Darin

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