Star Trek TNG remastered for HD- tests done - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 12:05 PM - Thread Starter
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It was in 2006 that The Digital Bits reported that tests were being done to bring Star Trek The Original Series to HD as retelecine/remastered with new effects. Now In 2007 The Digital Bits mentions that tests have been done for The Next Generation.


"They further revealed that tests had been done for a possible future Star Trek: The Next Generation - Remastered effort."
-Bill Hunt of The Digital Bits gave us his two cents at
San Diego Comic Con,
http://www.tvshowsondvd.com/newsitem.cfm?NewsID=7762


FYI:
Star Trek: The Next Generation
season 1

live action footage originally shot on 35mm film, telecined to standard definition video and edited from that (probably 1" analog originally then D2 or D1 tape).
and the final masters were on videotape - at 480i standard definition video.


My thoughts:
Since it was shot on film it is 'possible' to telecine the 35mm film to 1920x1080/24p and conform the show in this manner, with a 1.33:1 ratio as it was framed originally with black pillar bars.
the series cg special effects were created and output to standard definition video, which is the cause analog video artifacts from early seasons.
The visual effects 'could' be recreated and updated. This would be a considerable cost and many months of work and if Paramount does not see the return on investment by the public purchasing enough of the seasons in HD box sets then they will not do it.

the same goes for the other 2 ST series in the 1990s:
TNG was, and Deep Space Nine & Voyager are filmed in 35mm (primarily Kodak 7298, 500ASA) using Panavision cameras. The film is transferred to videotape, and post-production is done on video.


also see another thread on this from July over at hometheaterforum.com:
Star Trek TNG possible HD versions
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/...d.php?t=259966

as well as my post on the Star Trek TOS going HD-DVD.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...=902094&page=4


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post #2 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 12:09 PM
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what they need to do most of all is to release the movies. Yes, launching TOS is HUGE but I feel a bigger impact would be made if they released the movies.
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post #3 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 12:10 PM
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well my fav is deep space nine , but i would love tng on high def.

Sorry but the original series doesn't really do much to me , esp not at 130$ it would cost for just 1 season .
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post #4 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 12:21 PM
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It sounds as though TNG, DS9, and Voyager would all need revamped effects since all post production was done on video. Here's for hoping, but that would be a costly endeavor for Paramount.

Get me Enterprise on HD DVD and I'll be very, very happy

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #5 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brjahu View Post

what they need to do most of all is to release the movies. Yes, launching TOS is HUGE but I feel a bigger impact would be made if they released the movies.

KHHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNNNN

Sorry, Star Trek thread regulations, it had to be done.

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post #6 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 12:34 PM
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I don't think the info on Voyager is entirely correct. I remember that at least the last season was aired in widescreen HD on UPN. Possibly the last 2 or 3 seasons. I also remember reading once that the series was one of the first recorded on digital media in HD. I could be wrong, but maybe someone else remembers as well?

(and I hate to say I told you so, but where are all those people who said they would NEVER try to release TNG, Bablyon 5, etc on HD because they were video based?) I realize it will take a lot of work...but cleaning up TOS didn't? It was a mutilyear effort I believe. So why would they not take the same care for the other series if the TOS sells well? The time will be spent on different things for the newer shows (less dirt to clean up, etc), but it is still possible and I would venture to say profitable in the end. They just know it will be a LONG TERM INVESTMENT.

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post #7 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 01:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Surely Paramount will release all the Star Trek feature films in a consumer high definition video format. The marketing people will want to time it with the cinema release of the newest feature film in the Star Trek franchise directed by J.J. Abrams "Star Trek XI" released on 25 December 2008.
And of course in 2009 they will use the buzz generated from the end of the year release to get a couple of the films out that year as well as that film itself on DVD by Memorial Day 2009...

Really I saw Star Trek: The Motion Picture The Director's Edition on DVD and it is really not a good movie IMO. Very slow, too many shots of the exterior of the Enterprise with big music... Sure some of the other films yes, but I'm in no rush to see that first one again...
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post #8 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 01:56 PM
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TNG I really liked TNG. I'm not a Trekkie but TNG was very cool

Hopefully it doesn't cost $130/season
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post #9 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

It sounds as though TNG, DS9, and Voyager would all need revamped effects since all post production was done on video. Here's for hoping, but that would be a costly endeavor for Paramount.

Get me Enterprise on HD DVD and I'll be very, very happy

Same here, Enterprise on HD DVD would be great and I would buy it as my local station here didn't broadcast it in HD. I'd especially like to have the 3rd and 4th seasons of ENT in HD.

