Whoa! What's Wonka? 480p???? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 38 Old 08-31-2007, 09:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi Def Digest gave the original Wonka 4 stars, so I figured aside from some grain and source limitations it'd be as good as Wonka gets. Unfortunately I bought it tonight and now I'm wondering if 2 versions are floating around.

On both the A2 and the 360 HD-DVD player there are horrible jaggies throughout. it looks like 480p, not anti aliased. It reminds me of the issues with perfect Strom. Definitely 1 star, not 4. In fact I put on the SD disc and it actually looks better. there's no more resolution, but at least there isn't star stepping on contrasty edges.

Did I get some sort of old pressing? Please tell me they don't consider this a Hi-Def title. ...and again, I am not talking about the source. Old movies can look great, grain, dust and all. This is a digital artifact problem mostly related to low actual resolution.

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post #2 of 38 Old 08-31-2007, 11:35 PM
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It's one of the filtered 1080i Warner discs. No proper version yet
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post #3 of 38 Old 08-31-2007, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

It's one of the filtered 1080i Warner discs. No proper version yet

Won't this be mentioned in the Hi Def Digest?
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post #4 of 38 Old 08-31-2007, 11:45 PM
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Not if the reviewer doesn't see it. He gave Traffic the same video score.
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post #5 of 38 Old 08-31-2007, 11:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECH View Post

Won't this be mentioned in the Hi Def Digest?


Things like that get by "professional" reviewers all the time.

I always thought that this title suffered from the Warner vertical domain filtering problem, but many have not noticed the aliased edges with this particular title. I admit that I only really notice it on certain occasions, but there are times when it's really noticeable.

Perhaps gooki or xylon could get us some direct screen grabs. I'll provide them with timestamps of when it's an obvious problem if need be.
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post #6 of 38 Old 09-01-2007, 12:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kram Sacul View Post

Not if the reviewer doesn't see it. He gave Traffic the same video score.

I understand. They did make mention it wasn't as good as Citizen Kane.




Quote:
Originally Posted by MSmith83 View Post

Things like that get by "professional" reviewers all the time.

I always thought that this title suffered from the Warner vertical domain filtering problem, but many have not noticed the aliased edges with this particular title. I admit that I only really notice it on certain occasions, but there are times when it's really noticeable.

Perhaps gooki or xylon could get us some direct screen grabs. I'll provide them with timestamps of when it's an obvious problem if need be.

I (as well as others) would applicate that.
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post #7 of 38 Old 09-01-2007, 07:45 AM
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I know it looks nothing like some of the newer releases, but it's the BEST I have ever seen this movie look. I think the upgrade from SDVD is obvious. If you want to complain about a transfer on an older movie, I've got the Jerk in my collection.
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post #8 of 38 Old 09-01-2007, 08:15 AM
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Has it been verified somewhere this title has the vertical filtering problem? Please provide the source of this info.
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post #9 of 38 Old 09-01-2007, 08:49 AM
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Is there a list of titles with the filtering problem?
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post #10 of 38 Old 09-01-2007, 10:27 AM
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I watched it a couple of months ago and I don't recall any obvious PQ issues apart from rampant grain in some scenes, especially during the special effects, and a bit of a soft look.
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post #11 of 38 Old 09-01-2007, 12:30 PM
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maybe the reader was confused because of the two versions? the first being with gene wilder, "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory". and the latter, directed by tim burton "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory".

for me, if you just looked at pq/aq ratings and then ran off to a store and bought on impulse you may not have noticed which the review was for. or maybe grabbed one thinking it was the other.

i have the latter and i can say that it's quite a fun movie, though much differently presented than the original, and there's lots of colors and hd goodness in the presentation.

HD DVD:16 Blu Ray:0
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post #12 of 38 Old 09-02-2007, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I am not confused. I know both versions well. I am referring to Willy Wonka, not Charlie. I will try to take some pictures. For instance in the beginning of the film the edges of the titles all have jagged stair stepped edges, like a low res GIF. It looks like 720x480 source, but not filtered to blur the edges thus leaving them with heavy aliasing.

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post #13 of 38 Old 09-02-2007, 11:49 AM
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Is it bobbed like Full Metal Jacket and Perfect Storm? Are the pixels edges visible?

We need some screenshots. Maybe Xylon can help us.
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post #14 of 38 Old 09-02-2007, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Here this is the one -



and the review - So you know it's the same one. I can see disagreeing on a star or so, but it gets 4 here and I wouldn't give it a 1 as far as HD goes. It's not an HD source.

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/willy...tefactory.html

"this 1080p/VC-1 transfer of 'Willy Wonka' still looks good enough to lick. Colors are as sweet as cotton candy, and certainly improved over the standard-def release. Even the lushest reds, purples and greens free from bleeding and chroma noise. Detail is also raised up a notch, with Harper Goff's immense sets revealing finer details even in long shots, while even the smallest hairs on the purple pelt of Willy Wonka's coat are readily apparent"

We must be watching different versions. Source flaws aren't the issue here, it is a lack of resolution in the transfer. The upsampled SD-DVD does actually look better. Same detail, no jaggies.

and here is the trouble - this is at 1080p of course. Even the WB logo at the beginning has the aliasing. Maybe it only affects 1080p sets. If you have a 1080p set and get close you should see the same issue.






