Real reason behind DD+ on Transformers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 10:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Paramount simply determined there is not enough demand for it to warrant the extra costs at this time. I'm sure as more people get HDMI sound decoding receivers things will change.

Ya know what I love, is the guy with his HD-A2 hooked up via Optical complaining about DD+ when he has never even heard how good Dolby Digital Plus is!!!!!

You guys have got to give it a rest.



Oh yeah, and to all the Blu Fans complaining, give me a break. This says nothing of HD DVD, all this says is that Paramount, continues to not offer TrueHD on any format they produce discs in.

To mention capacity regarding this issue is a JOKE, it would EASILY fit True HD.
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post #2 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 10:52 AM
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This could have easily gone into one of the other 23956223498 threads on this topic.

"Set a man a fire, and he will stay warm for the night."
"Set a man on fire, and he will stay warm for the rest of his life."
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post #3 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

Ya know what I love, is the guy with his HD-A2 hooked up via Optical complaining about DD+ when he has never even heard how good Dolby Digital Plus is!!!!!

You guys have got to give it a rest.

I guess I don't get your point. The A2 crosscodes DD+ to DTS Surround at 1.5Mbps, the same bit rate as Paramount and Universal use for DD+ (much higher than the 640Kbps Warner uses for DD+.) The losses are at worst minimal.

Beyond that, I think Paramount and Universal DD+ sounds EXCELLENT! So if there is a gripe, I don't begin to understand it (unless the objection is to the original soundtrack itself -- which isn't the fault of the audio CODEC.) Warner DD+ works great for older lower fidelity sound tracks, but I'm no fan of 640Kbps DD+ for modern tracks.
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post #4 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 10:54 AM
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How is this the real reason behind DD+?
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post #5 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:08 AM
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Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (157mins) is a good example of 3 DD+ 5.1 with 1 Dolby TrueHD (16-bit), Plus IME Pic-in-Pic with SD video extras on a single disc.

Space/Bandwidth is not likely to be the main reason.
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post #6 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrevorS View Post

I guess I don't get your point. The A2 crosscodes DD+ to DTS Surround at 1.5Mbps, the same bit rate as Paramount and Universal use for DD+ (much higher than the 640Kbps Warner uses for DD+.) The losses are at worst minimal.

Beyond that, I think Paramount and Universal DD+ sounds EXCELLENT! So if there is a gripe, I don't begin to understand it (unless the objection is to the original soundtrack itself -- which isn't the fault of the audio CODEC.) Warner DD+ works great for older lower fidelity sound tracks, but I'm no fan of 640Kbps DD+ for modern tracks.

Bit rates being the same, still....Do you think there is a difference between the HD DVD Player converting DD+ to DTS and then listening via Optical.
Or hearing the direct DD+ via HDMI.

I've got to believe DD+ would sound superior.
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post #7 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by cadbury8 View Post

yep i was also expecting an explanation of why. i was also expecting a link of why as proof. Thread title needs to be changed to complaining about complainers or some such thing.

Oh forgot to mention that i am not bashing your opinion i am just stating that the thread title is misleading. thanks.

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post #8 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:25 AM
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So why did they put a PCM track on A Mighty Heart?
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post #9 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post




Oh yeah, and to all the Blu Fans complaining, give me a break. This says nothing of HD DVD, all this says is that Paramount, continues to not offer TrueHD on any format they produce discs in.

To mention capacity regarding this issue is a JOKE, it would EASILY fit True HD.

Won't the new Top Gun have True HD...?
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post #10 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:29 AM
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I own the Xbox HD DVD add-on so I can't even complain. Is my old audio receiver even capable of TrueHD audio?

I understand why some people care, but honestly have to say I don't. The best audio I've yet to hear in movies at this point has always been DTS and I rarely ever see movies with DTS soundtracks.
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post #11 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Mack View Post

Won't the new Top Gun have True HD...?

I hope so, but if not, its not a big deal, as its not a big deal with Transformers as well.

Its a nice bonus feature for the few that can enjoy it.
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post #12 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cadbury8 View Post

yep i was also expecting an explanation of why. i was also expecting a link of why as proof. Thread title needs to be changed to complaining about complainers or some such thing.

Oh forgot to mention that i am not bashing your opinion i am just stating that the thread title is misleading. thanks.

+1
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post #13 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Think about how long it took to get a High Definition Media Format, eventhough we've had HDTVs for years.

Well receivers that can decode High Definition uncompressed sound are brand new. So if it takes a few years before every HDM disc has TrueHD or DTS-MA I won't complain one bit.
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post #14 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

Think about how long it took to get a High Definition Media Format, eventhough we've had HDTVs for years.

Well receivers that can decode High Definition uncompressed sound are brand new. So if it takes a few years before every HDM disc has TrueHD or DTS-MA I won't complain one bit.

What about us who spent our hard earned money upgrading our setups for those new codecs? I'm rather upset about it, and can only conclude they did it because they wanted to save a couple $$'s.

I still don't understand the reasoning, such a huge blockbuster coming out with the best video but so-so audio.. Isn't this what HD media is all about? Why not marry that awesome video with awesome sound..

Is it really so much to ask?
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post #15 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:39 AM
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The Harry Potter box set is not going to contain TrueHD or PCM either.

XA1 + PS3 = HD bliss
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post #16 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

Think about how long it took to get a High Definition Media Format, eventhough we've had HDTVs for years.

Well receivers that can decode High Definition uncompressed sound are brand new. So if it takes a few years before every HDM disc has TrueHD or DTS-MA I won't complain one bit.