Of course I'm down for anything Trek in HD. TNG will be great as that's the Trek I grew up with and I think some episodes from DS9 would greatly benefit (especially some of those huge battles they did on that show).
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post #10 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 01:59 PM
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FWIW, my local big box electronic outlet has all of TOS and TNG being sold off at "bargain prices" in SD DVD editions. This is consistent with the imminent release of TOS, Season One in HD DVD. Could it be a prelude to TNG in a souped up release? I suppose the problem for me is that season one of TNG had rather too much of the paper mache rock backgrounds; it wasn't till season 2 or 3 that TNG really hit its stride. Those are worth buying in HD DVD.
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post #11 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 02:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PopcornReady View Post

FWIW, my local big box electronic outlet has all of TOS and TNG being sold off at "bargain prices" in SD DVD editions. This is consistent with the imminent release of TOS, Season One in HD DVD. Could it be a prelude to TNG in a souped up release? I suppose the problem for me is that season one of TNG had rather too much of the paper mache rock backgrounds; it wasn't till season 2 or 3 that TNG really hit its stride. Those are worth buying in HD DVD.

Actually, TOS and as PopcornReady mentioned in season 1 of TNG's cheap paper-maché sets.

That's part of the fun of seeing The Original Series from 1966-1969 in High Definition. While the show was produced on a budget using low-grade set construction/paint materials since it was shot on film and using the state-of-the-art for the late 1960s telecine's to color videotape the resolution was not great for the 480i NTSC system.
We get to see all of the resolution the film is offering and that includes seeing those sets.
The depth of field will limit it to some extent as to not distract too much from the foreground actors...
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post #12 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 02:22 PM
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I would buy every season of TNG they create, it's my favorite show of all time..
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post #13 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kspaz View Post

Really I saw Star Trek: The Motion Picture The Director's Edition on DVD and it is really not a good movie IMO. Very slow, too many shots of the exterior of the Enterprise with big music... Sure some of the other films yes, but I'm in no rush to see that first one again...

Blashpemy! One of the best Star Trek films, visually. It would make a great HDM edition.

Back off man, I'm a scientist.
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post #14 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gljvd View Post

well my fav is deep space nine , but i would love tng on high def.

DS9 would be an auto-buy for me. That's my favorite series by far. TNG is a great show, but DS9 has to be one of the first sci-fi series with such a complicated multi-season story arc.

I already have the TNG DVDs... There would need to be a *lot* of improvement to justify the re-purchase. If the effects looked like the Enterprise finale (the exterior "D" shots looked stunning) then I'd gladly plunk down the coin. The widescreen effect was just as impressive as the digital SFX. I distinctly remember looking at the grain on the conference table and getting ticked-off that my entire TNG collection is 480i and 4:3.

IMHO the remastered TOS shots don't look much better than the standard TNG-era ones, so I don't know how much effort they would make a second time around. Maybe they didn't want to get too aggressive since everything still needed to look like a period piece (or they were just cheap).
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post #15 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sharkcohen View Post

Blashpemy! One of the best Star Trek films, visually. It would make a great HDM edition.

I agree. It's also one of the best Trek films period. I think it is probably the only one that would meet the definition of classic sci-fi. It was a bit "out there" and had the biggest built-in sense of awe. Unfortunately modern ship movies are little more than, "How many ways can we show ship-to-ship combat?" TMP was also the only movie besides 4 that didn't involve a combat showdown. (Technically 5 didn't have the Enterprise firing... However, if anyone ever invents time-travel, the first order of business is that someone needs to go back and prevent that film from being made.)
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post #16 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

(and I hate to say I told you so, but where are all those people who said they would NEVER try to release TNG, Bablyon 5, etc on HD because they were video based?)

For precisely the same reasons I and others cited in this thread, Babylon 5 is extremely unlkely to be retrofitted into high-definition in our lifetimes. TNG is a far different beast that has been a huge cash cow for Paramount and certainly a much more lucrative proposition. In terms of B5, your "I told you so" is highly premature (not to mention juvenile).

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post #17 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 05:37 PM
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Only difference now is that there's virtually nil chance of ever seeing a BlueRay version.