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post #15 of 38 Old 09-02-2007, 12:18 PM
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That's exactly what I'm seeing. It's surely the famous Warner vertical filtering problem expounded by a compressionist who used to post here on AVS. This problem creates the appearance of aliased edges. The HD DVDs of Lethal Weapon 1 and 2, Full Metal Jacket, The Perfect Storm, Enter the Dragon, and The Fugitive also suffer from the issue. Some other Warner titles may also suffer from it.
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post #16 of 38 Old 09-03-2007, 04:17 AM
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Actually, a ton of older Warner transfers suffer from these kind of jaggy artifacts, except up until recently it's only been seen on broadcast HD:



I'm worried about the upcoming releases of The Shining and Twilight Zone: The Movie as their HD broadcast versions had these problems.
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post #17 of 38 Old 09-03-2007, 04:36 AM
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It looks bobbed. Same pixelization of Full Metal Jacket and The Perfect Storm.

A real direct feed screenshot will likely confirm it. Let's hope in Xylon.
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post #18 of 38 Old 09-03-2007, 04:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Category 5 View Post

and the review - So you know it's the same one. I can see disagreeing on a star or so, but it gets 4 here and I wouldn't give it a 1 as far as HD goes. It's not an HD source.

http://hddvd.highdefdigest.com/willy...tefactory.html

It has been known for a while that professional reviews are totally unrealiable. That's why we have the picture quality thread here, where people can vote:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=856119

Just report there the movie as bobbed.
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post #19 of 38 Old 09-03-2007, 04:49 AM
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Quick. Take a picture of the Chocolate Bar!
Then put on The Punisher on Blu Ray.
There's nothing worse than that transfer.

I have Willy Wonka and The Chocolate Factory and it looks fine.
Im not a reviewer but some of you are complaining too much.

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post #20 of 38 Old 09-03-2007, 05:33 AM
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Bobbed and vertically filtered are two different things. The Warner HD-DVDs suffer from vertical filtering, not bobbing.

Enjoying the goodness that is Blu-ray and HD-DVD
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post #21 of 38 Old 09-03-2007, 09:09 AM
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I just watched it the other day via the 360 add-on and didn't experience the issues that you are describing. 360 was set to 1080i going to a Panasonic AE900 projector.

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post #22 of 38 Old 09-03-2007, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brad View Post

I just watched it the other day via the 360 add-on and didn't experience the issues that you are describing. 360 was set to 1080i going to a Panasonic AE900 projector.

-Brad

Supposedly it's only noticeable on a 1080p display. I have a Sanyo Z5 which like your AE900, is 720p...and all the filtered WB titles look great on it.

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post #23 of 38 Old 02-03-2008, 07:58 PM
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Wanted to resurrect this thread as I just got this title (before I read here). My fix for Enter the Dragon was to set resolution to 720p, but this doesn't seem to help as much with Wonka. I'm using a Panasonic AE1000u 1080p projector. Anyone else have a fix?
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post #24 of 38 Old 02-04-2008, 02:28 AM
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those that are having these problems with Wonka need to investigate their system, no such issues on my end, I am not sayng this isn't a filtered Warner title but it is a non issue, if you want to see big problems check out LW II

in fact Wonka is one of my demo picks to showoff a fabulous HD image and I have even used it for screenshots (gear and screen size in my signature):




-Gary
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post #25 of 38 Old 02-04-2008, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

those that are having these problems with Wonka need to investigate their system, no such issues on my end, I am not sayng this isn't a filtered Warner title but it is a non issue, if you want to see big problems check out LW II

in fact Wonka is one of my demo picks to showoff a fabulous HD image and I have even used it for screenshots (gear and screen size in my signature):

-Gary

I don't think most of the people in this thread have an advanced scaler like you do.
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post #26 of 38 Old 02-04-2008, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TreyS View Post

I don't think most of the people in this thread have an advanced scaler like you do.

Trey that could very well be the issue, something is bad wrong with those pics above, I (along with others I am sure) can vouch for certain that Wonka doesn't look like that on our end with your nose to the screen

that screengrab of Batman above is also something I have seen before that just shows up in actual screengrabs and not in real life, due to flagging or software issues etc. in the process to get the image

a little digging in past threads should come up with some info on this stuff

-Gary
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post #27 of 38 Old 02-04-2008, 12:56 PM
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Just wanted to put my 2 cents in here. When I played this on my A1 months ago, it had horrible stairstepping during the credits, to the point that I couldn't believe my eyes.

I hadn't played this in a while and put it in recently on my A30 (same setup) at 1080p/24 and all the stairstepping was gone. Credits, and movie, were clear as a bell.

I don't own any advanced scaler or anything. It was a pretty amazing difference. The only change was the HD DVD player. Same HDMI cable, same receiver, same projector.
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post #28 of 38 Old 02-04-2008, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Murrell View Post

that screengrab of Batman above is also something I have seen before that just shows up in actual screengrabs and not in real life, due to flagging or software issues etc. in the process to get the image

It's called horizontal filtering. The same kind that the HDM Warner titles have, including Willy Wonka. Yes, in real life.

I have no idea why you're not seeing them on your setup unless your scaler is doing some softening. The jaggies can be eliminated quite well that way.
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post #29 of 38 Old 02-04-2008, 06:36 PM
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Well, I'm definitely seeing the problems and the screengrabs above are pretty accurate. I tried 1080p/24 as well as 1080i and 720p on my A35. Problems on them all.
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post #30 of 38 Old 02-04-2008, 08:05 PM
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I don't know, I seem to trust Gary in these situations. He seems to know his ****. Even if it isn't the "popular" opinion.
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