I currently have an Arcam processor, which doesn't allow for processing audio via HDMI. I use the coax out and can't take advantage of TrueHD etc. But, I would like the best possible uncompressed audio available on each disc...why? Because in the future (or near future) I would love to take advantage of the codec. I would hate to see re-releases based on remastered soundtracks (just like SD re-releases NOW with a DTS soundtrack). So why wouldn't we let Paramount know we want the best available today on the first release?....instead of a remastered re-release?

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post #17 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:41 AM - Thread Starter
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HERE IS PROOF, this is Alan Bell, CEO of Paramount, answering a question about space:

PCW: What if the multiple soundtracks and high-definition bonus materials won't fit on a single disc?

Bell: If there's an overflow of bonus material, we'll just go to another disc. That's not an issue for consumers. In some cases, they consider that it has more value. It's done routinely in DVD. Why put every single title on a high-capacity disc if it doesn't need it?

As you can see, the reason has nothing to do with space, as they are offering a Transformers 2 HD DVD Disc set, thus leaving plenty of room on Disc 1 for TrueHD.

The fact that they didn't include it has nothing to do with capacity, it has to do with a decision within the studio determining that it simply isn't needed.
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post #18 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

The fact that they didn't include it has nothing to do with capacity, it has to do with a decision within the studio determining that it simply isn't needed.

But isn't the question whether the consumer wants it?

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post #19 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by rboster View Post

But isn't the question whether the consumer wants it?

Many have always wanted DTS/DTS-ES on most of the Paramount/Warner DVDs but was it ever realised?

Is Fox fulfilling the requests of BD owners?

Ultimately, it is the studio who controls what is to be included.
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post #20 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Malec View Post

This could have easily gone into one of the other 23956223498 threads on this topic.

True dat.
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post #21 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rboster View Post

But isn't the question whether the consumer wants it?

The consumer will buy it anyway, so why put the effort and resources into readying up a TrueHD mix now - especially when so few can actually take advantage of it - when they can just charge you for a double dip with improved audio and more extras later?

We do not train to be merciful here.
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post #22 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rboster View Post

But isn't the question whether the consumer wants it?

The truth is, sad or not, the consumer doesn't want it.

Sure their may be 300 people posting on AVS forums that want it, but thats about it.

The HD-A2 and XBOX 360 AO owners (the majority of HD DVD owners) Don't give a rats ass.

And the soon to be owners of the Venturer and HD-A3 don't care either.

OH, and Blu Ray is even worse, because all the kids, kids meaning up to 30 years old, that own a PS3, REALLY REALLY REALLY don't care.
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post #23 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:54 AM
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People that don't want the best audio:
"Need To Give It A Rest".

People that start misleading/multiple/maligning threads:
"Need To Give It A Rest".

I'll think I'll:
"Give It A Rest".

"I wonder if any of the releases had slipcovers though."
"Are these comfirmed to have slipcovers?"
"They look nice in those slips."
"This slipcover looks too good to pass up."
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post #24 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:54 AM
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Star Trek:TOS will have True:HD.

A 40 year old TV show will get True:HD and Transformers will not.


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post #25 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike171979 View Post

The truth is, sad or not, the consumer doesn't want it.

Sure their may be 300 people posting on AVS forums that want it, but thats about it.

The HD-A2 and XBOX 360 AO owners (the majority of HD DVD owners) Don't give a rats ass.

And the soon to be owners of the Venturer and HD-A3 don't care either.

OH, and Blu Ray is even worse, because all the kids, kids meaning up to 30 years old, that own a PS3, REALLY REALLY REALLY don't care.

So what you're saying is, it's ok for a studio to exclude people that spent thousands upgrading their equipment because the vast majority don't care? So tell me then why are there so many titles coming out with TrueHD, but yet a huge blockbuster that could really use it isn't? Seems like a sure fire way to get some people upset (myself included)..
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post #26 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 12:03 PM
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It's disappointing, however while we would all like to see a Dolby TrueHD track on this disc, it isn't a deal breaker. I didn't find Hot Fuzz's lack of a TrueHD track too disturbing once I heard how good the DD+ track was.

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post #27 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 12:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Poolrad View Post

So what you're saying is, it's ok for a studio to exclude people that spent thousands upgrading their equipment because the vast majority don't care? So tell me then why are there so many titles coming out with TrueHD, but yet a huge blockbuster that could really use it isn't? Seems like a sure fire way to get some people upset (myself included)..

The bottom line fo them is money.

niche markets will never be the profit machines that the corporations want.

End of story.

Do NOT let the magic smoke out because it is impossible to put the magic smoke back in!!!!
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post #28 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 12:15 PM
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There is no excuse for Paramount to not include lossless audio on a title that has made over 300M domestically.

Absolutely assinine.

No way I would buy this now.

First Blades Of Glory and now Transformers. I see a trend starting. No lossless audio for Paramount.

Even Universal has recently started releasing True HD titles. Guess I'll just support the studios that understand hi-def audio is just as important of an upgrade as hi-def video.

This should really not be a surprise though. I remember when Titanic was released by Paramount as non-anamorphic on standard dvd. What a messed up studio.
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post #29 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 12:16 PM
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But Paramount is reportedly giving it for "Top Gun"
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post #30 of 106 Old 09-05-2007, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mlankton View Post

It's disappointing, however while we would all like to see a Dolby TrueHD track on this disc, it isn't a deal breaker. I didn't find Hot Fuzz's lack of a TrueHD track too disturbing once I heard how good the DD+ track was.


Funny thing is that Dobly Digital was the one to do the Post production sound on this film. Not the studios. Apparently Dolby Digital does not know thier own products one bit!!

Do NOT let the magic smoke out because it is impossible to put the magic smoke back in!!!!
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