A DS9 HD DVD remaster effort would also be a blind buy for me.I'm not sure about Next Gen though(the movies definiely)because of the fact that I doubt the series would hold up well if remastered in Hidef.DS9,Voyager and easily Enterprise would make for very nice HiDef remasters with the biggest expenses likely being redoing the effects as all three series were far more effects laden than Next Gen.You would figure that Paramount/CBS would definitely have Enterprise lined up for a HiDef conversion as that would be simple considering it was shot in widescreen with even a season shot in native HiDef and also having little to no need to redo any effects.
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post #18 of 70 Old 09-09-2007, 05:41 PM
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TOS is remastered from the 35mm negatives so if they're available for B5, TNG DS9, they should be forthcoming.

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post #19 of 70 Old 09-10-2007, 12:09 PM
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So nobody else remembers the last season(s) of voyager being in HD?


dub237...you're calling me juvenile? Have you seen 95% of the posts on AVS? And to be specific, I didn't say "I told you so"... I just think its funny when people just say things aren't possible for a variety of reasons and then they are almost always eventually proven wrong (how many people thought a I-AA school would ever beat a #5 ranked M*ch*g*n). Anything is possible when there are motivated people. Likewise anyhing can happen when there is money to be made. I remember reading somewhere that our technology doubles every 10 years...that's pretty amazing and opens up the door for a lot of opportunites, don't you think?

Anyway, saying "Never in our lifetime" is rather bold. Maybe sit back and think about the standard persons lifetime and what can happen. I'm not much of a history buff...but aren't there still a handful of people around that lived through WWI? I'd venture to say A LOT has happend between 1918 and today. Granted not everyone lives that long, but according to you, we will NEVER see TNG and Babylon 5 released again...ever. So better buy up those SD DVDs, its the last, best hope to ever see Babylon 5. Its also the best it will ever look. I'm just not buying it, sorry. I'm 30, and I believe these series will eventually be released in hi-definition (or something even higher) in my lifetime.

Granted I've read the the thread you've linked and don't understand the real nuts and bolts of it. I'm in the medical field, not the movie biz. I do get the jist that it will be time-consuming, dificult, and expensive. But all the studio has to project is making $1 more than they would spend on the entire project and it becomes worth it. I know that sounds ridiculous, but its a profit. And I'm willing to bet anything that they would make a heck of a lot more than that. Not to mention, are the next gen home video fromats from now on just going to ignore huge spans of TV shows, movies, etc. throughout history that weren't shot on "ideal" media? That just sort of sounds like a mistake to me.

I'm not picking a fight at all, I'm just listing my reasoning. We can agree to disagree.

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post #20 of 70 Old 09-10-2007, 12:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

dub237...you're calling me juvenile?

No, I'm calling that one comment juvenile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

Have you seen 95% of the posts on AVS?

I hope I haven't, else I'm in the only two or three areas of AVS that get any traffic, and I'm sure the rest of the site isn't just wasted bits and bytes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

And to be specific, I didn't say "I told you so"...

Yes, actually, you did. I even quoted the part where those words appeared.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

Anyway, saying "Never in our lifetime" is rather bold.

It's not bold, it's just a matter of knowing how much time and money goes into the TV production, post-processing, and special effects, really. Plus the loss of all of Foundation's assets, which I hadn't known about before but which makes me 100% certain that an HD revival is out of the question. If it happens within our lifetime, then you are perfectly justified in saying "I told you so".

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

Granted not everyone lives that long, but according to you, we will NEVER see TNG and Babylon 5 released again...ever.

No. According to me, we will never see the original Babylon 5 episodes redone in high-def. I don't know why you believe I'm insisting TNG won't be remastered. I've never said any such thing and in fact I think it's a reasonable prospect, given Trek's following and Paramount's resources.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

So better buy up those SD DVDs, its the last, best hope to ever see Babylon 5. Its also the best it will ever look. I'm just not buying it, sorry.

It's not a matter of what you buy or don't buy, it's a simple fact of economics. I won't stop you from holding out against hope, but others who read this thread should at least understand why it's such a long shot.

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post #21 of 70 Old 09-10-2007, 12:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

I don't think the info on Voyager is entirely correct. I remember that at least the last season was aired in widescreen HD on UPN. Possibly the last 2 or 3 seasons. I also remember reading once that the series was one of the first recorded on digital media in HD. I could be wrong, but maybe someone else remembers as well?

I think you might be thinking of ENTERPRISE. VOYAGER was shot on film in 1.33:1. I heard that there was talk of shooting the last few seasons in 1.78:1, but that was ultimately abandoned. I don't think UPN was broadcasting in HD until Season 2 or 3 of ENTERPRISE.

The first few episodes of ENTERPRISE were shot in 1.33:1, but it was decided before it premiered that 1.78:1 was the way to go in preparation for the inevitable HD broadcasts. Those initial episodes were "tilted-and-scanned" (or whatever), and aired in 1.78:1. Season 4 was shot digitally.

As for DS9 being the best television series of all-time, that entirely accurate. I'm only down with HD revisions to that series if executive producer Ira Steven Behr is.
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post #22 of 70 Old 09-10-2007, 12:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

I don't think the info on Voyager is entirely correct. I remember that at least the last season was aired in widescreen HD on UPN. Possibly the last 2 or 3 seasons. I also remember reading once that the series was one of the first recorded on digital media in HD. I could be wrong, but maybe someone else remembers as well?

(and I hate to say I told you so, but where are all those people who said they would NEVER try to release TNG, Bablyon 5, etc on HD because they were video based?) I realize it will take a lot of work...but cleaning up TOS didn't? It was a mutilyear effort I believe. So why would they not take the same care for the other series if the TOS sells well? The time will be spent on different things for the newer shows (less dirt to clean up, etc), but it is still possible and I would venture to say profitable in the end. They just know it will be a LONG TERM INVESTMENT.

True. Star Trek is the crown jewel in Paramount's television catalog. It's an evergreen - there's always an audience for it. If TOS bodes well in sales, we can expect to see the same treatment on the remaining versions of the franchise.
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post #23 of 70 Old 09-10-2007, 12:35 PM
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I'm not a huge Trek Fan but I really LOVED TNG, it was a GREAT series with impeccable writing for a TV show. The TV show had much better writing than any of the movies.

I would probably shell out a lot of money for a Proper HD version of TNG. Something tells me though unless they go back to the Original film elements for every episode we are not getting an HD version of TNG. I think the work involved to re do every episode and every special effect would cost way to much money for the amount of episodes that need to be done.

The Original series had a much shorter run on TV than TNG. I would like it but I think the costs involved would not validate releasing it in HD for Paramount.


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post #24 of 70 Old 09-10-2007, 12:35 PM
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I don't know if I can handle all the ST in high-def. The DVD box sets for ST TNG set me back ~$700 being that all of them came out ~$99/season. I've maybe watched 10 episodes total out of all those discs. It pissed me off to no end when they dropped the price of later seasons couple years ago, right after I finished buying the entire set.

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post #25 of 70 Old 09-10-2007, 12:50 PM
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Is it just me, or did anyone else notice Bill's slight bashing of HD DVD in the article? I find it amusing everytime he puts effort in there to do that, then goes overboard with something like "Inevitably, someone in the audience finally asked them directly about Blu-ray Disc during the Q&A session that followed (and, interestingly, there was a smattering of cheers and applause from the audience when the question was raised).". You know, as if the HD DVD version of ANYTHING just gets boos and whatnot, and the BR version ALWAYS gets the applause. He's a very funny, little man.
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post #26 of 70 Old 09-10-2007, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoolintheRain View Post

So nobody else remembers the last season(s) of voyager being in HD?

Voyager was always SD and 4:3, through the last season that ended in 2001.

The next show, Enterprise, was HD, but it wasn't even until the middle of the third season, in 2003, that UPN started broadcasting it in HD. The HDNet reruns are all HD, however.
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post #27 of 70 Old 09-10-2007, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by kspaz View Post

The visual effects 'could' be recreated and updated.

This is what bugs me, the "revising" of the shows. Why can't they just do a remaster of the film, and recreate the same effects at HD resolution, so we can watch the show as we remember it?

I mean, we're probably talking about a $1,000 HD set, and it would be nice to at least be able to sell the $650 SD set to finance it.
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post #28 of 70 Old 09-10-2007, 06:26 PM
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Sorry but the original series doesn't really do much to me , esp not at 130$ it would cost for just 1 season .

I'm the opposite. TOS rocks! The show was fun and had that naive optimistic 60s outlook.

TNG was drab in comparison. Too much of another day at the office vibe filled with TrekBabble whenever they got into a tight spot.

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post #29 of 70 Old 09-11-2007, 08:36 PM
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I can live without TNG in HD, the show looks like it was shot in someone's garage, and mom helped make the set. Seeing this in HD can only make it worse.

First Contact in 1080p would be epic though.
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post #30 of 70 Old 09-11-2007, 09:55 PM
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I couldn't remember for sure, so I just looked it up. Season 3 was on film.
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